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We Don't Know

Faydra

Faydra

Active member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
270
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270
Location
Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and y
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
We don't know' is a wonderful, fulfilling, inquisitive, and terrifying answer!

A lot of what you see around you came to be because the answer used to be 'I don't know'. Our understanding of the world, and the universe around us is improved because the answer to questions used to be 'I don't know'. And you know what? There are still a lot of questions where the answer is 'I don't know'. The 'I don't know's means we want to find out.

Humanity likes to live in a cave. It's dark, and comforting. It's home, and filled with what we know. The world outside is bright, and frightening. It's dangerous and uncertain.

Outside the cave,there's thunder and lightning. At the back of the cave is the shaman screaming and yelling that the thunder and lightning means that the gods are angry. At the front of the cave, someone is looking up at the sky, wondering 'Why does it do that'? The answer is, 'I don't know. But I want to find out!'.

To many, 'god' is not an answer.

What is over the next hill? God.
How do birds fly? God.
Where did we come from? God.
What are the pinpricks of light in the night sky? God.

Change the answer to 'I don't know', and we can learn more. We, right now, have a pretty good grasp on the actual answers of the above. We can travel over the next hill to find an answer. We can study birds to find out how they stay in the sky. We have a good grasp on where humanity came from, even if the answer on how life began is still a little uncertain. As for the stars? We know what they are, how they form, and how they die.

'I don't know' has given us many of the technologies we take for granted. What is Mars really like? Well, to find out, we've sent probes that we can control from right here on earth! The latest rover was transported to Mars, and lowered on a rocket powered sky crane. Safely. The answer of 'god' would not give us anything useful about mars, or how to get a rover to another planet.

Of course, big questions may never find a suitable answer. How did the universe start? Well, we have a lot of ideas, but nothing concrete. It was a mind-boggingly long time ago, after all.

Evolution is also not a 'failed theory'. It is, in fact, pretty darn useful, teaching us more on how life adapts, and helping us fight diseases. Evolution is true. The theory is just the explanation on how it happens.

It should also be noted that no answer we changed from 'We don't know' to 'now we know' has ever included the phrase 'and therefore there is no god'. The existence or non-existence of a god is irrelevant. Since we cannot prove that one exists, we just ignore it since we find answers anyways.

Trying to place an answer of 'We don't know, therefore god' is limiting. Very limiting to ourselves, the universe around us, and to our own curiosity and intellect.

Are you going to stay at the back of the cave, screaming that the thunder and lighting are proof that the gods are angry? Or are you going to join us in the frightening, terrifying light in order to find a new answer rather than 'We don't know'?
 
Very interesting. Just last week I talked with a Buddhist monk who said very much the same thing.
 
Faydra said:
Are you going to stay at the back of the cave, screaming that the thunder and lighting are proof that the gods are angry? Or are you going to join us in the frightening, terrifying light in order to find a new answer rather than 'We don't know'?
Click to expand...

My cave has a disco ball. I'm good.
 
`
I have no problem with people of faith, be they Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Rastafarian, Sinto, Buddhist, Daoism, Satanism or pagan. What I do object to is any religion or faith attempting to fuse itself into our secular government, education and laws. For example, the myth that the US is a Christian nation is an anathema to me or the teaching of "fundamentalist science" (which is an oxymoron) which I strenuously object to in public schools.
 
Faydra said:
How did the universe start? Well, we have a lot of ideas...
Click to expand...

The first and foremost of these was given to us by a Catholic priest. We know what's on the other side of the hill because we have been there, Edwin Aldrin, a PhD, celebrated communion on the surface of the moon. I learned what causes lightning in grade school. Caves? What do you think this is, 10,000 years BC?

Feel free to join us in the 21st century when you are ready.
 
Faydra said:
We don't know' is a wonderful, fulfilling, inquisitive, and terrifying answer!

A lot of what you see around you came to be because the answer used to be 'I don't know'. Our understanding of the world, and the universe around us is improved because the answer to questions used to be 'I don't know'. And you know what? There are still a lot of questions where the answer is 'I don't know'. The 'I don't know's means we want to find out.

Humanity likes to live in a cave. It's dark, and comforting. It's home, and filled with what we know. The world outside is bright, and frightening. It's dangerous and uncertain.

Outside the cave,there's thunder and lightning. At the back of the cave is the shaman screaming and yelling that the thunder and lightning means that the gods are angry. At the front of the cave, someone is looking up at the sky, wondering 'Why does it do that'? The answer is, 'I don't know. But I want to find out!'.

To many, 'god' is not an answer.

What is over the next hill? God.
How do birds fly? God.
Where did we come from? God.
What are the pinpricks of light in the night sky? God.

