• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Is There A God?[W:262, 890]

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
35,250
Reaction score
5,695
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This thread was created in response to Frank Apisa's request for me to provide evidences for the existence of God. I didn't get the chance to do a research actually.....and didn't gather all the evidences that can be presented. There will be numerous evidences given, and no doubt there will be attempts at rebuttals for each and every one at them. They're listed not in the order of any ranking.

But at the end of the day.....the main evidence that I'll give - there's no getting around it if we're going to use logic - is the fact that all the evidences for God that will be given, are "CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE."

Cumulative evidence(s) reinforces one another (evidences) thereby producing an effect stronger than any part by itself.
It's synonymous with, "corroborative evidence," which confirms, or adds to previous evidence.


So, after I'd given several evidences for the existence of God.....the last evidence I'd put on your doorstep will be the "package" that contains all the evidences as a whole.



Let me just deal a factual blow to atheism, just so to get it out of the way: atheism contradicts its own worldview by believing the universe has a natural cause despite the lack of observational evidence for such a belief.


Although there is no direct observational evidence as to the origin of the universe - no direct observational evidence as to how exactly it was created - we now have a good knowledge about the early history of the universe and the laws that govern it - thanks to science, and to advanced technology - which provide us with indirect evidence that a super-intelligent Agent designed the universe.
Intelligent Designers don't necessarily call the Designer, God......but followers of the Abrahamic religions, do.

Without further ado, here's the first evidence.



1. FINE-TUNING

The consistency of the physical law of the universe is evidence for having been planned/designed, and put in place.
Just the fact that we're situated in the suburbs of the Milky Way, where it's not crowded thus star collisions are rare, sort of reminds me of
the first rule for a successful business. LOCATION. LOCATION. LOCATION. :)


The nature of the universe is the best evidence for Design and how it came to be. One of the fundamental properties of the universe, dark energy (or the cosmological constant), was discovered late in the last century....and we still add to our knowledge as new studies continue.
The Big Bang - with its dramatic hyper inflationary expansion (cause of it is unknown), but it's required for life to be possible in the universe.
The masses of quarks that has to be fine-tuned in order to achieve a universe that contains any matter at all.
Then we have to consider the large-just right size of the universe - exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.
We have just the right laws of physics,too. Of course.

Although it would be possible that one or two constants might require unusual fine-tuning by sheer accident or chance, it would be virtually impossible that
all of them would require such fine-tuning.
There are some physicists who have indicated that any of a number of different physical laws would be compatible with our present universe. However, it is not just this current state of the universe that must be compatible with the physical laws. Even more exacting are the initial conditions of the universe in its initial stage, since even minor deviations would have completely disrupted the process.
For example, adding a grain of sand to the weight of the current universe would have no effect. However, adding even this small amount of weight at the beginning of the universe would have resulted in its collapse early in its infancy.


Have you noticed? All those above that explained about the origin of the universe have numerous evidences that support one another.
Yep. We're talking CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE again here, folks. Just by the first evidence given - it has its own cumulative evidences.

Having cumulative evidences is evident on various differing individual evidence(s) that will be given to you.

There is a system in place here that deals with evidences for God, by the obvious looks of it.
Most, if not all, evidences that will be given to you have cumulative evidences supporting each and every one of them.

I see a PATTERN! Which is another evidence for DESIGN. :)
 
Last edited:
Re: Is There A God?

Let me just deal a factual blow to atheism, just so to get it out of the way: atheism contradicts its own worldview by believing the universe has a natural cause despite the lack of observational evidence for such a belief.

Atheism isn't a worldview but rather a lack there of. Nor does it make any claim on the origin of the universe.
 
Re: Is There A God?

Atheism isn't a worldview but rather a lack there of. Nor does it make any claim on the origin of the universe.

The fact that you think the world was not created by a God.....is a worldview.
 
Re: Is There A God?

The fact that you think the world was not created by a God.....is a worldview.

No, it's a lack of one. It is like implying not believing in fairies or Santa Claus is a world view.
 
Re: Is There A God?

This thread was created in response to Frank Apisa's request for me to provide evidences for the existence of God. I didn't get the chance to do a research actually.....and didn't gather all the evidences that can be presented. There will be numerous evidences given, and no doubt there will be attempts at rebuttals for each and every one at them. They're listed not in the order of any ranking.

But at the end of the day.....the main evidence that I'll give - there's no getting around it if we're going to use logic - is the fact that all the evidences for God that will be given, are "CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE." ]

Thank you for this attempt, Tosca...you apparently put lots of work into it.

What I do not see, however, is any evidence for the existence of a god...whether as an individual item or as an accumulation of items that could be termed "cumulative evidence."

