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Brain in a vat theory

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Pozessed

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If you haven't already, look into the brain in a vat theory. It's a quick read and quite simple. To summarize, I will say that the brain in a vat theory is a thought experiment to deduce the implications of what it would mean if we are simply a brain in a vat connected to a computer in order to simulate our current reality.

I am curious of this communities thoughts on what I think is possible and probable in the future and what it may imply.

To begin, I want to say I believe that it is human nature to invent and adapt in order to survive. Our brain is our most precious commodity of our human existence. Without it, we can do nothing, with it we can do almost anything. Our human bodies can be considerably weak compared to the durability of other materials that exist. It seems to me that if we could transfer our brains into a mechanical body, or some type of surrogate that eliminates disease, injury, and aging, we would most likely research and develop that technology.

Considering that seems like the route humanity would take if its possible, and we have some technology that makes it seem probable. How do we know we haven't reached that state already and are nothing more than a brain connected to a computer?

If we are nothing more than brains connected to a computer, what would be the purpose of being in this exact simulation?
 
Pozessed said:
If you haven't already, look into the brain in a vat theory. It's a quick read and quite simple. To summarize, I will say that the brain in a vat theory is a thought experiment to deduce the implications of what it would mean if we are simply a brain in a vat connected to a computer in order to simulate our current reality.

I am curious of this communities thoughts on what I think is possible and probable in the future and what it may imply.

To begin, I want to say I believe that it is human nature to invent and adapt in order to survive. Our brain is our most precious commodity of our human existence. Without it, we can do nothing, with it we can do almost anything. Our human bodies can be considerably weak compared to the durability of other materials that exist. It seems to me that if we could transfer our brains into a mechanical body, or some type of surrogate that eliminates disease, injury, and aging, we would most likely research and develop that technology.

Considering that seems like the route humanity would take if its possible, and we have some technology that makes it seem probable. How do we know we haven't reached that state already and are nothing more than a brain connected to a computer?

If we are nothing more than brains connected to a computer, what would be the purpose of being in this exact simulation?
Click to expand...


What would be the purpose of concealing the truth from us?
 
Goshin said:
What would be the purpose of concealing the truth from us?
Click to expand...

Maybe a lesson is to be learned? Maybe there is euphoria for uncovering a mystery? Hard to say.
 
Goshin said:
What would be the purpose of concealing the truth from us?
Click to expand...

Who knows? Maybe in the future it is considered the ultimate psychedelic experience. Maybe when we die in this "reality" the real us will wake up and we will be all, "DUDE! That was totally trippy!" :)

As far as speculative realities go I think the possibility of us living in a simulated universe is more reasonable. Think about it. Once a society advances to the point of being able to run simulations of universe, planets, or even cities, they could then run the simulation at high speed until the technological capabilities of the simulated societies actually surpass that of the programmers' society. That information could then be used to advance their societies by leaps and bounds. It would be its own kind of singularity.
 
Pozessed said:
I am curious of this communities thoughts on what I think is possible and probable in the future and what it may imply.
Click to expand...
It's not possible with current technology. It might never be possible, given the volume of data that would need to be generated and sent to the brain.

It's also not designed to be a suggestion about what will ever actually happen. It's just a tool to discuss phenomenalism.


Our human bodies can be considerably weak compared to the durability of other materials that exist.
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Go spend some time with a person with dementia, and get back to us on that claim.


It seems to me that if we could transfer our brains into a mechanical body, or some type of surrogate that eliminates disease, injury, and aging, we would most likely research and develop that technology.
Click to expand...
A couple of wags have convinced themselves they will live forever if they can do such a thing.

However and again, the technology is unlikely to ever actually exist. We basically don't actually know how the brain functions, and are a long long long way off from that ever happening. Cybernetic brain replication is a lot easier in a cartoon than in reality.


How do we know we haven't reached that state already and are nothing more than a brain connected to a computer?
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You don't.

You also don't know if you are in the thrall of a Cartesian demon, who is inventing the entire universe around you; or if you are in the grips of a mental delusion. And yet, it is not likely that all three are true.

The BIV scenario is unfalsifiable. That doesn't mean it's true.


If we are nothing more than brains connected to a computer, what would be the purpose of being in this exact simulation?
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Uhm... are you assuming that this rather ridiculous scenario is real, and now positing questions about the motivations of a race of super-computer-operators who have you plugged into the Matrix?

