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A Sense of God[W:288]

Re: A Sense of God

There are often times when things spiral out of control, and it becomes very obvious that we as individuals no longer have control of the situation. It's time to step away and just let things work themselves out on their own. For me, a "prayer" is not so much asking god to solve my problem, than it is letting go of it and letting, fate, the universe, even god take the ball.

But why call on the name of, God? :lol:


On one hand you're calling on His name (to let go and dump your problem on His lap).....and yet, you're denying Him the credit for taking on your problem! :mrgreen:



Let go of your pride, Calamity.
That's what's stopping you from "connecting" with Him. You resist.....you don't want to humble and
open yourself up to Him. Deep down, you know He exist.
 
Re: A Sense of God

I have to point out some facts about Marcus Borg (Progressive Christianity). His teachings would be classified as
false teachings since he denied important Christian tenets. The Scriptures is full of warnings about false teachers. Followers, beware. The onus is on us to discern.

That is not relevant when it comes to a 'sense of god'.

How do you know that you are not being the false teacher, or listening to the false teacher??

How do you know that your 'experience' of God' is not merely an event in your own brain, with no external source, and the wish fulfillment that it is something more? Could it be that your 'experience with God' is something more mundane that you are interpreting as a 'god experience' due to social expectations?? How would you know,and how can you show others that it is an actual experience of God/


Will you answer that honestly, or will you go into preach mode?
 
Re: A Sense of God

That is not relevant when it comes to a 'sense of god'.

How do you know that you are not being the false teacher, or listening to the false teacher??

How do you know that your 'experience' of God' is not merely an event in your own brain, with no external source, and the wish fulfillment that it is something more? Could it be that your 'experience with God' is something more mundane that you are interpreting as a 'god experience' due to social expectations?? How would you know,and how can you show others that it is an actual experience of God/


Will you answer that honestly, or will you go into preach mode?

Isn't it a symptom of delusion that you are not actually aware of your delusion?
 
Re: A Sense of God

Isn't it a symptom of delusion that you are not actually aware of your delusion?

Now, that depends. I know several people who have schizoid affective disorder, and are also bi-polar. They hear voices in their head. On the other hand, they know those voices are just their own brain wonking out. Would they be considered deluded?
 
Re: A Sense of God

Now, that depends. I know several people who have schizoid affective disorder, and are also bi-polar. They hear voices in their head. On the other hand, they know those voices are just their own brain wonking out. Would they be considered deluded?

Surely knowing how you are mad is a very mind stabilizing or sane thing to be able to do. ??

They might have wonkey brains but sound minds.
 
Re: A Sense of God

But why call on the name of, God? :lol:


On one hand you're calling on His name (to let go and dump your problem on His lap).....and yet, you're denying Him the credit for taking on your problem! :mrgreen:



Let go of your pride, Calamity.
That's what's stopping you from "connecting" with Him. You resist.....you don't want to humble and
open yourself up to Him. Deep down, you know He exist.

I wouldn't define it as "calling on His name." It's more a letting go of earthly control and putting fate in the hands of forces greater than I. What's left is simply trying to understand what, if anything, lies beneath those forces.

I see no conflict between that and these words.

%5C27%5C2710%5CL87ND00Z.jpg
 
Re: A Sense of God

The "I am" experience is "proof", so to speak, of existence.

This phenomenon of existence alone is beyond our ability to comprehend even remotely close to completely.

Because we can't remotely comprehend it all, we are left to conclude, logically, that there is more to existence than we can comprehend.

But our need to comprehend at times causes us to speculate to fill in the gaps.

Religions can result.

That's not to say that God does not exist, as not only are God and religion not mutually inclusive in some such speculations, but existence is such a difficult experience to grasp in all its incredible awesome facets, that when we begin to ponder what it would be like should we suddenly cease to exist .. well, it's difficult to comprehend that all would be lost, our self as well. Something, or someone must keep it all going.

I find it interesting that we have a tendency to create God in a way that we can comprehend and manage to relieve us of the terror that comes from the speculation of death.

Some say that we're not just creating God in our own image, but that God is providing us with a glimpse we can handle, each of us having a different though sometimes compatible glimpse.

Regardless, if two people sit in a room, they can both look at each other and say, "I am, and no one else is me." Each experiences only their own self. So if I, all my life, have been just me, each person I meet has experienced the same thing, logically, the experience of being a "me" distinct and apart from my own self .. but I can't experience them as a "me" -- only they can experience that, and, they do.