And while you said I asked for "evidence of the existence of a god"...I usually ask for UNAMBIGUOUS evidence of the existence of a god. If I didn't term it that way, I apologize.

As nearly as I can tell...there is no unambiguous evidence for the existence of a god...just as there is no unambiguous evidence that gods do not exist.

Anyone asserting "there is a GOD" or "there are no gods"...seems, to me, to be simply asserting a guess about the true nature of REALITY.

If you honestly think there are individual pieces of evidence that accumulate to unambiguous cumulative evidence...please name the single most compelling item...and we can discuss it individually.
 
Re: Is There A God?

No, it's a lack of one. It is like implying not believing in fairies or Santa Claus is a world view.

If you say so, okay. So you don't have a worldview. Noted.

Now, let's get back to the evidences for God.
 
Re: Is There A God?

Atheism isn't a worldview but rather a lack there of. Nor does it make any claim on the origin of the universe.

So...you think that atheism is a lack of a worldview????

Okay...different strokes, I guess.
 
Re: Is There A God?

Thank you for this attempt, Tosca...you apparently put lots of work into it.

What I do not see, however, is any evidence for the existence of a god...whether as an individual item or as an accumulation of items that could be termed "cumulative evidence."

And while you said I asked for "evidence of the existence of a god"...I usually ask for UNAMBIGUOUS evidence of the existence of a god. If I didn't term it that way, I apologize.

As nearly as I can tell...there is no unambiguous evidence for the existence of a god...just as there is no unambiguous evidence that gods do not exist.

Anyone asserting "there is a GOD" or "there are no gods"...seems, to me, to be simply asserting a guess about the true nature of REALITY.

If you honestly think there are individual pieces of evidence that accumulate to unambiguous cumulative evidence...please name the single most compelling item...and we can discuss it individually.

Are you saying that information provided by science are not true?
 
Re: Is There A God?

If there is a "God" it certainly is not the "God" of the bible.

Which is 100% man made invention.
 
Re: Is There A God?

If you say so, okay. So you don't have a worldview. Noted.

I never said anything like that. But rather Atheism isn't a world view.

Now, let's get back to the evidences for God.

Sure, present the actual, certifiable evidence for god instead of anecdotes and wishful thinking.

So...you think that atheism is a lack of a worldview????

That is because atheism is simply a lack of a belief. That is the definition of the word. I apologize that English defies you and Tosca.
 
Re: Is There A God?

And while you said I asked for "evidence of the existence of a god"...I usually ask for UNAMBIGUOUS evidence of the existence of a god. If I didn't term it that way, I apologize.

Then, you're not merely asking for evidence. You're asking for a proof.

You want the smoking gun.

Well....you know we don't have that irrefutable proof that shows the stamp that says, "Made by God." :)
 
Re: Is There A God?

Are you saying that information provided by science are not true?

I'm saying that I do not see anything you posted...as unambiguous evidence for the existence of a god.

Please point out the most compelling item in your list (which is difficult to discern) and we can discuss it. After that, we can discuss the next...until we actually have a "cumulative" mass of "evidence."

Honestly, I do not see ANY item I would consider evidence of the existence of a god.

Not a one.
 
Re: Is There A God?

If there is a "God" it certainly is not the "God" of the bible.

Which is 100% man made invention.

God, is God of the Bible.

That's for another topic, Jetboogieman. That too, has its own cumulative evidences. :)

Like I said.....there is that pattern.
 
Re: Is There A God?

Then, you're not merely asking for evidence. You're asking for a proof.

You want the smoking gun. Well....you know we don't have that irrefutable proof that shows the stamp that says, "Made by God." :)

No...I am not asking for proof.

I realize IF THERE IS A GOD that there is evidence of a GOD.

EVERYTHING would be evidence of a god.

But...we'd have to make the assumption or guess that a god exists.

So "trees" "rocks" "buffalo" "lakes" "lice" "paper" MAY BE all evidence of a god. But if there is no god...all those things are evidence of no god.

I am just asking for evidence that actually unambiguously POINTS TO the existence of a god.

What is you single most compelling item?
 
Re: Is There A God?

I'm saying that I do not see anything you posted...as unambiguous evidence for the existence of a god.

Please point out the most compelling item in your list (which is difficult to discern) and we can discuss it. After that, we can discuss the next...until we actually have a "cumulative" mass of "evidence."

Honestly, I do not see ANY item I would consider evidence of the existence of a god.

Not a one.

The most compelling answer would be all those individual evidence for design......CUMULATIVE EVIDENCES.......all lumped together as ONE!

So if you'll insist on one compelling evidence - I give you the CUMULATIVE EVIDENCES! You'll have to consider that as a whole.
If we're talking logic - surely you cannot disregard that glaring fact!
 
Re: Is There A God?

