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Why do we suffer ?

Amadeus said:
. I've already rejected Jesus as my savior. I might as well throw in with Lucifer, if those are my options.
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Just curious - on what basis did you reject Jesus as your savior?
 
How can we not? At the most basic level, we have to suffer pain, thirst and hunger. Our life is one long attempt to alleviate suffering, it is what drives us.

We suffer because we live.
 
Logicman said:
Just curious - on what basis did you reject Jesus as your savior?
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Lets count the ways. I don't believe in God (1), I don't believe that Jesus was God (2), and I don't believe one man can die for my "sins" (3).

If Jesus existed (4), he was a reformer of Judaic religion. Which is great for people who partake in that religion. It needed reforming.

I have no problem with Jesus as a man. He seemed like a great guy for his time.
 
Northern Light said:
I don't mean to split hairs but the concept of suffering needs to be delineated a lot in order for this discussion to be effective.

Suffering and pain are not the same thing. Being alive means you experience pain, also known as negative stimulation, in order to understand some of the consequences of one's environment, and of living. Pain is unavoidable.

Suffering is optional because it relates to how mind is used to frame the pain that's happening. It's like how in one instance someone can punch you in the arm lovingly to get a rise out of you, and in another case they're doing it because they hate you and want to hurt you. In one case you might suffer less, and in the other you might suffer more, even though the strength of the stimulation is the same. The only difference here is mind. One of the reasons why torture is not an effective means of truthful extraction of information is that people become desensitized to the pain through dissociation. So really, suffering is only a product of mind. If there's no mind, then suffering does not happen, even if the organism experiences constant pain. As organisms we instinctively move away from pain out of self-preservation, but we can suffer long after the pain is gone due to mental attachment.

Suffering in the existential sense refers to the constant state of "dissatisfactoriness" that everyone experiences, that nothing outside of oneself seems to quench for very long. Things that make us happy or pleased never seem to last forever and we can easily become trapped in the cycle of desire. Everything is temporal and there's nothing we can do to prevent change. In this case, we suffer because of attachment to things, instead of recognizing their temporal nature. Again, it relates to mind. True contentment can only come from this moment, and nothing beyond that. It is a choice and a practice, not something that's 'out there' to be found.
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a good comment but l already asked the suffering ,not pain
 
Medusa said:
it is what l feel now.
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Well I'm sorry to here that, but let me ask: to understand what joy is, don't you first need to understand what suffering is? Can you know happy without having understood sad?
 
Amadeus said:
Lets count the ways. I don't believe in God (1), I don't believe that Jesus was God (2), and I don't believe one man can die for my "sins" (3).

If Jesus existed (4), he was a reformer of Judaic religion. Which is great for people who partake in that religion. It needed reforming.

I have no problem with Jesus as a man. He seemed like a great guy for his time.
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You're welcome to your beliefs. I'll leave you with one book recommendation:

Norman Geisler.jpg
 
stonewall50 said:
Well I'm sorry to here that, but let me ask: to understand what joy is, don't you first need to understand what suffering is? Can you know happy without having understood sad?
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l suffer you thats why it is how l feel.hahah,,

anyway .stone.l wonder how you came to the point about me not knowing what suffering means
 
Medusa said:
share your feelings
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It isn't really about my feelings.
My best take on it, at this point in my evolution as a soul, is that we suffer in order that we may learn. Pain is one of the best teachers for humans. It leaves no doubt, and is straightforward, and if you're lucky, it opens up your heart and mind, to make you a better person. To think we're here for a good life, or that we don't deserve anything bad, is unrealistic. The goal (for me) is not to live a life without problems, but to live it effectively in spite of them.
 
lizzie said:
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My best take on it, at this point in my evolution as a soul, is that we suffer in order that we may learn. Pain is one of the best teachers for humans....
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Absolutely.

And a little off topic, but fear is one of the best motivators. Personally, I fear pain and suffering, so I am motivated to do things to avoid pain and suffering.

I also fear being broke, because being broke causes me suffering, and thus I go to work.
 
Amadeus said:
To me, that's why the notion of Heaven is abhorrent. A place bereft of suffering, of eternal life of happiness, is the epitome of hell.
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To me, the idea of "heaven" would be one of mindlessness. No desires, no happiness, no sorrow, no anything at all. Just a state of stillness.
 
Medusa said:
l suffer you thats why it is how l feel.hahah,,

anyway .stone.l wonder how you came to the point about me not knowing what suffering means
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No no no. That isn't what I mean. I know you know. That is why I asked. Because to define suffering shouldn't you understand what joy is? So how can you understand joy without suffering? That is my point.
 
stonewall50 said:
No no no. That isn't what I mean. I know you know. That is why I asked. Because to define suffering shouldn't you understand what joy is? So how can you understand joy without suffering? That is my point.
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hurt souls know both of them
 
Medusa said:
a good comment but l already asked the suffering ,not pain
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I know you did, but people in this thread are conflating suffering with pain. They aren't the same thing.
 
lizzie said:
To me, the idea of "heaven" would be one of mindlessness. No desires, no happiness, no sorrow, no anything at all. Just a state of stillness.
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But would you have an awareness at all? A thought process?
 
Northern Light said:
I know you did, but people in this thread are conflating suffering with pain. They aren't the same thing.
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Yea suffer relate to self consciousness and time awareness.
 
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