That can be mind-boggling, that my "I am" is isolated, so to speak, from everyone else's same experience, and that I have always been only me, sometimes such that it's almost as if no one else exists but me .. even though they do.

How can that be? It is .. .. but, how, how can that be?

And each one of us experiences the universe, and we do so as if we were at the the very center of it all, at the very dynamic middle between our macrocosm and our microcosm of all that is.

All this can tell me that being alive is not just limited to me, that others, too, are alive and experience this awesome existence from an alone "I am" place, of which I am an integral part.

My awareness of the vastness of the universe I perceive causes me to logically speculate that such "I am" beings may exist elsewhere, outside and inside me.

My perception of the universe I conceive of, taking it as a whole, makes me ponder beyond my capabilities, how can this all exist and why and by what means?

Maybe I'm a composition of all that is outside me and all that is inside me merging into a singularity, a dynamic living singularity created from all, from all that is, from all that is alive in its own way.

And how has this all come about?

Just because God is a natural conclusion doesn't mean God is merely only a creation of our own speculative facilities.

Sometimes, yes, we speculate what later appears as falsely.

But sometimes we speculate truly, whether we know it or not ..

.. And such speculation might also be a form of communication.

So God simply might be the name of the universe, the ultimate "I am" ..

.. Or much, much more.

But something as our universe we're just beginning to grasp, something so infinitely immense in all its aspects, .. well, how could something like that exist, simply exist without being created, created by something .. or some "one".

I believe that our speculation can be a form of communication, received and engrained upon us.

The very fact that I can merge with another "I am" and create a third "I am", that alone, may be sufficient "proof", both logically and emotionally, that such a creator, God, exists.
 
Re: A Sense of God

I wouldn't define it as "calling on His name." It's more a letting go of earthly control and putting fate in the hands of forces greater than I. What's left is simply trying to understand what, if anything, lies beneath those forces.

I see no conflict between that and these words.

%5C27%5C2710%5CL87ND00Z.jpg



There is a conflict. Jesus taught that prayer - among other things - and it's clear to whom it's directed specifically! Didn't He teach about the first commandment being the most important of all?

Like I said..... obviously you're calling out to Him, and yet at the same time you try to deny Him. :shrug:


I don't know how you'd feel if you did something at work that was praise-worthy, but then your boss turned around and thanked another employee for it!

Whom are you kidding?
 
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Re: A Sense of God

There is a conflict. Jesus taught that prayer - among other things - and it's clear to whom it's directed specifically! Didn't He teach about the first commandment being the most important of all?

Like I said..... obviously you're calling out to Him, and yet at the same time you try to deny Him. :shrug:


I don't know how you'd feel if you did something at work that was praise-worthy, but then your boss turned around and thanked another employee for it!

Whom are you kidding?

Looking at the words, one can ignore the myths associated with them and simply see them as a means of submitting to a higher power--whatever that power may be makes no real difference.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Looking at the words, one can ignore the myths associated with them and simply see them as a means of submitting to a higher power--whatever that power may be makes no real difference.

Why are you even citing the The Lord's Prayer if you believe it's associated with "myths?"
Christians know who that Lord is, also called as the Father! It surely ain't the universe.
The title of the prayer says it all! :lol:
 
Re: A Sense of God

Looking at the words, one can ignore the myths associated with them and simply see them as a means of submitting to a higher power--whatever that power may be makes no real difference.


What "submitting" are you on about? You're not submitting if you're being defiant!

Of course it makes all the difference!

If that Power to whom that prayer has been composed for, specifically commanded you to glorify, and worship Him as your GOD .....obviously, your obedience is required!
 
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Re: A Sense of God

The "I am" experience is "proof", so to speak, of existence.

This phenomenon of existence alone is beyond our ability to comprehend even remotely close to completely.

Because we can't remotely comprehend it all, we are left to conclude, logically, that there is more to existence than we can comprehend.

But our need to comprehend at times causes us to speculate to fill in the gaps.

Religions can result.

That's not to say that God does not exist, as not only are God and religion not mutually inclusive in some such speculations, but existence is such a difficult experience to grasp in all its incredible awesome facets, that when we begin to ponder what it would be like should we suddenly cease to exist .. well, it's difficult to comprehend that all would be lost, our self as well. Something, or someone must keep it all going.

