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There is no God and no afterlife thus live life to the fullest [W:104]

a351 said:
Nevermind. OP confirmed as cray-cray. I'm out.
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Good. Elimination is essential - otherwise, it'll be just a waste of time.
 
Dragonfly said:
There is no afterlife. This is it.

Repercussion? What???

So the only, and I mean ONLY reason you behave is because there might be repercussions AFTER you die?

The world is what the world is. Regardless of the fairy tale you chose to believe.

If I believe in pink unicorns that crap gold does that change anything in the world?

This idea that there MUST be something else is a manipulation and control mechanism.

Seriously - if infinite and conclusive proof was discovered that there is no god, and that there is no heaven, what would you do differently? Would you automatically become a "bad" person?
Would you start a violent crime wave against anyone who crossed your path? Would you start stealing? Would you start cheating on your spouse? Would you become a sexual deviant?

"Heaven", "Hell", and "God" are man-made inventions.

There does not HAVE to be something else besides what is.
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That's not the subject.
 
Gringo allstar said:
No different then porcelain tea cup chemical reaction fairy tales, we have more incommon then you think. And for someone who claims to have found the key to a wonderful existence why are you so hostile all the time? And isn't your porcelain cup analogy nothing more then a way to make yourself feel better and special? So where exactly do we differ? Other then me believing there is a God and you believing you are your own god I see no difference.
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I don't believe I am god, I believe I am a man in a world of other men, and I act as I would like to be treated. I debate and argue here so that I don't do it with family and friends. And no, we are not alike. My porcelain cup story was a metaphor, I did not base my entire life off an ancient text written by people I've never met.

tosca1 said:
The question is whether you can live life to the fullest. Wouldn't that involve pursuit of happiness?

Would a pedophile not pursue having sex with a child, as an example?
How can you say you've lived life to the fullest when you can't have and enjoy whatever it is you want?
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You sound like an absolute psychopath. Seriously. Get help and please keep your faith.

Fearandloathing said:
To you, I assume, having sex with your infant daughter is repulsive. Just as having your neighbor for dinner and he's the main course.

You probably are not an armed robber, don't sell drugs to kids or seduce your neighbor's wife after eating him.

Why? From where comes such a morals and "nice guy" stuff? Why do we have police and not survival of the fittest, from where comes the idea of personal responsibility, the idea of governments? All counter-intuitive to what you describe.
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Our compassion is evolutionary. Humans have been able to survive longer and live better by working together. I don't like being murdered or raped and neither did my forefathers. It just comes down to not being a ****ing asshole.

So what about you, would you rape and murder people if you lost your faith, assuming you have any?
 
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Tim the plumber said:
If you believe in repentance you can obviously do that sort of thing and not feel guilty for the rest of your life.

Personally I don't believe in such drivel. I am responsible for my actions. Always.

How come it's so hard for the God botherers to understand it? We fully understand your belief in the silly sky daddy. What's difficult in not believing in him?
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What is so wonderful about that "sky daddy" you elude to, is he gave everyone of the choice to accept Him or not. He's that kind of guy.
 
Hard Truth said:
Knowing that this is probably our only chance to experience living should encourage people to have more appreciation and respect for the fragile and (probably temporary] existence of both ourselves and others. In other words, we have to get it right the first (and only] time. Most intelligent people know this.
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But, realistically....not all people are intelligent. And, not everyone are born equal. Therefore, not everyone can have the full life that one would wish (which could be varied depending on individuals).

What might be more realistic would be the sense of desperation that would descend on everyone, wishing to ensure that life is lived to the fullest. Wouldn't a poor person want to live it up like the rich?

Can there be satisfaction? Can one be ever content?

And there still exists the human nature. That's a serious and scary thing to contend with.
 
tosca1 said:
You can have a moral standard even if you don't believe in God.

However, there is no moral standard if there is no God.
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How are these two statements consistent? You're saying there is no moral standard without belief in God yet acknowledge it's completely possible to have moral standards without a belief in God.
 
spud_meister said:
Are you saying all pedophiles are atheists? :lol:
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Yes. Read again.

If God doesn't exists - that's the scenario given -


wouldn't we be all atheists?
 
spud_meister said:
If you only behave morally because you fear punishment after death, then it's still a matter of behaving because of threat of force.
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Absolutely NOT, you have a choice to believe or not believe. If you do not believe then you have no fear of punishment as you put it. For those who do believe it is done out of love not fear for their God. They chose a path that is pleasing to Him out of love for Him.
 
X Factor said:
How are these two statements consistent? You're saying there is no moral standard without belief in God yet acknowledge it's completely possible to have moral standards without a belief in God.
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Read again. I didn't say there is no moral standard without belief in God.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I don't believe I am god, I believe I am a man in a world of other men, and I act as I would like to be treated. I debate and argue here so that I don't do it with family and friends. And no, we are not alike. My porcelain cup story was a metaphor, I did not base my entire life off an ancient text written by people I've never met.



You sound like an absolute psychopath. Seriously. Get help and please keep your faith.



Our compassion is evolutionary. Humans have been able to survive longer and live better by working together. I don't like being murdered or raped and neither did my forefathers. It just comes down to not being a ****ing asshole.

So what about you, would you rape and murder people if you lost your faith, assuming you have any?
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You didn't ask me, but I wouldn't because there isn't any part of me that would see that as enjoyable. The difference my faith makes in my life is not in failing to do things to others but in challenging me to do more for others and be more engaged with people that I'd, frankly, wouldn't otherwise.
 
BrewerBob said:
First, if the only reason you don't go around raping and killing is because you believe in a god then please, by all means, keep believing.

Those of us who don't believe in deities form our moral compass based on our upbringing and the kind of world we want to live in. I don't want to be raped and killed so I don't rape and kill and am in favor of society taking action to stop raping and killing. It has crap all to do with the supernatural.
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You're missing the point. Read the OP.
 
tosca1 said:
No. I said, OBJECTIVE!

Go back and read.
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And, if you read what I said, I basically was saying there IS no objective morality. Can you show that there is? Define what you think 'objective morality' is. Can you do that?
 
RAMOSS said:
Please define what you mean by 'OBJECTIVE MORALS'. Then, can you show that 'OBJECTIVE MORALS' actually exist, rather than play word games, and make unsupported claims? Can you show that the term 'objective moral' is something more then a metaphysical word game?
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Why don't you read and understand what you just quoted?
 
RAMOSS said:
And, if you read what I said, I basically was saying there IS no objective morality. Can you show that there is? Define what you think 'objective morality' is. Can you do that?
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Well, why don't you explain why you think there is no objective morality.

The very definition of objective morality should be sufficient enough to know what they are.....

.......especially when you're negating they exists. I assume you know what they are, right?


....how can you say something you don't know, doesn't exists? :lol:
 
tosca1 said:
If people believe that there is no God to answer to, that this life is the only life we'll ever experience....

What's the repercussion? Will you be able to "cherish" it to the full extent....to live it with full enjoyment?
Will you even be able to enjoy it at all? Or is that simply wishful thinking?

Assuming there is no God and an afterlife......

Can you imagine - realistically - the kind of world this would be?
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Uh, yeah. That's the world I and all atheists live in daily, because that's what seems most suggested by... reality.

Knowing we are brief sparks of light in a vast plane of nothing, and yet we all affect things, is pretty amazing all by itself. I don't need there be to fairies on the other side of the hill, in order to recognize that the hill itself is beautiful.

As far as your implications that with no one to "answer to," everyone would just rape and pillage, then I'd like you to explain a couple things to me.

1. Why are the most secular, least religious places on Earth also the most peaceful and prosperous?

2. Why are atheists so extremely under-represented in the prison system?

Some of us have an internal sense of ethics, and don't need some cosmic punisher to give us cookies or spankings, as though we were toddlers with no concept of other human beings. We're adults, and we have functioning minds and hearts all on our own.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Uh, yeah. That's the world I and all atheists live in daily, because that's what seems most suggested by... reality.

Knowing we are brief sparks of light in a vast plane of nothing, and yet we all affect things, is pretty amazing all by itself. I don't need there be to fairies on the other side of the hill, in order to recognize that the hill itself is beautiful.

As far as your implications that with no one to "answer to," everyone would just rape and pillage, then I'd like you to explain a couple things to me.

1. Why are the most secular, least religious places on Earth also the most peaceful and prosperous?

2. Why are atheists so extremely under-represented in the prison system?

Some of us have an internal sense of ethics, and don't need some cosmic punisher to give us cookies or spankings, as though we were toddlers with no concept of other human beings. We're adults, and we have functioning minds and hearts all on our own.
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Stick to the topic. Read the OP again..
 
tosca1 said:
Stick to the topic. Read the OP again..
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I did. You asked what it'd be like. I told you -- I live it every day.

You asked us to imagine a world where most people are that way. I informed you that most of the developed world is, except for America (and surprise surprise, American is trailing the rest of the West by almost every metric).

How about you try coming up with a decent rebuttal for once.
 
X Factor said:
You didn't ask me, but I wouldn't because there isn't any part of me that would see that as enjoyable. The difference my faith makes in my life is not in failing to do things to others but in challenging me to do more for others and be more engaged with people that I'd, frankly, wouldn't otherwise.
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That's because you're not a ****ing asshole. Tosca simply can't comprehend why anyone wouldn't rape and murder if there was no god. Some people are sociopathic powder kegs.
 
tosca1 said:
Why don't you read and understand what you just quoted?
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Yet, how is that 'objective' at all. What that seems to be is an arbitrary 'God said it is moral so it is', with no reason.. nor can you show that this 'objective moral' exists.

You can make claims about it, but demonstrate it?? Nope.
 
tosca1 said:
Yes. Read again.

If God doesn't exists - that's the scenario given -


wouldn't we be all atheists?
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But, obviously, belief in God doesn't stop people being pedophiles, so it's evident that morality exists separately from belief in gods.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I did. You asked what it'd be like. I told you -- I live it every day.

You asked us to imagine a world where most people are that way. I informed you that most of the developed world is, except for America (and surprise surprise, American is trailing the rest of the West by almost every metric).

How about you try coming up with a decent rebuttal for once.
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So you're now living life to its fullest. Okay. But, I don't think you can speak for others. If everyone is living life to its fullest, there wouldn't be a lot of protests going on everyday, there wouldn't be a lot of groaning about everything.

Anyway, you didn't answer the scenario I gave in the OP. You're living life the way it is now - with objective moral standards. There is a clear distinction between good and bad in your life right now.


I'm talking about the scenario where there is no good or bad - no moral standards - because God doesn't exists.
 
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