Change the answer to 'I don't know', and we can learn more. We, right now, have a pretty good grasp on the actual answers of the above. We can travel over the next hill to find an answer. We can study birds to find out how they stay in the sky. We have a good grasp on where humanity came from, even if the answer on how life began is still a little uncertain. As for the stars? We know what they are, how they form, and how they die.

'I don't know' has given us many of the technologies we take for granted. What is Mars really like? Well, to find out, we've sent probes that we can control from right here on earth! The latest rover was transported to Mars, and lowered on a rocket powered sky crane. Safely. The answer of 'god' would not give us anything useful about mars, or how to get a rover to another planet.

Of course, big questions may never find a suitable answer. How did the universe start? Well, we have a lot of ideas, but nothing concrete. It was a mind-boggingly long time ago, after all.

Evolution is also not a 'failed theory'. It is, in fact, pretty darn useful, teaching us more on how life adapts, and helping us fight diseases. Evolution is true. The theory is just the explanation on how it happens.

It should also be noted that no answer we changed from 'We don't know' to 'now we know' has ever included the phrase 'and therefore there is no god'. The existence or non-existence of a god is irrelevant. Since we cannot prove that one exists, we just ignore it since we find answers anyways.

Trying to place an answer of 'We don't know, therefore god' is limiting. Very limiting to ourselves, the universe around us, and to our own curiosity and intellect.

Are you going to stay at the back of the cave, screaming that the thunder and lighting are proof that the gods are angry? Or are you going to join us in the frightening, terrifying light in order to find a new answer rather than 'We don't know'?
Click to expand...

I don't know if we can truthfully now say that, "we don't know."


Science, in particular is leading the way to finding "CLUES" about God.

"I build molecules for a living, I can't begin to tell you how difficult that job is. I stand in awe of God because of what he has done through his creation. Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith.

If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God."

http://www.debatepolitics.com/scien...olution-and-theory-evolution-evidence-12.html
 
we make such philosophic discussions in the philosophie forum ,fadyra.

but I can say from my own experiences that the questnioning of our universe and the roots of our existence usually ends in ' GOD '.
 
it's just me said:
The first and foremost of these was given to us by a Catholic priest. We know what's on the other side of the hill because we have been there, Edwin Aldrin, a PhD, celebrated communion on the surface of the moon. I learned what causes lightning in grade school. Caves? What do you think this is, 10,000 years BC?

Feel free to join us in the 21st century when you are ready.
Click to expand...

Feel free to learn about allergory when you are ready.
 
it's just me said:
The first and foremost of these was given to us by a Catholic priest. We know what's on the other side of the hill because we have been there, Edwin Aldrin, a PhD, celebrated communion on the surface of the moon. I learned what causes lightning in grade school. Caves? What do you think this is, 10,000 years BC?

Feel free to join us in the 21st century when you are ready.
Click to expand...

Yes it was a Catholic priest, and I believe he called it the "primordial atom" if I remember correctly. Funny how atheist never bring that up? I guess it hurts the argument that science and religion are incompatible.
 
Gringo allstar said:
Yes it was a Catholic priest, and I believe he called it the "primordial atom" if I remember correctly. Funny how atheist never bring that up? I guess it hurts the argument that science and religion are incompatible.
Click to expand...

They never bring it up because they think they own "science". If you look through the history of science you will find it loaded with Christians. If it had been up to atheists we would have never found out bacteria because you can't see them. It took an uneducated Dutch reformed fabric salesman, Antony Van Leeuwenhoek, to build the microscopes needed to discover microbiology.
 
it's just me said:
They never bring it up because they think they own "science". If you look through the history of science you will find it loaded with Christians. If it had been up to atheists we would have never found out bacteria because you can't see them. It took an uneducated Dutch reformed fabric salesman, Antony Van Leeuwenhoek, to build the microscopes needed to discover microbiology.
Click to expand...

Yeah its the ultimate straw man, I'm 48yrs old and have yet to meet a christian who rejects science... Atheist goon squad in 4..3..2..1
 
Gringo allstar said:
Yeah its the ultimate straw man, I'm 48yrs old and have yet to meet a christian who rejects science... Atheist goon squad in 4..3..2..1
Click to expand...

I love science. And I hate that because I'm Christian I'm supposed to be left out of it or something, or that any of the things I bring up by Christian scientist is not included or disregarded. As though being an atheist scientist somehow makes you better than any other in the same field. Yes I believe in God. I also believe in dinosaurs, space, back holes etc etc. The only thing I don't believe is evolution. I might even read about the Big Bang from time to time as a possible answer as to how God formed the universe, but not as an answer to how it formed us. There is a lot of evidence in the scientific community that points to God. It would be insane to think there has been enough to disprove Him.
 
