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A Tree Falls In The Woods

Falling tree in woods with nobody around

  • I lean liberal - no noise at all

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I lean conservative - no noise at all

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't "lean" either way - no noise at all

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

Dragonfly

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A tree falls in the woods. There's nobody around to hear it. Does it make a sound?

Why?
 
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Does anyone really believe sound existing is dependent on someone being around to hear it? Are people really that stupid? Yes, the tree makes a sound when it falls regardless of people being around to hear it.
 
If nobody looks at an American flag is it still red, white and blue?
 
It depends whether anything exists outside our perceptions.

Or something like that.
 
Except for maybe quantum physicists and philosophers yes it makes a noise.

I chose other because as a fiscal conservative, social progressive libertarian none of your other choices worked.
 
A tree falls in the woods. There's nobody around to hear it. Does it make a sound?

Why?

To the left, the sound it may or may not have made doesn't matter. The fallen tree will be evidence that the Right and Big Corporations are destroying the planet, and another Dog Whistle will go out to bring the pack running to lodge the prescribed accusations.

To the right, a sound would have been obvious, and it would appear Nature is running it's course.
 
It depends as what you define as sound.

Noises are the brains interpretation of an incoming signal, in this case, the vibration of molecules in the air. When the tree falls, the air molecules dovibrate. However, without a brain in order to translate those air vibrations into distinguishable signals, it could be the case that it isn't technically a 'sound'. There are lots of examples of vibrating air molecules that don't make a sound. One potential example is a dog whistle. Does a dog whistle make a sound when blown in a room full of humans?

If you define sound as the vibration of air molecules, then yes it does make a sound.
If you don't define sound as the vibration of air molecules (i.e. it is our brain that interprets an incoming signal as sound), then no it doesn't make a sound.

PLaying devils advocate a bit now, but if you do believe it's option 1, it brings up some interesting hypotheticals.
 
It depends as what you define as sound.

Noises are the brains interpretation of an incoming signal, in this case, the vibration of molecules in the air. When the tree falls, the air molecules dovibrate. However, without a brain in order to translate those air vibrations into distinguishable signals, it could be the case that it isn't technically a 'sound'. There are lots of examples of vibrating air molecules that don't make a sound. One potential example is a dog whistle. Does a dog whistle make a sound when blown in a room full of humans?

If you define sound as the vibration of air molecules, then yes it does make a sound.
If you don't define sound as the vibration of air molecules (i.e. it is our brain that interprets an incoming signal as sound), then no it doesn't make a sound.

PLaying devils advocate a bit now, but if you do believe it's option 1, it brings up some interesting hypotheticals.

Of course it makes a sound unless you're somehow implying that only YOUR ears/brains count. There are dozens and dozens of ears and brains that will hear it regardless of whether or not YOU hear it, or whether or not a human hears it.
Obviously you were trying to be impressive, but it fails.
 
This is where philosophy runs off the rails. So I'll go with an answer in the form of a question to purposefully to make matters worse.

If you consider that reality is nothing more than a persistent illusion with definable properties we can mostly agree on, then does it really matter anymore if the tree makes a noise for an audience or does not make a noise for the absence of an audience? On that standard for this condition the only reality is what you hear, or a recording captures. Without either one then there is no reality for us on a tree making noise for the absence of an audience (or recording.)

Next in the news... man falls on a knife, 25 times, no foul play suspected... onto the weather!
 
Maybe other people only exist when I'm around. Oh wait...that's absurd.
 
The only way the tree would not make a sound is if the wood was in a vacuum.
 
If a tree falls on a quantum physicist philosophical nitpicker does anybody care? :)
 
If nobody looks at an American flag is it still red, white and blue?

Red, white, blue, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Don't humans only see like less than one millionth of 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum? It only looks red, white, and blue to us. So apart from our own perception, what does it really look like?

Likewise, if a tree falls sound waves will be created, but if a human isn't around to hear it, the sound waves won't be perceived as what we consider sound. Our brains are just interpreting the sensory input they receive from our VERY limited sensory organs.
 
Of course it makes a sound unless you're somehow implying that only YOUR ears/brains count. There are dozens and dozens of ears and brains that will hear it regardless of whether or not YOU hear it, or whether or not a human hears it.
Obviously you were trying to be impressive, but it fails.

Except in certain fields sound is defined by reception in the brain. The American Heritage dictionary actually defines sound as "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing."

Move one hand slowly back and forward in the air in front of you without touching them together. You're making vibrations in the air at a frequency undetectable by our (or likely any creatures) ears. But I think colloquially nobody would consider you as making sound. Why do vibrations at 0.1Hz not count but at 30,000Hz they do. Neither of them are audible to us.
 
Red, white, blue, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Don't humans only see like less than one millionth of 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum? It only looks red, white, and blue to us. So apart from our own perception, what does it really look like?

Likewise, if a tree falls sound waves will be created, but if a human isn't around to hear it, the sound waves won't be perceived as what we consider sound. Our brains are just interpreting the sensory input they receive from our VERY limited sensory organs.

Animals are not deaf. You might as well say that woods are completely silent unless there is a human being present. What is so special about us?
 
Except in certain fields sound is defined by reception in the brain. The American Heritage dictionary actually defines sound as "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing."

Move one hand slowly back and forward in the air in front of you without touching them together. You're making vibrations in the air at a frequency undetectable by our (or likely any creatures) ears. But I think colloquially nobody would consider you as making sound. Why do vibrations at 0.1Hz not count but at 30,000Hz they do. Neither of them are audible to us.

I don't argue that it's receptors in the brain. I argue that you've chosen to be so arrogant as to assume that if you're not there, or a human isn't there, that there are no other ears or brains to hear it.
 
I don't argue that it's receptors in the brain. I argue that you've chosen to be so arrogant as to assume that if you're not there, or a human isn't there, that there are no other ears or brains to hear it.

It's not arrogance, it's an initial assumption. I never implied that only my ears count. I mean, in my hypothetical I asked about a dog whistle in a room full of humans.... Did I really have to specifically state 'oh btw there are no dogs in the room'? Should I list every other animal that isn't in the room either? Bats, Whales Cats? Are you purposefully being dense?
 
Animals are not deaf. You might as well say that woods are completely silent unless there is a human being present. What is so special about us?

You are right. The question should be does it make a sound if there is nothing with the sense of hearing around.
 
You are right. The question should be does it make a sound if there is nothing with the sense of hearing around.

Would a recording device such as a tape recorder be classified as having a sense of hearing? If it recorded a tree falling with no sentient beings around would the sound waves only exist when the recording was played back?
 
It's not arrogance, it's an initial assumption. I never implied that only my ears count. I mean, in my hypothetical I asked about a dog whistle in a room full of humans.... Did I really have to specifically state 'oh btw there are no dogs in the room'? Should I list every other animal that isn't in the room either? Bats, Whales Cats? Are you purposefully being dense?

If you had a tape recorder running and then played it back with a dog in the room then the dog would hear it so the whistle does make a sound, regardless of the audience. This assumes the the recording device can register the higher frequencies.
 
If you had a tape recorder running and then played it back with a dog in the room then the dog would hear it so the whistle does make a sound, regardless of the audience. This assumes the the recording device can register the higher frequencies.

Having a tape recorder in the room is analogous to having a dog in the room though. Both 'percieve' the sound so defeat the point of the question. I'd argue that perception of sound involves receiving it a stimulus and processing it as useful information (in the brain for us/dogs, on a tape for the recorder). I guess it's kind of semantical but if there are no 'perceivers' is there a sound.

The only way the tree would not make a sound is if the wood was in a vacuum.

Sound can propagate through solids aswell, so if a tree fell in a vacuum you could still hear it if you had your ear to the tree.
 
I guess it's kind of semantical but if there are no 'perceivers' is there a sound.

It's the height of semanticism. Of course there is a sound.
 
It's the height of semanticism. Of course there is a sound.

Well then you're defining sound simply as vibrations in the air.

But we can also hear sounds without vibrations in the air. Take missing fundamentals for example. When a harmonic missing a particular pitch is played, we can hear the pitch without it existing at all at the source. Similarly, we perceive sound in dreams without any external stimulus, but it's indistinguishable from sounds outside of dreams. Then there are medical issues such as tinnitus, or the rather un-aptly named exploding head syndrome. Many people suffering from these consider the sound to be real. One of my old professors used to help develop cochlear implants, and the boundary of sound as a physical thing and sound as a perception is really quite interesting.

As I said earlier:
In certain fields sound is defined by reception in the brain. The American Heritage dictionary actually defines sound as "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing."
 
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