Really?
 
Visbek said:
Uhm... are you assuming that this rather ridiculous scenario is real, and now positing questions about the motivations of a race of super-computer-operators who have you plugged into the Matrix?

Really?
Click to expand...

I was thinking more of an intricate VR simulation or surrogate that we voluntarily plugged ourselves into. More like Total Recall.

Why not? What harm is there in asking questions?
 
The dream catcher: Scientists programme computer to read people's sleeping minds | Daily Mail Online

To add a little practicality to my post. This article describes a machine that creates videos from thoughts. If we can extract memories now, implanting memories in the future should not be considered inconceivable nor improbable. Technology grows rapidly this day and age, and our communication skills as a whole on this planet have room for improvement. I expect better or worse for us as communication becomes more attainable and used world wide.
 
Pozessed said:
If you haven't already, look into the brain in a vat theory. It's a quick read and quite simple. To summarize, I will say that the brain in a vat theory is a thought experiment to deduce the implications of what it would mean if we are simply a brain in a vat connected to a computer in order to simulate our current reality.

I am curious of this communities thoughts on what I think is possible and probable in the future and what it may imply.

To begin, I want to say I believe that it is human nature to invent and adapt in order to survive. Our brain is our most precious commodity of our human existence. Without it, we can do nothing, with it we can do almost anything. Our human bodies can be considerably weak compared to the durability of other materials that exist. It seems to me that if we could transfer our brains into a mechanical body, or some type of surrogate that eliminates disease, injury, and aging, we would most likely research and develop that technology.

Considering that seems like the route humanity would take if its possible, and we have some technology that makes it seem probable. How do we know we haven't reached that state already and are nothing more than a brain connected to a computer?

If we are nothing more than brains connected to a computer, what would be the purpose of being in this exact simulation?
Click to expand...

Didn't they do a movie on this a few years ago?
 
Pozessed said:
I was thinking more of an intricate VR simulation or surrogate that we voluntarily plugged ourselves into. More like Total Recall.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I'd know if I was plugged into a VR machine.

You're also underestimating the ridiculous amounts of data and redundancy required to actually fool the brain into thinking it was experiencing the real world.


Why not? What harm is there in asking questions?
Click to expand...
Pointless questions are pointless.
 
Pozessed said:
This article describes a machine that creates videos from thoughts. If we can extract memories now, implanting memories in the future should not be considered inconceivable nor improbable.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm aware of such technology. While impressive, it's a long, long, LONG way from implanting high-fidelity sensory information directly into someone's brain.

Wake me up when we can replace eyeballs with video cameras.


Technology grows rapidly this day and age....
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Technology GREW rapidly; the pace has slowed down somewhat, and will likely continue to slow down. E.g. if transistors get too much smaller, they will become less reliable as quantum effects will start interfering with their functionality. Plus, smaller = faster = hotter. That's why no one cares anymore about CPU Ghz, and are focusing instead on the number of cores, on offloading functions to graphics processors, and so forth.

Also, if you read up on neuroscience and cognition, you'll realize that we really don't have a good grasp on how the brain really functions. We've got a long way to go, to get from our current relatively crude correlations of brain activity to mental activity, and a genuine understanding of how our brains fully process visual imagery and distribute that information to other parts of the brain.
 
Pozessed said:
If you haven't already, look into the brain in a vat theory. It's a quick read and quite simple. To summarize, I will say that the brain in a vat theory is a thought experiment to deduce the implications of what it would mean if we are simply a brain in a vat connected to a computer in order to simulate our current reality.

I am curious of this communities thoughts on what I think is possible and probable in the future and what it may imply.

To begin, I want to say I believe that it is human nature to invent and adapt in order to survive. Our brain is our most precious commodity of our human existence. Without it, we can do nothing, with it we can do almost anything. Our human bodies can be considerably weak compared to the durability of other materials that exist. It seems to me that if we could transfer our brains into a mechanical body, or some type of surrogate that eliminates disease, injury, and aging, we would most likely research and develop that technology.

Considering that seems like the route humanity would take if its possible, and we have some technology that makes it seem probable. How do we know we haven't reached that state already and are nothing more than a brain connected to a computer?

If we are nothing more than brains connected to a computer, what would be the purpose of being in this exact simulation?
Click to expand...

Why even have a brain, we're just simulations of reality.
 