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chad1389 said:
I love science. And I hate that because I'm Christian I'm supposed to be left out of it or something, or that any of the things I bring up by Christian scientist is not included or disregarded. As though being an atheist scientist somehow makes you better than any other in the same field. Yes I believe in God. I also believe in dinosaurs, space, back holes etc etc. The only thing I don't believe is evolution. I might even read about the Big Bang from time to time as a possible answer as to how God formed the universe, but not as an answer to how it formed us. There is a lot of evidence in the scientific community that points to God. It would be insane to think there has been enough to disprove Him.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
I have no problem with people of faith, be they Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Rastafarian, Sinto, Buddhist, Daoism, Satanism or pagan. What I do object to is any religion or faith attempting to fuse itself into our secular government, education and laws. For example, the myth that the US is a Christian nation is an anathema to me or the teaching of "fundamentalist science" (which is an oxymoron) which I strenuously object to in public schools.
Click to expand...

1. That America is a Christian nation is simply a fact and a debate that has adready been had here and won (by me).

2. Never heard of "Christian science". Are you talking about intelligent design? If so, all I.D. does is simply state the obvious which is that since the universe appears designed then there must be a designer. I.D. has it's limits (just as all the sciences do) and cannot tell us who the designer is. As such, I.D. can no more be called a "Christian science" anymore than it can be called islamic science or buddhist science of even the flying spaghetti monster science.
 
More and more often, we do know. And there's less room out there for a god to hide in.
 
Gringo allstar said:
Yeah its the ultimate straw man, I'm 48yrs old and have yet to meet a christian who rejects science... Atheist goon squad in 4..3..2..1
Click to expand...

In fact, a lot of Christians ARE scientists themselves, not just message board posters.

Most of the claptrap you read from atheists comes from the Scopes trial, which in itself was a publicity stunt. The Scopes trial got people to thinking that Christians were "un-scientific". Prior to that, some of the greatest scientists in history were Christians, or Jews.
 
The Baron said:
1. That America is a Christian nation is simply a fact and a debate that has adready been had here and won (by me).2. Never heard of "Christian science". Are you talking about intelligent design? If so, all I.D. does is simply state the obvious which is that since the universe appears designed then there must be a designer. I.D. has it's limits (just as all the sciences do) and cannot tell us who the designer is. As such, I.D. can no more be called a "Christian science" anymore than it can be called islamic science or buddhist science of even the flying spaghetti monster science.
Click to expand...

1. Debates seldom answer the question of what's right or wrong, it determines who is the best debater. True debates are judged by unbiased third parties and not by those involved in the debate. Quotes about Christianity from famous people who are dead are meaningless unless it is spelled out specifically in the US Constitution, which does not state any such thing. If a Christian firmly believes that the US is a Christian nation, then to that person, it is. Faith is a very powerful tool as it requires no proof to sustain it. Despite the preponderance of facts and evidence to the contrary, those whom want to believe it as a matter of Christian faith, will always believe it.

2. My bad, poor choice of words. I should have said "right wing christian science." I've read and studied the "Summa Theologica" by Aquinas in college, who addressed the concept of the existence of a God. In it, he used the best science of the day to philosophically state such a being exists. I give him credit because he did not malign or contort science with his Catholicism and depended a lot on the logic as ascertained by philosophers such a Plato, Aristotle and Augustine in his dialectics. This contrasts with today's Christian science deniers who depend solely on their strict interpretation of the bible, which is hardly academic and is myth, at best.
 
Medusa said:
we make such philosophic discussions in the philosophie forum ,fadyra.

but I can say from my own experiences that the questnioning of our universe and the roots of our existence usually ends in ' GOD '.
Click to expand...

That is because you believe in God. In my experience, people have what is known as 'confirmation bias', and they end of with the conclusion of what they already believe.
 
Faydra said:
We don't know' is a wonderful, fulfilling, inquisitive, and terrifying answer!

A lot of what you see around you came to be because the answer used to be 'I don't know'. Our understanding of the world, and the universe around us is improved because the answer to questions used to be 'I don't know'. And you know what? There are still a lot of questions where the answer is 'I don't know'. The 'I don't know's means we want to find out.

Humanity likes to live in a cave. It's dark, and comforting. It's home, and filled with what we know. The world outside is bright, and frightening. It's dangerous and uncertain.

Outside the cave,there's thunder and lightning. At the back of the cave is the shaman screaming and yelling that the thunder and lightning means that the gods are angry. At the front of the cave, someone is looking up at the sky, wondering 'Why does it do that'? The answer is, 'I don't know. But I want to find out!'.

To many, 'god' is not an answer.

What is over the next hill? God.
How do birds fly? God.
Where did we come from? God.
What are the pinpricks of light in the night sky? God.

