Toleration

So I've decided to try the whole education thing out and have found my way into an entry level philosophy class. Anyway, an interesting series of questions came up and I figured I'd turn to this place for some conversation on the topic of toleration:

2. What is toleration?
6. What are some of the barriers that prevent us from being a tolerant society?
9. What are ways to encourage toleration?

What are your thoughts on toleration, as it applies to the U.S. and how we've developed as a nation over the past several hundred years.

Starbuck said:

1. What is toleration?
4. What are some of the barriers that prevent us from being a tolerant society?
7. What are ways to encourage toleration?

What are your thoughts on toleration, as it applies to the U.S. and how we've developed as a nation over the past several hundred years.

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A skewed exercise to begin with as it assumes we should be tolerant.
And then what should we be tolerant of?
Different groups of folks or of Government overreach?
Too vague.

Excon said:

A skewed exercise to begin with as it assumes we should be tolerant.
And then what should we be tolerant of?
Different groups of folks or of Government overreach?
Too vague.

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That is a good point, however I think the questions were meant more broadly.

Regardless, I'm quite sure the professor is trying to use a topic that is likely to incite disagreements in order to keep students focused on the lesson at hand. The reading associated with these questions followed Socratic Questioning. So I think it's more an exercise to get people to question deeply held beliefs.

Excon said:

Too vague.

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Or vague, as you've already pointed out.

Start with a vague concept and whittle it down through questioning and challenging.

Anyway, what do you view as the definition of toleration?

Starbuck said:

Or vague, as you've already pointed out.

Start with a vague concept and whittle it down through questioning and challenging.

Anyway, what do you view as the definition of toleration?

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Dictionary.com

verb (used with object), tolerated, tolerating.
1.
to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.
2.
to endure without repugnance; put up with:
I can tolerate laziness, but not incompetence.

Thom Paine

Thom Paine said:

1. to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.

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Obviously that makes sense, but within the realm of toleration there must be some barriers.

• Do I tolerate the noise from the freeway down the hill?
• 
  
  
  
• Does a boss who allows employees to show up late tolerate tardiness?

Or is toleration that black & white? I get the definition, picking up an old version of Webster's was among my first actions when given the questions.

Thom Paine said:

I can tolerate laziness, but not incompetence.

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From a post lifted straight from another website, this example is great. Completely accurate.

The notion of tolerance involve allowing that which causes no harm. It should not extend to allowing that which does.

Thom Paine said:

2.
to endure without repugnance; put up with

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What of the other two questions?

Say toleration is that simple, completely devoid of nuance. What are some of the barriers that prevent people from being tolerant?

Naturally, this ignores the question 'should we be tolerant.' I'm assuming that the professor takes that for granted.

Gardener said:

The notion of tolerance involve allowing that which causes no harm.

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I can see that, but where to we draw the line for 'harm.' I manage a department, someone showing up late doesn't 'harm' me per se, but one could argue that it does. Does harm stop at the physical manifestation of harm?

Gardener said:

It should not extend to allowing that which does.

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What should it be called then, when we allow someone to cause harm?

Starbuck said:

So I've decided to try the whole education thing out and have found my way into an entry level philosophy class. Anyway, an interesting series of questions came up and I figured I'd turn to this place for some conversation on the topic of toleration:

2. What is toleration?
6. What are some of the barriers that prevent us from being a tolerant society?
9. What are ways to encourage toleration?

What are your thoughts on toleration, as it applies to the U.S. and how we've developed as a nation over the past several hundred years.

Click to expand...

Tolerance: As long as it isn't in my yard or in my face, or hurting any innocents, what you do is your business, not mine. I don't have to approve, though, and I am free to SAY I don't approve; but you don't have to listen.

Starbuck said:

What should it be called then, when we allow someone to cause harm?

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indifference.

Goshin said:

Tolerance: As long as it isn't in my yard or in my face, or hurting any innocents, what you do is your business, not mine. I don't have to approve, though, and I am free to SAY I don't approve; but you don't have to listen.

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I'm pretty sure that's how I feel about toleration.

Starbuck said:

I'm pretty sure that's how I feel about toleration.

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These days, lots of people confuse tolerance with acceptance.... which is saying 'you're fine and I accept all that you do as good', and is an entirely different thing from tolerance.

Starbuck said:

What of the other two questions?

Say toleration is that simple, completely devoid of nuance. What are some of the barriers that prevent people from being tolerant?

Naturally, this ignores the question 'should we be tolerant.' I'm assuming that the professor takes that for granted.