I find it interesting that we have a tendency to create God in a way that we can comprehend and manage to relieve us of the terror that comes from the speculation of death.

Some say that we're not just creating God in our own image, but that God is providing us with a glimpse we can handle, each of us having a different though sometimes compatible glimpse.

Regardless, if two people sit in a room, they can both look at each other and say, "I am, and no one else is me." Each experiences only their own self. So if I, all my life, have been just me, each person I meet has experienced the same thing, logically, the experience of being a "me" distinct and apart from my own self .. but I can't experience them as a "me" -- only they can experience that, and, they do.

That can be mind-boggling, that my "I am" is isolated, so to speak, from everyone else's same experience, and that I have always been only me, sometimes such that it's almost as if no one else exists but me .. even though they do.

How can that be? It is .. .. but, how, how can that be?

And each one of us experiences the universe, and we do so as if we were at the the very center of it all, at the very dynamic middle between our macrocosm and our microcosm of all that is.

All this can tell me that being alive is not just limited to me, that others, too, are alive and experience this awesome existence from an alone "I am" place, of which I am an integral part.

My awareness of the vastness of the universe I perceive causes me to logically speculate that such "I am" beings may exist elsewhere, outside and inside me.

My perception of the universe I conceive of, taking it as a whole, makes me ponder beyond my capabilities, how can this all exist and why and by what means?

Maybe I'm a composition of all that is outside me and all that is inside me merging into a singularity, a dynamic living singularity created from all, from all that is, from all that is alive in its own way.

And how has this all come about?

Just because God is a natural conclusion doesn't mean God is merely only a creation of our own speculative facilities.

Sometimes, yes, we speculate what later appears as falsely.

But sometimes we speculate truly, whether we know it or not ..

.. And such speculation might also be a form of communication.

So God simply might be the name of the universe, the ultimate "I am" ..

.. Or much, much more.

But something as our universe we're just beginning to grasp, something so infinitely immense in all its aspects, .. well, how could something like that exist, simply exist without being created, created by something .. or some "one".

I believe that our speculation can be a form of communication, received and engrained upon us.

The very fact that I can merge with another "I am" and create a third "I am", that alone, may be sufficient "proof", both logically and emotionally, that such a creator, God, exists.

This thought process would pretty much demonstrate what's happening in my head as I ponder these things. My questions grow from a central thought: is god real; to seeking knowledge of the bigger picture of the universe as a whole. Ideas suddenly spread out like tentacles to uncover more and more uncertainty on a vast range of issues.

Is the universe or perhaps the multiverse itself god--god as more of an all encompassing force which unites all the "I am" beings into one vast force of nature? What's it mean when we interact with the other I am beings, as we do here in virtual space, for example, sharing thoughts and ideas without actually being in each other's physical space? What is real and what is virtual--and, is there really a difference.
 
Re: A Sense of God

What "submitting" are you on about? You're not submitting if you're being defiant!

Of course it makes all the difference!

If that Power to whom that prayer has been composed for, specifically commanded you to glorify, and worship Him as your GOD .....obviously, your obedience is required!

No offense, but I believe you may want to broaden your horizons. I'm looking for a more nuanced version of "god" than that which was preached by desert dwellers over 3000 years ago.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Why are you even citing the The Lord's Prayer if you believe it's associated with "myths?"
Christians know who that Lord is, also called as the Father! It surely ain't the universe.
The title of the prayer says it all! :lol:

Father could, and is, easily interpreted to mean that which laid the seed to that which is now us all, and that can most definitely be thought of as the universe or some mysterious underlying force.

Personally, I believe it's Christians who misinterpret the words attributed to Christ and not the other way around.
 
Re: A Sense of God

That is not relevant when it comes to a 'sense of god'.

It is relevant because it was brought up.


How do you know that you are not being the false teacher, or listening to the false teacher??

Of course you have to ask such question. You hardly know anything about the Old Testament at all - which is related to the New Testament. The answer lies on those two books.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Ramoss

How do you know that your 'experience' of God' is not merely an event in your own brain, with no external source, and the wish fulfillment that it is something more? Could it be that your 'experience with God' is something more mundane that you are interpreting as a 'god experience' due to social expectations?? How would you know, and how can you show others that it is an actual experience of God.