Pozessed said:
If you haven't already, look into the brain in a vat theory. It's a quick read and quite simple. To summarize, I will say that the brain in a vat theory is a thought experiment to deduce the implications of what it would mean if we are simply a brain in a vat connected to a computer in order to simulate our current reality.

I am curious of this communities thoughts on what I think is possible and probable in the future and what it may imply.

To begin, I want to say I believe that it is human nature to invent and adapt in order to survive. Our brain is our most precious commodity of our human existence. Without it, we can do nothing, with it we can do almost anything. Our human bodies can be considerably weak compared to the durability of other materials that exist. It seems to me that if we could transfer our brains into a mechanical body, or some type of surrogate that eliminates disease, injury, and aging, we would most likely research and develop that technology.

Considering that seems like the route humanity would take if its possible, and we have some technology that makes it seem probable. How do we know we haven't reached that state already and are nothing more than a brain connected to a computer?

If we are nothing more than brains connected to a computer, what would be the purpose of being in this exact simulation?
Click to expand...

This is an easy one. We don't know either way. But (and here's the kicker) it doesn't matter. Let's assume the opposite, and that I have the body I think I do. Who's to say I can trust my senses? Maybe there isn't a little boy in front of my car and I don't need to slam on the brakes. However, this isn't true to myself. I am experiencing a little boy about to get hit by my car. I should accept my experience as true and slam the brakes. If I'm wrong, who can blame me? The world still has meaning because I am either talking to other brains-in-vats or learning the things within me, both of which are worthwhile pursuits. I can even learn things that are necessarily true regardless of my true existence, such as mathematics. If I suddenly wake up in a robot body and realize my whole life has been my brain in a vat, not all is lost, and the time I spent in the vat could potentially still be good.
 
Visbek said:
I'm pretty sure I'd know if I was plugged into a VR machine.

You're also underestimating the ridiculous amounts of data and redundancy required to actually fool the brain into thinking it was experiencing the real world.



Pointless questions are pointless.
Click to expand...

The whole idea is that the simulation is so advanced that you wouldn't be able to know the difference. Let's not be arrogant here.

The only point of the exercise is to think. If you like to limit what you allow yourself to think about, that doesn't hinder me at all.
OTOH people who don't limit their thoughts will have a rough idea on things that may come, and recognize how they would feel about future applications of these potential happenings.
 
Radical said:
This is an easy one. We don't know either way. But (and here's the kicker) it doesn't matter. Let's assume the opposite, and that I have the body I think I do. Who's to say I can trust my senses? Maybe there isn't a little boy in front of my car and I don't need to slam on the brakes. However, this isn't true to myself. I am experiencing a little boy about to get hit by my car. I should accept my experience as true and slam the brakes. If I'm wrong, who can blame me? The world still has meaning because I am either talking to other brains-in-vats or learning the things within me, both of which are worthwhile pursuits. I can even learn things that are necessarily true regardless of my true existence, such as mathematics. If I suddenly wake up in a robot body and realize my whole life has been my brain in a vat, not all is lost, and the time I spent in the vat could potentially still be good.
Click to expand...

How about the question of: should we as a species recreate mental perceptions to be part of our own bio-mechanical creations to the point we can simulate reality entirely?
 
Pozessed said:
How about the question of: should we as a species recreate mental perceptions to be part of our own bio-mechanical creations to the point we can simulate reality entirely?
Click to expand...

Should we? Idk. I don't think the question has to do with good and bad. Metaphysically, I think this is the case. I think our mental perceptions are simply due to our body's reaction to stimuli, but I think that it's pretty accurate as is. We often enhance our mental perceptions by editing our body's reaction to stimuli, such as putting in contacts or wearing a jacket, so I would have no problem with putting my brain in a vat and linking it to an artificial, mechanical body, assuming it gave more benefit than it took away. It would be much the same thing as right now.
 
Radical said:
Should we? Idk. I don't think the question has to do with good and bad. Metaphysically, I think this is the case. I think our mental perceptions are simply due to our body's reaction to stimuli, but I think that it's pretty accurate as is. We often enhance our mental perceptions by editing our body's reaction to stimuli, such as putting in contacts or wearing a jacket, so I would have no problem with putting my brain in a vat and linking it to an artificial, mechanical body, assuming it gave more benefit than it took away. It would be much the same thing as right now.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I feel the same as you, so long as necessary precautions are taken to protect my soft brain from cyber and physical attacks I'd have few worries.
 
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