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Which religion is the correct one?

Which one is correct?

  • Christianity

    Votes: 13 22.4%

  • Islam

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • Hinduism

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • Judaism

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • None

    Votes: 42 72.4%
  • Total voters
    58
RogueWarrior said:
what a bizarre series of statements.
not sure where you are going with this
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If you believe your religion to be true then you should have voted for that religion. If you think your religion is BS but you practice it anyways then it is ok to pick, "none". Most people picked 'none'. How can that be if the majority of people call themselves Christian?
 
Quag said:
If God created them then they would be true.
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How so? I don't follow the logic. If God created a fake religion in order to mess with us that would make it untrue.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Did Joseph Smith find the answer for this question back in 1820?
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If you believe Joseph's testimony (and I do), and he and his brother Hyrum gave their lives for their testimonies, then Heavenly Father and Jesus told him directly in person that none were true, and to join none of them:

When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng
 
vasuderatorrent said:
How so? I don't follow the logic. If God created a fake religion in order to mess with us that would make it untrue.
Click to expand...

If God created more than one religion, none of them would be fake they would all be true.
Or do you not believe in the infinite power of God.
 
Ikari said:
I think he was too busy preaching racism and marrying 40 wives.
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Troll post with no accuracy. Joseph was 14 when he received the first vision in 1820 and the scriptures that he translated by the power of God contain strong statements against racism and slavery, and Joseph Smith even ran a third party campaign for President of the United States on a strong anti-slavery platform. His life was a complete opposite of spreading racism. The temporary ban of the priesthood to those of black African descent came after his martyrdom by Brigham Young. I will first cover why it is so unfair and dishonest to claim Joseph spread racism, and then I will show even with the priesthood ban, that it likely was something else besides racism.

About a year earlier on December 25, 1832 while praying in regards to slavery around the world, he received the following revelation, which was later printed in newspapers in England in the 1850's and recorded in Doctrine and Covenants section 87:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.
4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.



This prophecy covers the Civil War, the two World Wars, and possibly the third world freeing themselves from European imperialism after the European powers were devastated in the aftermath of the World Wars and later the collapse of Communism after the fall of the Soviet Union.



Nearly two years earlier than this Christmas revelation above, the coming Civil War was hinted at on the revelation Joseph received on Jan. 2, 1831 and recorded in Doctrine and Covenants section 38:

29 Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land.
30 I tell you these things because of your prayers; wherefore, treasure up wisdom in your bosoms, lest the wickedness of men reveal these things unto you by their wickedness, in a manner which shall speak in your ears with a voice louder than that which shall shake the earth; but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.
31 And that ye might escape the power of the enemy, and be gathered unto me a righteous people, without spot and blameless -
32 Wherefore, for this cause I gave unto you the commandment that ye should go to the Ohio; and there I will give unto you my law; and there you shall be endowed with power from on high; . . .



It was in Kirkland, Ohio that the first temple was built and the Saints received their first temple endowments.



On February 9, 1831 Joseph then received another revelation from the Lord that further hinted at the coming Civil War in D&C section 42:

64 And even now, let him that goeth to the east teach them that shall be converted to flee to the west, and this in consequence of that which is coming on the earth, and of secret combinations.



The Latter Day Saints avoided the Civil War in their exodus to the Rocky Mountains.



An interesting tidbit on the Christmas 1832 revelation. The LDS apostle Orson Hyde had been mocked by eastern papers after he gave a speech in 1850 that war was about to divide the nation. After the Civil War broke out in 1862 he wrote a "I told you so" letter to the editor of the Missouri Republican of Springfield. The following excerpt of this letter was printed in the Millennial Star on May 3, 1862:

"You have scarcely yet read the preface of your national trouble. Many nations will be drawn into the American maelstrom that now whirls through our land; and after many days, when the demon of war shall have exhausted his strength and madness upon American soil, by the destruction of all that can court or provoke opposition, he will remove his headquarters to the banks of the Rhine."

Millennial Star, 24 (3 May 1862):274-275, emphasis added.
 
The prophet Joseph Smith received the following revelation from the Lord in December 1833 recorded in the Doctrine And Covenants section 101:


77 According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for therights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;
78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.
79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondageone to another.
80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.



Here are some further quotes from the Book of Mormon against racism and/or slavery:

"33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them allto come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."


Nephi explained to his brothers that their Israelite fathers were favored by the Lord over the inhabitants that were already in the Promise Land when Moses under the direction of the Lord led them there only because they were righteous. If the inhabitants that were already there had been righteous they too would have been favored by God. Nephi makes it clear that God does not esteem one race above another race, and the LDS have always been taught that all human beings' spirits are the literal offspring of Divine Parents(God).
35 Behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh in one; he that is righteous is favored of God.




In another part of the Book of Mormon (sorry off the top of my head I cannot remember the exact verses) a prophet chastises his people for thinking they were better and more righteous than their darker skinned brethren just because of their lighter skin. He made it clear that skin color has nothing to do with a person's standing with God.


Slavery was against the law for the Nephites in the Book of Mormon. In the verses below the Lamanite king is converted to the Church, and the Nephite missionary Ammon, who was the son of the Nephite king, asks him if he will join the Nephite people if it is the will of the Lord to do so:


"7 And Ammon said: I will go and inquire of the Lord, and if he say unto us, go down unto our brethren, will ye go?
8 And the king said unto him: Yea, if the Lord saith unto us go, we will go down unto our brethren, and we will be their slaves until we repair unto them the many murders and sins which we have committed against them.
9 But Ammon said unto him: It is against the law of our brethren, which was established by my father, that there should be any slaves among them; therefore let us go down and rely upon the mercies of our brethren."


The people in the BoM were divided as Lamanites, Nephites, Zoramites, etc, throughout their history which was full of wars and contentions among each other. When the resurrected Jesus visited them and established peace in the land it states the following:
5 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.
16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.
17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.
18 And how blessed were they! For the Lord did bless them in all their doings


So the Book of Mormon is actually a critique against racism and slavery.
 
The reason why some believe the Book of Mormon is racist is because of a weak reading of the text that makes them misinterpret it. First the Lord darkens the skin of the Lamanites, who had rejected the Lord. The reason given for this change in pigmentation is to help keep the faithful Nephites from intermarrying with the Lamanites in order to keep their offspring from adopting their wicked cultural practices. Not politically correct but given the vast majority of people tend to associate and inter marry with people of the same skin color, it would be an effective tool to keep both societies separated as long as one accepts the Lord, and the other doesn't. The text makes it clear that the curse on the Lamanites is not their skin color but that they are in a state of spiritual apostasy of mot obeying the commandments of the Lord . Some of the most righteous people in the Book of Mormon tended to be the Lamanites who converted, and they received every blessing the lighter skinned Nephites who were righteous did. The lighter skin Nephites who were wicked were just as cursed as the darker skinned Lamanites who were wicked. The Book of Mormon makes the point that skin color has nothing to do with righteousness. That we are all sons or daughters of God and that those who are righteous are favored.

In the original 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon the following verses also caused some to misinterpret the Book of Mormon as being racist, when it is quite the opposite. These verses speak of the latter day conversion of many of the descendants of the Lamanites to the restored gospel: 5 And the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be declared among them; wherefore, they shall be restored unto the knowledge of their fathers, and also to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which was had among their fathers.
6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.

Ten years later in the 1840 printing of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith changed the word "white" to "pure" in the above verse. At the time Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon in 1829, "white" was a synonym for "pure". In Noah Webster, An American Dictionary of the English Language (New York: S. Converse, 1828) it states in regards to the word "white":
3. Having the color of purity; pure; clean; free from spot; as white robed innocence....5. Pure; unblemished....6. In a scriptural sense, purified from sin; sanctified. Psalm 51.
The Book of Mormon is a Semitic text, and the word "white" was not meant to be interpreted as what a typical American would view the word in regards to skin color, but is synonymous with pure in a spiritual sense. So the 1840 edition clarifies this by rendering it: 6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a "pure" and a delightsome people.
 
In July 1833 a LDS newspaper in Independence, Missouri wrote an article encouraging free slaves to settle in Missouri. In response to this article non LDS Missourians burnt down the printing press and the home of the editor.





After the U.S. government ignored the LDS pleas for help against mob violence, Joseph Smith ran as a third party candidate for U.S. President as a way to bring attention to it. His published platform stated the following: “The Declaration of Independence ‘holds these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;’ but at the same time some two or three millions of people are held as slaves for life, because the spirit in them is covered with a darker skin.”Instead of simply calling for the abolition of slavery, Joseph Smith’s platform would have Congress “pay every man a reasonable price for his slaves out of the surplus revenue arising from the sale of public lands, and from the deduction of pay from members of Congress.” : https://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/02/joseph-smith-campaign-for-president-of-the-united-states?lang=eng
 
Anyway to try and paint Joseph Smith as spreading racism is just revisionist history. I'll cover the ban on the priesthood by Brigham Young that stayed in effect until 1978 later. That too is very misunderstood.
 
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American Christianity doesnt seem like a religion but like a sort of family re-union cookout with magic underwear and handling poisonous snakes.

My experience is that other religions like Islam and Buddhism are more devout and have more mind-engulfing rituals like burning incense, total prostration, and great complex churches. People seem to get more out of them. They go off into unamerican realities. With Christianity you are dealing with definite western reality that is absolutely defined. American Christians cannot leave American reality. They have a much more limited mental-range of where their minds can wander.
 
laska said:
Troll post with no accuracy. Joseph was 14 when he received the first vision in 1820 and the scriptures that he translated by the power of God contain strong statements against racism and slavery, and Joseph Smith even ran a third party campaign for President of the United States on a strong anti-slavery platform. His life was a complete opposite of spreading racism. The temporary ban of the priesthood to those of black African descent came after his martyrdom by Brigham Young. I will first cover why it is so unfair and dishonest to claim Joseph spread racism, and then I will show even with the priesthood ban, that it likely was something else besides racism.

About a year earlier on December 25, 1832 while praying in regards to slavery around the world, he received the following revelation, which was later printed in newspapers in England in the 1850's and recorded in Doctrine and Covenants section 87:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.
4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.



This prophecy covers the Civil War, the two World Wars, and possibly the third world freeing themselves from European imperialism after the European powers were devastated in the aftermath of the World Wars and later the collapse of Communism after the fall of the Soviet Union.



Nearly two years earlier than this Christmas revelation above, the coming Civil War was hinted at on the revelation Joseph received on Jan. 2, 1831 and recorded in Doctrine and Covenants section 38:

29 Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land.
30 I tell you these things because of your prayers; wherefore, treasure up wisdom in your bosoms, lest the wickedness of men reveal these things unto you by their wickedness, in a manner which shall speak in your ears with a voice louder than that which shall shake the earth; but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.
31 And that ye might escape the power of the enemy, and be gathered unto me a righteous people, without spot and blameless -
32 Wherefore, for this cause I gave unto you the commandment that ye should go to the Ohio; and there I will give unto you my law; and there you shall be endowed with power from on high; . . .



It was in Kirkland, Ohio that the first temple was built and the Saints received their first temple endowments.



On February 9, 1831 Joseph then received another revelation from the Lord that further hinted at the coming Civil War in D&C section 42:

64 And even now, let him that goeth to the east teach them that shall be converted to flee to the west, and this in consequence of that which is coming on the earth, and of secret combinations.



The Latter Day Saints avoided the Civil War in their exodus to the Rocky Mountains.



An interesting tidbit on the Christmas 1832 revelation. The LDS apostle Orson Hyde had been mocked by eastern papers after he gave a speech in 1850 that war was about to divide the nation. After the Civil War broke out in 1862 he wrote a "I told you so" letter to the editor of the Missouri Republican of Springfield. The following excerpt of this letter was printed in the Millennial Star on May 3, 1862:

"You have scarcely yet read the preface of your national trouble. Many nations will be drawn into the American maelstrom that now whirls through our land; and after many days, when the demon of war shall have exhausted his strength and madness upon American soil, by the destruction of all that can court or provoke opposition, he will remove his headquarters to the banks of the Rhine."

Millennial Star, 24 (3 May 1862):274-275, emphasis added.
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That's a long post to say that he preached racism and married 40 wives. Didn't the mormon church itself just say that he married like 40 chicks. The religion is based in ignorance and racism, it was born in fire and violence, and just because it became pacified with time doesn't mean it's any less of a scam than scientology.
 
Ikari, the only thing ignorant is your posts. If the religion of pure Christianity is ignorant, and that is what the LDS religion is, then why are the LDS one of the best educated demographics in the U.S. , why is it the only religion found in a study of the popular religions in the U.S. where the more educated a member the greater the faith in the religion. Just the opposite trend occurred in every other religion in the study. The highest degree of faith in the LDS demographics were scientists at over 90% having strong belief in the religion. The LDS demographic made Utah and Idaho the top two states per capita in producing scientists for like the last century until very recently when Massachusetts overtook the top spot. If te religion is as ignorant as you say, it is weird that so many very bright people embrace it. Could it be that your caricature of it is ignorant. And The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has always been pacifist. The mob violence was against it, not the other way around, for no other reason than constant lies against it that riled up public hysteria. Beautiful little innocent Mormons were the witches of that era, and it wasn't they who were extremely ignorant. There was not a more peaceful people than the LDS at Nauvoo. The governor of Missouri put out an extermination on this peaceful and innocent people and the U.S. government ignored their pleas for help so they had to flee in the dead of winter to the rocky mountains to escape extermination. But you Ikari make it sound like the religion was at one time violent, which is dishonest.

Here is an interesting letter from a U.S. congressman to his wife after hearing Joseph Smith speak. Joseph had gone to Washington to try and get help against the mob violence against them.

Congressman Davis heard the Prophet preach on Feb. 5, 1840, soon after the Latter-day Saints settled Nauvoo. Joseph was in Washington to seek from the national government a redress of grievances for the wrongs suffered by the saints in Missouri. In a letter to his wife, the congressman wrote:

"I went last evening to hear 'Joe Smith,' the celebrated Mormon, expound his doctrine. I with several others, had a desire to understand his tenets as explained by himself. He is not an educated man; but he is a plain, sensible, strong-minded man. Everything he says is said in a manner to leave an impression that he is sincere. There is no levity, no fanaticism, no want of dignity in his deportment. He is apparently from ... of age, rather above the middle stature, and what you ladies would call a very good looking man. In his garb there are no peculiarities; his dress being that of a plain, unpretending citizen. He is by profession a farmer, but is evidently well read.

" . . . During the whole of his address, and it occupied more than two hours, there was no opinion or belief that he expressed, that was calculated, in the slightest degree, to impair the morals of society, or in any manner to degrade and brutalize the human species. . . . There was no violence, no fury, no denunciation. His religion appears to be the religion of meekness, lowliness and mild persuasion. . . .

"Throughout his whole address, he displayed strongly a spirit of charity and forbearance. The Mormon Bible, he said, was communicated to him direct from heaven. If there was such a thing on earth as the author of it, then he (Smith) was the author; but the idea that he wished to impress was that he penned it as dictated by God.

"I have taken some pains to address this man's belief as he himself explained it. I have done so because it might satisfy your curiosity and might be interesting to you and some of your friends. I have changed my opinion of the Mormons. They are an injured and much-abused people. Of matters of faith, you know I express no opinion." (History of the Church 4:78-79.)
 
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In the following revelation the Lord wanted the Saints to embrace the U.S. constitution: "4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn."



Later in this revelation the Lord tells the Saints his rules for war and basically wanted the members of His church to be patient in turning the other cheek in the violence against it:
23 Now, I speak unto you concerning your families—if men will smite you, or your families, once, and ye bear it patiently and revile not against them, neither seek revenge, ye shall be rewarded;

24 But if ye bear it not patiently, it shall be accounted unto you as being meted out as a just measure unto you.

25 And again, if your enemy shall smite you the second time, and you revile not against your enemy, and bear it patiently, your reward shall be an hundred-fold.

26 And again, if he shall smite you the third time, and ye bear it patiently, your reward shall be doubled unto you four-fold;

27 And these three testimonies shall stand against your enemy if he repent not, and shall not be blotted out.

28 And now, verily I say unto you, if that enemy shall escape my vengeance, that he be not brought into judgment before me, then ye shall see to it that ye warn him in my name, that he come no more upon you, neither upon your family, even your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.

29 And then, if he shall come upon you or your children, or your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation, I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands;

30 And then if thou wilt spare him, thou shalt be rewarded for thy righteousness; and also thy children and thy children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.

31 Nevertheless, thine enemy is in thine hands; and if thou rewardest him according to his works thou art justified; if he has sought thy life, and thy life is endangered by him, thine enemy is in thine hands and thou art justified.

32 Behold, this is the law I gave unto my servant Nephi, and thy fathers, Joseph, and Jacob, and Isaac, and Abraham, and all mine ancient prophets and apostles. (D&C 98)


Racist and violent? Hardly. Ignorant, only to the ignorant.
 
Whichever makes you want to be a better person.
 
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