Prayer's Needed.. Why??

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

I'm also not religious, nor is my husband - both of us by choice. Our sons are also not religious, and were never Christened or anything else.

That said, I find myself asking for prayers when needed, and I also find myself responding to responses for prayers, and then I even find myself praying at times. Weird.

But yes, I get what you're saying here.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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I can't say I know unfortunately. The dynamic of prayer is lost upon me, I'd just end up going to sleep.

Also, I believe God has bounded himself. He is unable to interfere with our world in any way shape or form, especially when it comes to interference with humanity. HE CANNOT and WILL NOT interfere since he recognizes human independence.

I know we argue from time to time, But I said a prayer and wish you and yours well.
Good Luck, I hope things get better.

longview said:

I know we argue from time to time, But I said a prayer and wish you and yours well.
Good Luck, I hope things get better.

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Thank you, but I am not asking for prayer. I am just speaking in general. I am referring to appeals for prayer for the sick or injured.

I haven't been religious in awhile, but I will say "keep [so-and-so] in your thoughts." Or "I'll be keeping [so-and-so] in my thoughts." I completely understand what you're saying though, if you believe in a higher power then perhaps sometimes when bad things happen, those bad things were meant to happen?

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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No, plenty of non believers do. You don't understand the purpose of prayer, and I do not think it could be explained to you in a way that would make you understand. Especially since you choose to remain ignorant of what Scripture has to say on the matter.

Something to nebulous is hard to get a handle on but there's no evidence that prayer has any effect, other than consoling the prayee.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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My 82 year old mother has cancer, I have just posted in another thread a request for prayers on her behalf. What you may characterize as a prayer in the "sorry to tell you..." is not what I consider prayer and it is rather hurtful and insulting.

Thank you

SouthernDemocrat said:

Thank you, but I am not asking for prayer. I am just speaking in general. I am referring to appeals for prayer for the sick or injured.

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Sometimes it helps, if only in the idea that telling others of their troubles,
lets them bear their burdens better.
I think it could be phrased as "Misery loves company".

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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There's reasons for sickness and unanswered prayer:

Unanswered Prayers: The Most Common Reasons Why

You may have been raised a Christian but you obviously never knew the indwelling Holy Spirit, or you would have known it was real.

And it appears you never really studied the Bible, so I seriously doubt you ever gave Christianity a fair chance.

Logicman said:

There's reasons for sickness and unanswered prayer:

Unanswered Prayers: The Most Common Reasons Why

You may have been raised a Christian but you obviously never knew the indwelling Holy Spirit, or you would have known it was real.

And it appears you never really studied the Bible, so I seriously doubt you ever gave Christianity a fair chance.

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A big mmmmmmmmmmmmmk as the reason a prayer isn't answered. I guess everyone who prayed for world peace was unworthy? Maybe prayers go unanswered because it's a bit ridiculous to think there is an all powerful being who, if he/she/it exists, gives enough of a **** to actually care what some moron wants to happen.

Do you go around answering the prayers of ants? Would you if you could hear them? "Dear Human God, please let Vinny the Ant get his new job that he applied for as worker ant. He is really strong and he deserves it!" No ones gives a **** about Vinny the Ant.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:

"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:

"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."

Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]

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Well, sorry to tell you. You have failed as a human if you don't see the need to ask for help, even if its only spiritual, in tough times. Especially with a sick or injured family member.

Fearandloathing said:

My 82 year old mother has cancer, I have just posted in another thread a request for prayers on her behalf. What you may characterize as a prayer in the "sorry to tell you..." is not what I consider prayer and it is rather hurtful and insulting.

Thank you

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Of course it is, that is the purpose.

Sorry about your mom. I will pray for her, and you and yours.

countryboy said:

Of course it is, that is the purpose.

Sorry about your mom. I will pray for her, and you and yours.

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i know that, I simply had to register my contempt and demonstrate how impersonal and deliberately hurtful are atheists

Thank you, she will be delighted to hear people are praying for her, even though she is not a believer.....yet.

countryboy said:

No, plenty of non believers do. You don't understand the purpose of prayer, and I do not think it could be explained to you in a way that would make you understand. Especially since you choose to remain ignorant of what Scripture has to say on the matter.

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I know what scripture has to say on the matter. My point is that it seems to me that its neither morally or logically consistent.

SouthernDemocrat said:

I know what scripture has to say on the matter. My point is that it seems to me that its neither morally or logically consistent.

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Your contradictory statement shows you have no idea what Scripture has to day on the matter. Either that, or you simply refuse to accept it. In that case, what is the purpose of this thread? I think FAL has hit the nail on the head.

Fearandloathing said:

My 82 year old mother has cancer, I have just posted in another thread a request for prayers on her behalf. What you may characterize as a prayer in the "sorry to tell you..." is not what I consider prayer and it is rather hurtful and insulting.