That is because atheism is simply a lack of a belief. That is the definition of the word. I apologize that English defies you and Tosca.

It is not the definition of the word.

It is one definition...and the one most often used by Internet atheists. But defining it that way flies in the face of reason.

Why "simply a lack of a belief?"
 
Re: Is There A God?

God, is God of the Bible.

That's for another topic, Jetboogieman. That too, has its own cumulative evidences. :)

Like I said.....there is that pattern.

Simply not true.

The God of the bible has as much validity as Zues and Thor.
 
Re: Is There A God?

The most compelling answer would be all those individual evidence for design......CUMULATIVE EVIDENCES.......all lumped together as ONE!

Okay...but since I do not see even one piece of evidence leading to "therefore gods exist"...there is no CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE.

So we are back to square one.
 
Re: Is There A God?

So "trees" "rocks" "buffalo" "lakes" "lice" "paper" MAY BE all evidence of a god.

Why, yeah. They're evidence of Design. God.

If you'll look at the way they fit into this world - their purpose, their uses, their contribution, their role......of course.
It's part of the big picture!

Would we even have the Book called the Bible that we read today....if there is no paper. :lol:

Everything knits together....just like the existence of the universe that makes life sustainable on earth......that's another PATTERN!




But if there is no god...all those things are evidence of no god.

That's what this thread is all about, isn't. I'm showing you - through the evidences - that there is a God!
 
Last edited:
Re: Is There A God?

Thank you for this attempt, Tosca...you apparently put lots of work into it.

What I do not see, however, is any evidence for the existence of a god...whether as an individual item or as an accumulation of items that could be termed "cumulative evidence."

And while you said I asked for "evidence of the existence of a god"...I usually ask for UNAMBIGUOUS evidence of the existence of a god. If I didn't term it that way, I apologize.

As nearly as I can tell...there is no unambiguous evidence for the existence of a god...just as there is no unambiguous evidence that gods do not exist.

Anyone asserting "there is a GOD" or "there are no gods"...seems, to me, to be simply asserting a guess about the true nature of REALITY.

If you honestly think there are individual pieces of evidence that accumulate to unambiguous cumulative evidence...please name the single most compelling item...and we can discuss it individually.

Evidence that can be interpreted in multiple and contradictory ways in not evidence, unless put together with other evidence that preclude those contradictory interpretations. Thus it can be ambiguous but put together can lead to a probability, or as Tosca says cumulative evidence. However there isn't any evidence as such provided. So not only is there no evidence ambiguous or not, there is no cumulative evidence.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is There A God?

The idea that the existence of anything that cannot be explained not to be the act of "the god" means that it was an act of "the god" fails to explain the existence of beliefs in multiple gods/religions. Since your chosen "truth", Christianity (itself a collection of multiple religions/sects), now accounts for about 30% of the world population then must mean that most folks (the other 70%) are terribly confused or misled.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

To argue that your faith (simply one of many religious beliefs) is true requires that you believe that all other faiths are not true.

In other words, your idea of "the" creator conflicts with all other ideas of "alternate" creators and those that see the possibility that there was no intellegent designer (named creator/god) at all.
 
Re: Is There A God?

It is not the definition of the word.

Seeing as you like to add your own definitions to words, having this discussion with you is pointless.

It is one definition...and the one most often used by Internet atheists. But defining it that way flies in the face of reason.

How so? Saying atheism is a worldview is like implying abstinence is a sexual position.

Why "simply a lack of a belief?"

Because there is a claim (ie God) and some people choose not to belief that claim. Therefor, I lack the belief. This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand.
 
Re: Is There A God?

Okay...but since I do not see even one piece of evidence leading to "therefore gods exist"...there is no CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE.

So we are back to square one.

Ignoring it, is not really an argument, is it? What's the point of the discussion if you'll merely say, no, I don't see the evidence.

Not being able to come face-to-face with it (and being unable to address it).....is not really the same as, "not seeing it."
Uh....or is it the other way around? :)
 
Last edited:
Re: Is There A God?

Evidence that can be interpreted in multiple and contradictory ways in not evidence, unless put together with other evidence that preclude those contradictory interpretations. Thus it can be ambiguous but put together can lead to a probability, or as Tosca says cumulative evidence. However there isn't any evidence as such provided. So not only is there no evidence ambiguous there is no cumulative evidence.

What interpretation?

All I gave were scientific findings! Now you're saying scientiifc results are not good enough....or are not believable. :mrgreen:

All those science findings show Design! They may not want to admit it.....but the individual findings for each and everything - they are cumulative evidences. How can we not see it that way.....if we're using logic?


Not all criminal cases are slam dunk! So many were convicted due to circumstial evidences that when used as a whole, had become
THE evidence...... without reasonable doubt.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom