• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Human Suffering

OK - I was abused in every way as a kid and that abuse led to me "coming down" with a strong case of schizophrenia. Nothing like your friend went through, but I have some small inkling of what you're talking about. It wasn't really the actual abuse that caused me to suffer - it was the aftereffects. Guilt. Shame. Fear. Depression. Flashbacks. Suicidal thoughts. Tried to kill myself a couple times - didn't succeed.

I was borderline PTSD when I discovered the writings of Ruiz and reading his works (more specifically, doing what he said to do) saved my life. Nowadays, I have fully recovered and am almost off my meds entirely (I still take small doses - *baby doses, mind you* - of an antidepressant and an anti-psychotic). All my doctors have pronounced me a living miracle and are all reading Ruiz's books themselves these days (so they can help others like myself). They all endorse Don Miguel's message.

Now.

I didn't do anything to warrant the abuse and neither did your friend. We were innocent children. And like I said in another post - scars heal, but pain lingers.

Look, we live in a sick world - it can arguably be called a "mental hospital" in and of itself. Ruiz makes this clear in his books. The world is Hell (forget what the bible says about us going to Hell when we die - we are already there) - we all live in Hell and some live in a deeper Hell and still some much deeper than any of us can possibly imagine (like what your friend went through). Ruiz alludes to this hell as "The Smoke" or "Mitote" - a fog that prevents us some seeing/becoming what we really are (and that is pure love).

I'm merely a toltec warrior - he is the master. He can explain human suffering much better than I can, so I suggest you read the book "The Mastery of Love." Who know, you may just learn something. I certainly did - and keep in mind that when I quote/quoted Ruiz, I am doing it out of context. It is much better to read the books written by the man, for the message is that life is nothing but a dream. True, we (a lot of us, anyway) are taught to dream a dream of Hell when we are small children. However, Ruiz makes it clear that it is possible to enjoy/create a dream of "Heaven" in the midst of Hell.

Have I personally done all that yet? NO! I still carry a lot of anger/depression/resentment because of what I've been through. However, I'm getting real close these days to a pleasant dream - one of Heaven. Until then I'm still a warrior, not a master like Don is.

My heart does bleed for your friend - child sex slavery is perhaps the worst form of abuse that can happen to a child. I've never been a sex slave - have been offered, but thankfully I was in the correct frame of mind to say no, but that's just me. A lot of kids (like your friend) had no choice and it was not their fault - they didn't do anything. Ruiz addresses all this kind of stuff in "The Mastery of Love" - what do you have to lose? Give it a look see sometime. :)

I'm reading it right now as I speak (yet again) - like I told Lizzie, my OP questions were already answered (I had just simply forgotten).

Thanks for your post and being respectful - your friend will be in my thoughts.

when I was a youngan I had a push lawn mower that i used to make afew dollars around the neighborhood. my uncle heard about my enterprise and asked if i would cut his grass for twice the rate that i was in the habit of receiving. when i arrived at the aforementioned location the uncle asked if i would change into some very short pants i would push the mower back and forth across the lawn while he sat on the steps watching. i remember gettting the mower out of the trunk of the car on later occasions and watching my parents drive away. I would stand there paralyzed with fear afraid to turn around waiting to hear that monster whisper......... Daisy Dukes.....
 
i think GOD must be beyond human labels. when a person considers the biblical account. It can be concluded that GOD is beyond human understanding. the term malevolent is from human reasoning.

I accept that and now I get what you're saying - thanks for the clarification. :)
 
when I was a youngan I had a push lawn mower that i used to make afew dollars around the neighborhood. my uncle heard about my enterprise and asked if i would cut his grass for twice the rate that i was in the habit of receiving. when i arrived at the aforementioned location the uncle asked if i would change into some very short pants i would push the mower back and forth across the lawn while he sat on the steps watching. i remember gettting the mower out of the trunk of the car on later occasions and watching my parents drive away. I would stand there paralyzed with fear afraid to turn around waiting to hear that monster whisper......... Daisy Dukes.....

Know what you're saying. One example: Had a pervert whom lived across the street from me when I grew up. He used to hide in the bushes and watch me shoot basketball hoops and placekick the football around. Sick bastard.
 
why wouldnt God allow suffering? if God is in control and is so far beyond human thought and reason, then God could allow suffering for no reason other than bcus God CAN allow it.