Thank you

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My mother died of Cancer at age 56. It was as miserable of a death as you could possibly imagine. This was for a woman that was active, never smoked, never was obese, always took care of her health but just due to genetics had a high risk of cancer. My mother was also a lifelong Christian and was well known in her community for helping others. In fact, there was hardly a Christmas or Thanksgiving that we did not have someone that was homeless and or did not have a family eating with us. At the time she was really sick I remember thinking my mother is sick and in constant pain and while I appreciate the sentiment of her friends saying they will pray for her and I am sure that they did, why does God need all these people begging him to help her when he can obviously see himself that she is in horrible pain and enduring unimaginable suffering? If I were God you would not need half the community begging and pleading with me to get me to ease someone's suffering.

When my mother waited to find out that her cancer was chemo resistant. She prayed that she would have the strength to accept what would happen regardless of how bad it was. I can understand that prayer. I am not in any way against prayer. My point is when we pray to ask God to heal a sick child it seems to me that it makes God out to be a pretty bad guy. I mean why should he require a bunch of people to beg him to do what any decent person would do if they could? Moreover, if it is all part of God's plan, then why should a bunch of people begging him make any difference?

SouthernDemocrat said:

My mother died of Cancer at age 56. It was as miserable of a death as you could possibly imagine. This was for a woman that was active, never smoked, never was obese, always took care of her health but just due to genetics had a high risk of cancer. My mother was also a lifelong Christian and was well known in her community for helping others. In fact, there was hardly a Christmas or Thanksgiving that we did not have someone that was homeless and or did not have a family eating with us. At the time she was really sick I remember thinking my mother is sick and in constant pain and while I appreciate the sentiment of her friends saying they will pray for her and I am sure that they did, why does God need all these people begging him to help her when he can obviously see himself that she is in horrible pain and enduring unimaginable suffering? If I were God you would not need half the community begging and pleading with me to get me to ease someone's suffering.

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I get it, you don't like death. It happens to all of us. We die. It's what happens after that concerns me. But thanks for rubbing it in at a time of sorrow.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Thank you, but I am not asking for prayer. I am just speaking in general. I am referring to appeals for prayer for the sick or injured.

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People are asking for support to help give them some sense of comfort and you appear not willing to be a supportive person for them. Doesn't make either side wrong. Some people are just less empathetic than others.

Fearandloathing said:

I get it, you don't like death. It happens to all of us. We die. It's what happens after that concerns me. But thanks for rubbing it in at a time of sorrow.

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You are missing the entire point of the thread and personally attacking me in the process. I don't fear death. People die, I accept that. I accept that I will die one day. I am cool with that. None of that has anything to do with the thread.

The point of the thread is that when someone is sick, or missing, or in terrible danger, why is it that we think that God should require a bunch of people begging and pleading with him before he helps out? That is the implication of asking everyone to pray for a miracle.

Declan said:

People are asking for support to help give them some sense of comfort and you appear not willing to be a supportive person for them. Doesn't make either side wrong. Some people are just less empathetic than others.

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I am not talking about prayers for support. Asking for prayers to get through a difficult time is not what I am talking about. I am talking about prayers for a miracle. Basically, when one asks for everyone to pray for their loved one that is sick or injured or missing or in danger. I certainly understand the motivation for such an appeal. My question is, why does a supposedly loving and compassionate God require a bunch of people begging and pleading with him before he considers maybe helping someone?

SouthernDemocrat said:

I am not talking about prayers for support. Asking for prayers to get through a difficult time is not what I am talking about. I am talking about prayers for a miracle. Basically, when one asks for everyone to pray for their loved one that is sick or injured or missing or in danger. I certainly understand the motivation for such an appeal. My question is, why does a supposedly loving and compassionate God require a bunch of people begging and pleading with him before he consider maybe helping someone?

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Assuming that God exists at all, it should be painfully obvious that He doesn't micromanage human affairs. By analogy, a president (any president) may love his/her family, but that person still can't help every single American.

SouthernDemocrat said:

I am not talking about prayers for support. Asking for prayers to get through a difficult time is not what I am talking about. I am talking about prayers for a miracle. Basically, when one asks for everyone to pray for their loved one that is sick or injured or missing or in danger. I certainly understand the motivation for such an appeal. My question is, why does a supposedly loving and compassionate God require a bunch of people begging and pleading with him before he considers maybe helping someone?

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It is a cry for community and fellowship, a way for people to be there for someone in their community when there's absolutely nothing else they can do. Why does this bother you so?

clownboy said:

It is a cry for community and fellowship, a way for people to be there for someone in their community when there's absolutely nothing else they can do. Why does this bother you so?

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Praying for a miracle is still misguided. Remember that Janis Joplin song that began "Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?"