Funny how you try to give all the possibilities that it could be anything else, except God. Why couldn't it be God?

If there is undeniable proof, there could only be that conclusion. I have several personal experiences (and I know of others who'd had their personal experiences, too).
Here are just some of my experiences:


* I was new and a casual, and desperately needed a regular job. I applied for a position, and Human Resources told me that I don't have a chance since there were 7 other employees - more senior than I - who'd also applied for the job. I prayed to God. The next morning, Human Resources called me and said, "I don't know what happened but all the applicants had changed their minds. You have the job if you want it."



* My cat (whom I consider "the cat of my life") was dying. She was doing what the vet told me will happen when she'll die.
She wasn't eating and drinking at all for several days. I prayed to God and humbly asked if He could give me some more time with her, and if not I thank Him for having given her to me. The next morning when I checked up on her before going to work, she suddenly stood up and ate!
There was a "follow-up reassurance" from God that the cat will be fine (which was humorous in the way it was given!)

God had given me an extra 1 year and a half with her. She's an elderly cat (17), and recently passed away. Even her passing was "beautiful."
The day before she died, she came up to me and offered her face (just as she always do when she wants a kiss - yes, she knows what a kiss is).
I knew she was going to die. The next day when I came home from work she was still up. It's just like she waited for me to come home because an hour after that, she went downhill. I was whispering to her as she laid dying to go ahead and "sleep now" (I asked God to not let her suffer). It went fast.
Sure there was this sense of great loss at her passing, but it wasn't as painful as I thought it would've been.



* I quit a full-time job for petty reason, that even I was surprised by my own action! My co-worker (a JW) was concerned, called me up and asked me, "what will you do? You have no job." I said, "it's all up to God." (or something like that.) That night I got a call from somebody who was offering me a full-time job as a nanny. At first I turned it down because I haven't been working with kids for 5 years - but my husband advised me to listen to what they offer. I met with the family, the condition was more than fair and they gave the rate I asked for!
It was that job that brought me right back doing what I strongly think God want me to do - working with the youth again. That was 4 years ago. I think it might've been in preparation for this new adventure that my husband and I have now both embarked on.



* I was taking a shower, and was going to attend a workshop sponsored by Billy Graham. As I was in the shower I was talking casually to God in my head and asking Him to guide me. I was concerned about the way I was conducting my debates in forums.
I said, "I'm afraid that I might be turning people off."
When I got to the workshop, it was a few minutes early so I waited reading their give-out pamphlets. I was still reading when the speaker came on testing the microphone. Suddenly he boomed (his voice was like John Goodman's) and asked: ARE YOU AFRAID YOU MIGHT BE TURNING PEOPLE OFF? Then he proceeded to give a demonstration with the light switches, and answered my question. When I got home that afternoon, I was buoyed and feeling confident I'm okay. But by the time I went to bed, I wasn't sure again....thinking what if that answer was just a coincident. When I opened the Bible, the reaffirmation was there: the verse showed Jesus "debating" quite aggressively and quoting His sources (which is the Old Testament!)
It was the feeling of reassurance that settled which makes it so significant - you'll know.



* I was reading the Bible before going to work and came upon a verse when God promised someone (can't recall right now) that He'll raise him up. I paused from reading and asked God if He could please "raise" me up a bit , income-wise.
That same day, as I was leaving work to go home, my boss just casually said: "Oh, by the way....we decided to give you a raise." I was given 25% raise.
(It's that word, "raise"....I knew then God wanted me to take note! This is the answer. :))
 
Re: A Sense of God

Ramoss
How do you know that your 'experience' of God' is not merely an event in your own brain, with no external source, and the wish fulfillment that it is something more? Could it be that your 'experience with God' is something more mundane that you are interpreting as a 'god experience' due to social expectations?? How would you know,and how can you show others that it is an actual experience of God.



* Just this past summer I was walking to the bank to cash my paycheck. As I was walking I was musing how will God take care of me should I happen to lose my job, or if I can't work. When I got to the bank and opened my envelope I found two cheques. One was my regular paycheque, and the other was a bonus for $5,000.

He has His ways.
It's that feeling of reassurance that is so....I can't find the appropriate word right now, so let's just say....wonderful.



Handing over the car and being a passenger, with God on the driver seat - even when the ride gets too bumpy - you feel secure in the knowledge that He'll get you there.