Change the answer to 'I don't know', and we can learn more. We, right now, have a pretty good grasp on the actual answers of the above. We can travel over the next hill to find an answer. We can study birds to find out how they stay in the sky. We have a good grasp on where humanity came from, even if the answer on how life began is still a little uncertain. As for the stars? We know what they are, how they form, and how they die.

'I don't know' has given us many of the technologies we take for granted. What is Mars really like? Well, to find out, we've sent probes that we can control from right here on earth! The latest rover was transported to Mars, and lowered on a rocket powered sky crane. Safely. The answer of 'god' would not give us anything useful about mars, or how to get a rover to another planet.

Of course, big questions may never find a suitable answer. How did the universe start? Well, we have a lot of ideas, but nothing concrete. It was a mind-boggingly long time ago, after all.

Evolution is also not a 'failed theory'. It is, in fact, pretty darn useful, teaching us more on how life adapts, and helping us fight diseases. Evolution is true. The theory is just the explanation on how it happens.

It should also be noted that no answer we changed from 'We don't know' to 'now we know' has ever included the phrase 'and therefore there is no god'. The existence or non-existence of a god is irrelevant. Since we cannot prove that one exists, we just ignore it since we find answers anyways.

Trying to place an answer of 'We don't know, therefore god' is limiting. Very limiting to ourselves, the universe around us, and to our own curiosity and intellect.

Are you going to stay at the back of the cave, screaming that the thunder and lighting are proof that the gods are angry? Or are you going to join us in the frightening, terrifying light in order to find a new answer rather than 'We don't know'?
Click to expand...



I left the cave a long time ago, I'm old.

And guess what.....we don't "know".

We have answers, answers that with further inquiry change. Does evolution negate God? That should be the next question, not a dusting of hands and "there, that proves God does not exist. That's "settled".

There isn't anything that isn't damned that it "settled".
 
chad1389 said:
I love science. And I hate that because I'm Christian I'm supposed to be left out of it or something, or that any of the things I bring up by Christian scientist is not included or disregarded. As though being an atheist scientist somehow makes you better than any other in the same field. Yes I believe in God. I also believe in dinosaurs, space, back holes etc etc. The only thing I don't believe is evolution. I might even read about the Big Bang from time to time as a possible answer as to how God formed the universe, but not as an answer to how it formed us. There is a lot of evidence in the scientific community that points to God. It would be insane to think there has been enough to disprove Him.
Click to expand...
Science doesn't leave out anyone. You're free to accept the answers it's collectively supplied thanks to the work of people of all corners of the earth. The only people left out of science are those that leave themselves out.
 
Fearandloathing said:
We have answers, answers that with further inquiry change. Does evolution negate God? That should be the next question, not a dusting of hands and "there, that proves God does not exist. That's "settled".
Click to expand...

Nowhere in my post did I say any such thing. You just automatically assume because I'm an athiest that I'm out to prove God doesn't exist, when I said EXACTLY the opposite.

I'm out of religious discussions here, I think... There's no discussion, people see something against their own belief and shut down, and the insults fly. Life's too short for that.

Have fun.
 
Faydra said:
Nowhere in my post did I say any such thing. You just automatically assume because I'm an athiest that I'm out to prove God doesn't exist, when I said EXACTLY the opposite.

I'm out of religious discussions here, I think... There's no discussion, people see something against their own belief and shut down, and the insults fly. Life's too short for that.

Have fun.
Click to expand...

Waaaiiiit! Don't go! Here. Look at these grapes. Egyptian grapes. Yes maam. The finest Egyptian grapes. Yes, they're sour, but that's why they're prized. Come. Let's haggle over price.
 
Faydra said:
Nowhere in my post did I say any such thing. You just automatically assume because I'm an athiest that I'm out to prove God doesn't exist, when I said EXACTLY the opposite.

I'm out of religious discussions here, I think... There's no discussion, people see something against their own belief and shut down, and the insults fly. Life's too short for that.

Have fun.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand how the religion forum works. First, the non-believers demand empirical proof that God exists, knowing full well there isn't any. Then the believers take offense and offer an apologetic which is mocked. Then the believers mock the non-believers for not believing. Then the non-believers ask for empirical proof....and so it goes. I am a believer, BTW. I don't think, however, that we will ever know enough to "know". That does not mean that I don't endorse the pursuit of knowledge. I do endorse it. At the bottom of all of this I feel a deep and profound sympathy for those who attempt to justify their sincere beliefs here. As nearly as I can tell, the mocking will continue. Don't hold it against them. People tend to get defensive pretty quickly here in this forum. I generally avoid it because I'm not about to tell anybody anonymus my personal experiences in this regard. They are profound, and I will not have them mocked.
 
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