I admit and am willing to say this: IF there is a God, then you are probably right and have answered my OP better than anyone so far. :)
 
Every time some jerk off tries to reconcile suffering with the idea of a loving god, i can't help but think of all the suffering in the animal world, or of very young humans, how these creatures have no way to fathom that their pain is part of a "higher purpose."

Infant mortality used to be roughly 50%. Where's the point in that? A dog suffers, what's the point?

It leaves me to conclude either there is no god, or he's a complete asshole
 
Know what you're saying. One example: Had a pervert whom lived across the street from me when I grew up. He used to hide in the bushes and watch me shoot basketball hoops and placekick the football around. Sick bastard.

you must've had a lot of fun. did you have a basketball court or a football field at your house?
 
Hi JC! :2wave:

Welcome back to the forum, old friend! :)

Your post reminds me of an old book I once read - Think it was "The Problem of Pain," by CS Lewis. I will read it again (that's a promise). Can't really remember what his message was, but what I do remember is that it had a profound effect on my life at the time.

AND yes, I'm a big fan of "The Chronicles of Narnia!" I would say that anything he writes is a must read, no matter what one's beliefs/experiences.

Great to see you back here posting, my friend. :)

Great to see you too, you've always been enthusiastically friendly to me and I appreciate it! I'm sure my post was influenced by C.S. Lewis, as I've read most of his books and he's by far my favorite theologian. I think that when pain is always looked at as an abject negative, then it's easy to get bogged down by it. But you may agree that there are usually lessons to be learned from it and that it's very difficult to mature without it. Would you be as insightful, interesting, and loving without it?
 
Great to see you too, you've always been enthusiastically friendly to me and I appreciate it! I'm sure my post was influenced by C.S. Lewis, as I've read most of his books and he's by far my favorite theologian. I think that when pain is always looked at as an abject negative, then it's easy to get bogged down by it. But you may agree that there are usually lessons to be learned from it and that it's very difficult to mature without it. Would you be as insightful, interesting, and loving without it?

Thanks JC. :)

I don't really have an answer to your question right now, but may after I read "The Problem of Pain." Will stay in touch with you on this and let you know what I think of the book.

Won't be posting much in the near future - starting a brand new full time job tomorrow. However, please feel free to give me a shout out sometime via pm. Will be happy to discuss this further after I read CS Lewis' book (in fact, will either download it or order a print copy from Amazon immediately after I log off now).

Take care of yourself, my friend and please keep in touch! :)

Kevin
 
Thanks JC. :)

I don't really have an answer to your question right now, but may after I read "The Problem of Pain." Will stay in touch with you on this and let you know what I think of the book.

Won't be posting much in the near future - starting a brand new full time job tomorrow. However, please feel free to give me a shout out sometime via pm. Will be happy to discuss this further after I read CS Lewis' book (in fact, will either download it or order a print copy from Amazon immediately after I log off now).

Take care of yourself, my friend and please keep in touch! :)

Kevin

Congrats on the job! You take care too and let me know how the job goes!
 
An excellent idea and one I'd love to hear you explain away..... I mean there are things that we find physically and mentally revolting. Why couldn't god simply have made the act of taking someone sexually against there will revolting? I mean, It appears he's done that with feces, right? We find it revolting and disgusting to touch and eat feces, but we know that this is something fairly universal in humans. Animals play with and eat there feces but humans (healthy humans anyway) avoid playing with and eating them. Why couldn't rape be equally as revolting?

Suddenly I am reminded of A Clockwork Orange......

What about or tendency to fear heights? Do we simply choose to fear heights? If it's part of our instinct, an instinct that god put there, isn't that influencing our free will? Why couldn't the act of rape be equally as frighting as standin on the edge of a cliff?

You ask an interesting question.

Humans are on this earth to do one thing and one thing only. They are here to reproduce. What you call rape, biology would call spreading the gene pool which is needed for the species to survive. I am talking about when there weren't very many people on the planet.
 
You ask an interesting question.

Humans are on this earth to do one thing and one thing only. They are here to reproduce. What you call rape, biology would call spreading the gene pool which is needed for the species to survive. I am talking about when there weren't very many people on the planet.

They do reproduce, but given our awareness we can make the decision not to reproduce, think of all the humans that weren't born that's to contraception and abortion. I mean, I'm all about practicing to reproduce, but thanks to my doc, I'm shooting blanks.....
 
A few questions (these sort of go hand in hand):

If there is a God, why does human suffering take place (ie: cancer, AIDS, mental illnesses, innocent babies being killed by drunk drivers, etc.)?
Because you play with yourself.
 
Back
Top Bottom