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GOD of ABRAHAM is the CREATOR ("DESIGNER")

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tosca1

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This thread is related to the other topic that was recently created, IS THERE A GOD?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/232358-there-god.html


The purpose of this thread is to provide evidences that the God of Abraham (the God of the Bible) is the same God that Created the Universe.
He is also what is called, the Designer.

The Bible - which is authored by the Creator - will be heavily cited.




The CREATOR has intimate knowledge of His Creation. How can He not?
If He was the One who designed and created....of course, He knows everything about it!


The heading of the beginning of the Bible, is about........ the beginning. It simply states: The Beginning
The very first statement of the Old Testament - Genesis 1 - is an official declaration by the Creator.

Genesis 1

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


That first statement informs us that:
1. the universe had a beginning
2. it was Created
3. the Creator is God. God of Abraham. The Biblical God.


Science had discovered and confirmed the universe had a beginning. They've discovered it only sometime in the 1990's, please correct me if I'm wrong about the date......and yet, that fact was declared thousands of years ago (verbally passed by "primitive" ancient men for who knows how long before it got finally written down, on paper), without the use of any technology, I must add.


Beginning of the Universe - Science Confirms
Pure scientific findings consistently point to only one conclusion: the universe had a singular start, an explosion, where everything we know--the universe, time, space, scientific laws we observe--all had a beginning.

Beginning of the Universe - Beginning of Time


Where did that vital information come from?
According to the ancient folks who'd verbally passed that vital info, it came from God. The Creator.
 
Which does not prove anything... still.
 
Why should we take these ancient men seriously, let alone believe, about their claim that those declaration came from God?


Because science - thanks to modern technology - had only recently discovered and confirmed what was stated thousands of years ago, by men without any technology to assists them! They claim the info came from the One who Created the universe!

Wouldn't it be common if you were uneducated and unsophisticated, to look up in the sky, and assume it's always been there forever?

And yet, they claimed the Creator of the universe had said, there was a beginning! And that was confirmed by science only recently!
 
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No, science has not confirmed a creator or God. If anything they theorize a beginning of this universe while others theorize a more infinity model. Regardless, no one from science has "confirmed" a creator nor any association to a God as described by any religion.

Again, your beliefs do not qualify as "confirmed" God.
 
tosca1 said:
Sorry, but I'll be ignoring attempts at "rebuttals" that are without any substance.
Click to expand...

That is the point, you have no substance to your claims. Never have.
 
Citing the bible to prove that the bible is correct is like using the word to define itself. Quite silly.
 
Yawn.

That has more substance than anything the poster has ever proposed.

Let alone evidenced.

25 threads or 50 threads on an untenable position still amount to zilch.
 
Now, the other thread, IS THERE A GOD, gives evidences that point to creation. I'll go in-line with those evidences as they get presented, and give you evidences that show the Creator/Designer is the God of Abraham.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/232358-there-god.html


Again, there will be that same CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE to take into serious consideration - meaning that corroborating evidences give reinforcement to one another, thereby providing a very strong effect to the argument being presented.

At the end, you'll have to deal with the fact that the CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE, is, by itself, a very powerful argument.
 
There is zero, and I mean zero, evidence of a Creator nor is there evidence of a God. There is no accepted peer-reviewed model from any flavor of science that concludes with "the Creator/Designer is the God of Abraham." Not a single model from any science based academia, not a one.
 
tosca1 said:
This thread is related to the other topic that was recently created, IS THERE A GOD?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/232358-there-god.html

The purpose of this thread is to provide evidences that the God of Abraham (the God of the Bible) is the same God that Created the Universe.
He is also what is called, the Designer.

The Bible - which is authored by the Creator - will be heavily cited.

The CREATOR has intimate knowledge of His Creation. How can He not?
If He was the One who designed and created....of course, He knows everything about it!
Click to expand...

I find that you use these two sentences right after each other highly amusing. Quoting the bible is not scientific evidence and neither is stating that the universe had a beginning. Science has not proven the universe has a beginning, though that is hardly relevant. Several religions, such as Hinduism, predate Judaism and made "the universe was created" claim before you. Does that mean that Hinduism is the one true religion because they beat you to it?
 
Refer to OP of http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/232358-there-god.html


FINE TUNING to make earth fit for life





Isaiah 45:12
It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.[/B]


Isaiah 45:18
For this is what the Lord says—
he who created the heavens,
he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth,
he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty,
but formed it to be inhabited


Hebrews 1:10
And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands


2 Peter 3:5
For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,


Psalm 115:16
The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth he has given to the children of man.


Jeremiah 27:5
“It is I who by my great power and my outstretched arm have made the earth, with the men and animals that are on the earth, and I give it to whomever it seems right to me.


Proverbs 8
25
Before the mountains had been shaped,
before the hills, I was brought forth,
26
before he had made the earth with its fields,
or the first of the dust of the world.


Nehemiah 9:6
“You are the Lord, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.




Among all those verses, this is a stand out because of that statement about the Law of God being perfect.
Since it talks about the heavens, it is within context that the "Law" referred to here would the what we now know as physical laws in the finely-tuned universe.


Psalm 19:1
The Law of the Lord Is Perfect
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.

19 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

 
tosca1 said:
... within context that the "Law" referred to here would the what we now know as physical laws in the finely-tuned universe.
Click to expand...

There is your ultimate mistake, the bible nor any text included in it was intended to be a book of science. No one back then even knew what systems of process (science) was in any sense. Every single one of those passages was written by men, telling a story having nothing to do with "physical laws."
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I find that you use these two sentences right after each other highly amusing. Quoting the bible is not scientific evidence and neither is stating that the universe had a beginning.
Click to expand...

I don't know why you think there was any claim at all that "quoting the Bible is, scientific evidence." I surely didn't claim that.


The message is more like, SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES SUPPORT THE BIBLE.



Several religions, such as Hinduism, predate Judaism and made "the universe was created" claim before you. Does that mean that Hinduism is the one true religion because they beat you to it?
Click to expand...


No. It only meant that (Hinduism) had gotten it all wrong about creation.

Heart of Hinduism: Creation



And it's even questionable if it's defined as a religion at all.

In some ways Hinduism is the oldest living religion in the world, or at least elements within it stretch back many thousands of years. Yet Hinduism resists easy definition partly because of the vast array of practices and beliefs found within it. It is also closely associated conceptually and historically with the other Indian religions Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Unlike most other religions, Hinduism has no single founder, no single scripture, and no commonly agreed set of teachings. Throughout its extensive history, there have been many key figures teaching different philosophies and writing numerous holy books. For these reasons, writers often refer to Hinduism as 'a way of life' or 'a family of religions' rather than a single religion.

BBC - Religions - Hinduism: At a Glance




And they made the mistake of attributing to, and worshipping all sorts of gods.

It has been said that Hinduism is a religion of 330 million Hinduism gods. Sri Ramakrishna, a prominent Hindu saint once wrote, "There can be as many Hindu Gods as there are devotees to suit the moods, feelings, emotions and social backgrounds of the devotees." So in some ways Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. There is an exceedingly wide variety of gods to choose from to worship with statues and symbols to pay homage before. If one wants to pray for acquiring knowledge and understanding, he would pray to the god, Sarasati, for example. One might pray to the god, Moksha, to obtain God's grace. Many Hindus worship their own village god or goddess.

Hinduism Gods



Hinduism isn't the only religion older than Abrahamic religions. Sumerian, is the often, older religion given in debates.
They all made the same mistake, though. They worshipped other gods.
Thus it became a necessity for God (The Creator) to establish His presence and straighten things out......by giving the Scriptures.
At least, that's what I get from this.
 
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There is NO evidence. Accumulation of nothing still amounts to nothing.
 
OrphanSlug said:
There is your ultimate mistake, the bible nor any text included in it was intended to be a book of science. No one back then even knew what systems of process (science) was in any sense. Every single one of those passages was written by men, telling a story having nothing to do with "physical laws."
Click to expand...


The mistake is in the way you misunderstand what is said.


The Bible is not a science book.....I don't claim it to be a science book!

HOWEVER...........science supports the evidence(s) I'm giving. Big difference.
 
OrphanSlug said:
There is zero, and I mean zero, evidence of a Creator nor is there evidence of a God. There is no accepted peer-reviewed model from any flavor of science that concludes with "the Creator/Designer is the God of Abraham." Not a single model from any science based academia, not a one.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding me? Read what you said again.

If there were such a conclusion......that means science must've found proof that God exists! :mrgreen:

There wouldn't be a relevance to the topic, IS THERE A GOD? :lol:
 
tosca1 said:
The mistake is in the way you misunderstand what is said.


The Bible is not a science book.....I don't claim it to be a science book!

HOWEVER...........science supports the evidence(s) I'm giving. Big difference.
Click to expand...

No it still doesn't. No difference.
 
tosca1 said:
The mistake is in the way you misunderstand what is said.


The Bible is not a science book.....I don't claim it to be a science book!

HOWEVER...........science supports the evidence(s) I'm giving. Big difference.
Click to expand...

That a false statement, there is no science to support your conclusions.
 
tosca1 said:
Are you kidding me? Read what you said again.

If there were such a conclusion......that means science must've found proof that God exists! :mrgreen:

There wouldn't be a relevance to the topic, IS THERE A GOD? :lol:
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with what I said, there is no accepted science to support your conclusions. None.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Nothing wrong with what I said, there is no accepted science to support your conclusions. None.
Click to expand...
We really need to brush up on our tosca-speak. I suspect that not even Logicman really understands her.:mrgreen:
 
tosca1 said:
This thread is related to the other topic that was recently created, IS THERE A GOD?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/232358-there-god.html


The purpose of this thread is to provide evidences that the God of Abraham (the God of the Bible) is the same God that Created the Universe.
He is also what is called, the Designer.

The Bible - which is authored by the Creator - will be heavily cited.




The CREATOR has intimate knowledge of His Creation. How can He not?
If He was the One who designed and created....of course, He knows everything about it!


The heading of the beginning of the Bible, is about........ the beginning. It simply states: The Beginning
The very first statement of the Old Testament - Genesis 1 - is an official declaration by the Creator.

Genesis 1

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


That first statement informs us that:
1. the universe had a beginning
2. it was Created
3. the Creator is God. God of Abraham. The Biblical God.


Science had discovered and confirmed the universe had a beginning. They've discovered it only sometime in the 1990's, please correct me if I'm wrong about the date......and yet, that fact was declared thousands of years ago (verbally passed by "primitive" ancient men for who knows how long before it got finally written down, on paper), without the use of any technology, I must add.


Beginning of the Universe - Science Confirms
Pure scientific findings consistently point to only one conclusion: the universe had a singular start, an explosion, where everything we know--the universe, time, space, scientific laws we observe--all had a beginning.

Beginning of the Universe - Beginning of Time


Where did that vital information come from?
According to the ancient folks who'd verbally passed that vital info, it came from God. The Creator.
Click to expand...

When hypothesizing the origins of the Universe you only have two options. Either the Universe began, or it has always been. Without scientific evidence it's basically a coin flip. Some religious and ancient thinkers chose to believe it had a beginning, others that it had always been. That the early Abrahamic cult also chose to believe in a beginning proves nothing--they had a significant amount of company in that belief.
 
Sherman123 said:
When hypothesizing the origins of the Universe you only have two options. Either the Universe began, or it has always been. Without scientific evidence it's basically a coin flip. Some religious and ancient thinkers chose to believe it had a beginning, others that it had always been. That the early Abrahamic cult also chose to believe in a beginning proves nothing--they had a significant amount of company in that belief.
Click to expand...


According to scientists there is evidence that the universe had a beginning!


"All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago." Stephen Hawking The Beginning of Time
The Beginning of Time - Stephen Hawking


"Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago." Tom Parisi, Northern Illinois University
In Search of the Beginning


"As a result of the Big Bang (the tremendous explosion which marked the beginning of our Universe), the universe is expanding and most of the galaxies within it are moving away from each other." CalTech THE INFRARED UNIVERSE - The Early Universe


"The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that the Universe began with a "Big Bang" ~15 billion (15,000,000,000 or 15E9) years ago." "The Big Bang theory is the most widely accepted theory of the creation of the Universe." Dr. van der Pluijm, University of Michigan
Global Change 1: The Evolution of the Universe


"The present location and velocities of galaxies are a result of a primordial blast known as the BIG BANG. It marked: THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE! THE BEGINNING OF TIME!" Terry Herter, Cornell University Lecture 29: Cosmology


"The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something." Janna Levin, Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at Cambridge University
Sample Chapter for Levin, J.: How the Universe Got Its Spots: Diary of a Finite Time in a Finite Space.


"Most scientists agree that the universe began some 12 to 20 billion years ago in what has come to be known as the Big Bang (a term coined by the English astrophysicist Fred Hoyle in 1950." University of Illinois http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Cyberia/Cosmos/InTheBeginning.html


"A large body of astrophysical observations now clearly points to a beginning for our universe about 15 billion years ago in a cataclysmic outpouring of elementary particles. There is, in fact, no evidence that any of the particles of matter with which we are now familiar existed before this great event." Louis J. Clavelli, Ph.D., Professor of Physics, University of Alabama http://bama.ua.edu/~lclavell/pages/ssu.html


"THE UNIVERSE AND ALL OF SPACE ARE EXPANDING FROM A BIG BANG BEGINNING" Center for Cosmological Physics, University of Chicago
http://cfcp.uchicago.edu/education/resources/know/seven-things.pdf




Cosmological data shows that the universe had a beginning, when space, time, matter and energy exploded out from the cosmic event known as the Big Bang.
That supports what the Bible had described - that God spread out the heavens, and visible parts were made from the invisible.

Hebrews 11:3
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
 
tosca1 said:
According to scientists there is evidence that the universe had a beginning!


"All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago." Stephen Hawking The Beginning of Time
The Beginning of Time - Stephen Hawking


"Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago." Tom Parisi, Northern Illinois University
In Search of the Beginning


"As a result of the Big Bang (the tremendous explosion which marked the beginning of our Universe), the universe is expanding and most of the galaxies within it are moving away from each other." CalTech THE INFRARED UNIVERSE - The Early Universe


"The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that the Universe began with a "Big Bang" ~15 billion (15,000,000,000 or 15E9) years ago." "The Big Bang theory is the most widely accepted theory of the creation of the Universe." Dr. van der Pluijm, University of Michigan
Global Change 1: The Evolution of the Universe


"The present location and velocities of galaxies are a result of a primordial blast known as the BIG BANG. It marked: THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE! THE BEGINNING OF TIME!" Terry Herter, Cornell University Lecture 29: Cosmology


"The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something." Janna Levin, Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at Cambridge University
Sample Chapter for Levin, J.: How the Universe Got Its Spots: Diary of a Finite Time in a Finite Space.


"Most scientists agree that the universe began some 12 to 20 billion years ago in what has come to be known as the Big Bang (a term coined by the English astrophysicist Fred Hoyle in 1950." University of Illinois http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Cyberia/Cosmos/InTheBeginning.html


"A large body of astrophysical observations now clearly points to a beginning for our universe about 15 billion years ago in a cataclysmic outpouring of elementary particles. There is, in fact, no evidence that any of the particles of matter with which we are now familiar existed before this great event." Louis J. Clavelli, Ph.D., Professor of Physics, University of Alabama http://bama.ua.edu/~lclavell/pages/ssu.html


"THE UNIVERSE AND ALL OF SPACE ARE EXPANDING FROM A BIG BANG BEGINNING" Center for Cosmological Physics, University of Chicago
http://cfcp.uchicago.edu/education/resources/know/seven-things.pdf




Cosmological data shows that the universe had a beginning, when space, time, matter and energy exploded out from the cosmic event known as the Big Bang.
That supports what the Bible had described - that God spread out the heavens, and visible parts were made from the invisible.

Hebrews 11:3
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Click to expand...

Not a bit of this... as in nothing... points to proof of "the Creator/Designer is the God of Abraham."
 
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