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Which Came First - Chicken or Egg?

Which came first, chicken or egg?

  • Total voters
    20
Dragonfly said:
So, which came first - the chicken or the egg?

Why?
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Eggs were used for reproduction long before chickens ever made the scene.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Unless you believe that an egg evolved from a single cell organism, don't you have to accept that a "creature" of some sort existed before the first egg was laid?
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an egg is a single cell organism. The shell is only the method to transfer the incubation from inside to outside the host.
 
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CanadaJohn said:
My only point is that if we follow the evolutionary trail, the origin of the chicken, traced back, is not an egg but a creature of some sort that evolved to the point where it laid eggs and from their evolved further into what would be considered modern day chickens. Eggs that hatched into creatures didn't just appear one day, unless you believe in creation theory and then you could have Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and an egg that popped out a KFC ready chicken.

And to be clear, an egg is fertilized and formed within the chicken's body. Without the chicken's body, you have no fertilized egg.
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but that creature whose body fertilized and formed the first chicken egg wasn't a chicken! the creature in the egg was, but the creature that laid the egg wasn't a chicken.
 
Evolution happens to populations not individuals so there wouldn't have been a single chicken or egg that this could have happened to.
 
William Rea said:
Evolution happens to populations not individuals so there wouldn't have been a single chicken or egg that this could have happened to.
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there necessarily MUST have been a first chicken
 
not every egg turns to chicken .
 
bg85 said:
but that creature whose body fertilized and formed the first chicken egg wasn't a chicken! the creature in the egg was, but the creature that laid the egg wasn't a chicken.
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So you're a fan of a form of immaculate conception. Creatures just magically pop out eggs containing entirely new and totally unrelated creatures. It's like a Kinder Surprise Egg with every laying.
 
Dragonfly said:
So, which came first - the chicken or the egg?

Why?
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The egg came first, just not necessarily from a chicken. IIR my biology correctly, many of the early species, . . . reptiles and right into birds, laid eggs. So likelihood is some bird mutation or hybrid took hold in one or more ancient bird species.
 
bg85 said:
there necessarily MUST have been a first chicken
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Evolution is a change in populations, there wouldn't be a Chicken unless a population of Chickens evolved. Individuals don't Evolve populations do.
 
There is no way for the first chicken to have ever existed without first hatching from an egg.

Egg came first.
 
CanadaJohn said:
So you're a fan of a form of immaculate conception. Creatures just magically pop out eggs containing entirely new and totally unrelated creatures. It's like a Kinder Surprise Egg with every laying.
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yeah. that's how evolution works, isn't it? except that they're not unrelated creatures.
 
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William Rea said:
Evolution is a change in populations, there wouldn't be a Chicken unless a population of Chickens evolved. Individuals don't Evolve populations do.
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right, but the first chicken in that population would still be the first chicken. whichever chicken in the population came out first would have been the first chicken.
 
CanadaJohn said:
So you're a fan of a form of immaculate conception. Creatures just magically pop out eggs containing entirely new and totally unrelated creatures. It's like a Kinder Surprise Egg with every laying.
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No. It's evolution, mutation, and perhaps even some hybridization. Not magic. I mean the first cockapoo didn't arrive from nowhere, it was a fertilized egg that came to fruition but neither parent was a cockapoo.
 
bg85 said:
right, but the first chicken in that population would still be the first chicken. whichever chicken in the population came out first would have been the first chicken.
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No because it wouldn't be a recognisable or distinct species of chicken unless the mutation became prevalent in a population. I realise that this is a subtle distinction but, an isolated mutation is not Evolution and a species does not exist as a single entity.
 
Summerwind said:
No. It's evolution, mutation, and perhaps even some hybridization. Not magic. I mean the first cockapoo didn't arrive from nowhere, it was a fertilized egg that came to fruition but neither parent was a cockapoo.
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Were the sire and the bitch of the first cockapoo both dogs? Is the cockapoo still a dog? Evolution doesn't take a cow and a lizard mating to immediately produce a chicken, so your analogy is off. Your analogy is more like a white Canadian mating with a oriental. The result is still a human.

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CanadaJohn said:
Were the sire and the bitch of the first cockapoo both dogs? Is the cockapoo still a dog? Evolution doesn't take a cow and a lizard mating to immediately produce a chicken, so your analogy is off. Your analogy is more like a white Canadian mating with a oriental. The result is still a human.

View attachment 67182721
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Well I'm sure both parents of what we now call chickens were fowls of some sort similar in genetics to our modern day chickens. Perhaps even some species still alive and well. But the first egg certainly didn't come from two chickens or even one chicken, that would be impossible.
 
The Chigg
 
William Rea said:
No because it wouldn't be a recognisable or distinct species of chicken unless the mutation became prevalent in a population. I realise that this is a subtle distinction but, an isolated mutation is not Evolution and a species does not exist as a single entity.
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it wouldn't be recognizable YET but its genetic code would be close enough to that of what we call a chicken for it to be considered a chicken after the fact. there MUST have been a creature that existed that was the first to have the genes we now recognize as chicken genes.
 
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