The road He takes you may not what you think is best - but He knows the way more than we do.



My husband and I just had a recent intervention by God, but I'm not ready to talk about that yet.



Given that I prayed to the specific God....and those samples of responses were given, of course there's only one conclusion: MY God - whom I prayed to - responded.
 
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Re: A Sense of God

Isn't it a symptom of delusion that you are not actually aware of your delusion?

That's why I wonder about Calamity! I've had a good mental work-out trying to figure out her OP.

She admits she knows that she's deluding herself by worshipping what she considers, imaginary - yet she goes through the motion anyway! :lol:


That would be like knowing Santa Claus is only imaginary, yet she makes this long list of presents she wants to get at Christmas. She leaves the milk and cookies for him, and goes to bed early. The next day she runs to the tree....

....and she pretends to be disappointed to find no presents there (unless she bought, wraps and leaves the presents for herself - then she jumps up and down, jubilant that Santa answered her request!). She must've been a very good girl. :mrgreen:
 
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Re: A Sense of God

No offense, but I believe you may want to broaden your horizons. I'm looking for a more nuanced version of "god" than that which was preached by desert dwellers over 3000 years ago.

Why do I have to search some more...when the searching is over for me? It's as the Scriptures had said!

The God whom I pray to, actually responds to His believers. He is not some "unidentifiable" mystic or cosmic force romanticised by new age mentality!

He is real! To me, and to others who believe in Him. That's the whole point, isn't it?
 
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Re: A Sense of God

I think about the concept of "god" a lot. It's not something I take lightly. And, the thoughts are more or less filling my need for understanding things which are not easily understood. Why are we here, what's it all about, is this all there is? I look that way too when confronted with random acts or when looking for guidance on a subconscious level.

Within a reasonable level of certainty, I am confident that the gods of this or that religion do not exist, especially not as described in the various texts or spoken through religious dogma. However, I would not go so far as to say there is not something, real or imagined, which can be tapped into during a time of need that gives comfort and the illusion of control: A loved one is going in for life-threatening surgery, so, I pray to "god," and let said prayer still my heart. That sort of thing.

Maybe that's what it's all about. God, the imaginary friend who can pull us through when times get rough. I guess that makes sense to me. And, perhaps, those who take it to the extremes by worshiping their imaginary friend on a daily basis and othering people who worship differently are simply taking it down a road I do not feel comfortable traveling. Or, maybe they are just more delusional. Don't know.
I don't find god worship to be particularly useful. What I got out of the faith was the surrounding social structure, but I don't feel that worship itself ever did anything for me.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Now, that depends. I know several people who have schizoid affective disorder, and are also bi-polar. They hear voices in their head. On the other hand, they know those voices are just their own brain wonking out. Would they be considered deluded?

No, I would say that they are the the opposite of deluded.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Why do I have to search some more...when the searching is over for me? It's as the Scriptures had said!

The God whom I pray to, actually responds to His believers. He is not some "unidentifiable" mystic or cosmic force romanticised by new age mentality!

He is real! To me, and to others who believe in Him. That's the whole point, isn't it?

Not in the philosophical forum. Your steadfast adherence to the dogma of scripture is more suited for the religious forum. Here we discuss alll the options, which you repeatedly have shown yourself incapable of doing, preferring instead to proselytize.
 
Re: A Sense of God

I don't find god worship to be particularly useful. What I got out of the faith was the surrounding social structure, but I don't feel that worship itself ever did anything for me.

Interesting is that I find the exact opposite. For me, personal--I would not call it worship--private thoughts which allow me to let go of the very difficult job of controlling every aspect of an event provides comfort. The social aspect of religion, especially when socializing with the deeply religious, makes me uncomfortable, mostly because I do not believe the childish myths almost all of them profess to believe is for them all to real. I end up holding back my thoughts, biting my tongue, if you will, too much and find that stressful.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Not in the philosophical forum. Your steadfast adherence to the dogma of scripture is more suited for the religious forum. Here we discuss alll the options, which you repeatedly have shown yourself incapable of doing, preferring instead to proselytize.

Nail hit on head, firmly.
 
Re: A Sense of God

Nail hit on head, firmly.

In my mind there are only two reasons for those who are glued to their particular religion to be debating the god issue here.

1, They have just enough doubt to remain curious and wish to broaden their horizons

2. They're selling it.
 
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