Click to expand...

I like simplicity..


[bar-ee-er]

barrier
noun
1.
anything built or serving to bar passage, as a railing, fence, or the like:
People may pass through the barrier only when their train is announced.
2.
any natural bar or obstacle:
a mountain barrier.
3.
anything that restrains or obstructs progress, access, etc.:
a trade barrier.
4.
a limit or boundary of any kind:
the barriers of caste.
5.
Physical Geography. an antarctic ice shelf or ice front.

Let us use example no. 4 highlighted above.

In today's world, tolerance is a very clouded word with elastic and oft murky definitions according different individuals and respective cultures.

While this is rather garish, one might find cannibalism unthinkable and intolerable while another might believe it intolerable to not eat the heart of his slain enemy.

There are no barriers to tolerance other than one's own mind; that mind is molded by culture of the times and is subject to natural change over time as civilization matures.
Those maturing cultural modifications will be deemed a remedy by some and a disease by some. Therein lies the question and the answer. Despite a simple dictionary explanation, persons and cultures arrive at very differing interpretations and understanding of the word.

As seen today, in politics of the world, tolerance in itself is quite intolerant; particularly when force fed causes sometimes emotional and/or physical disruption ( think Middle East problems ).

A better term to consider is "acceptance" along with practicing tolerance by accepting another's non-acceptance. ( not so simple )

The circle is complete... the prof's question has no definitive answer.

One man's tolerance is another's perfidy. Always has been and will always be so.

Thom Paine

Starbuck said:

So I've decided to try the whole education thing out and have found my way into an entry level philosophy class. Anyway, an interesting series of questions came up and I figured I'd turn to this place for some conversation on the topic of toleration:

2. What is toleration?
6. What are some of the barriers that prevent us from being a tolerant society?
9. What are ways to encourage toleration?

What are your thoughts on toleration, as it applies to the U.S. and how we've developed as a nation over the past several hundred years.

Click to expand...

I think it means to allow other people to have their own opinions and lifestyle without interfering in it either through judgement or action. In large part this means not allowing yourself to feel threatened by it.

I think the are a variety of barriers but I would guess the most influential are fear of something different and peoples competitive natures.

The best way to encourage tolerance is to help people realize that someone is not a threat simply because they are different and to have enough faith in their own choices that they don't need people to agree with them to live those choices comfortably and confidently.

Starbuck said:

Obviously that makes sense, but within the realm of toleration there must be some barriers.

• Do I tolerate the noise from the freeway down the hill? ]
  
• Does a boss who allows employees to show up late tolerate tardiness?

Or is toleration that black & white? I get the definition, picking up an old version of Webster's was among my first actions when given the questions.
From a post lifted straight from another website, this example is great. Completely accurate.

Click to expand...

I'm unsure how these examples fit.
One must accept and tolerate that outside one's influence. One must be intolerant of that which may be detrimental if one has influence within or over the situation.

Thom Paine

Tolerance is leaving alone or bearing things that don't harm or effect you or other third parties.

Accordinly, it is not, as is often claimed,ideologically inconsistent to be intolerant of intolerance.

Starbuck said:

That is a good point, however I think the questions were meant more broadly.

Regardless, I'm quite sure the professor is trying to use a topic that is likely to incite disagreements in order to keep students focused on the lesson at hand. The reading associated with these questions followed Socratic Questioning. So I think it's more an exercise to get people to question deeply held beliefs.

Click to expand...

I don't think it's skewed. I think it's a given that he is referring to our behavior not our feelings. We may in fact be incapable of eliminating our inclination to be intolerant but we are certainly capable of eliminating the behaviors it encourages.

Gardener said:

The notion of tolerance involve allowing that which causes no harm. It should not extend to allowing that which does.

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but what is and is not harm is subjective

Starbuck said:

So I've decided to try the whole education thing out and have found my way into an entry level philosophy class. Anyway, an interesting series of questions came up and I figured I'd turn to this place for some conversation on the topic of toleration:

2. What is toleration?
6. What are some of the barriers that prevent us from being a tolerant society?
9. What are ways to encourage toleration?

What are your thoughts on toleration, as it applies to the U.S. and how we've developed as a nation over the past several hundred years.

Click to expand...

Tolerance is the concept that people won't be killed injured or jailed for something. Tolerance is a growing thing. At one time women wearing pants wasn't tolerated. Now it's hardly noticed. Molesting children isn't tolerated, nor is murder.

Gardener said:

indifference.

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not the same thing. indifference is a lack of concern or interest. with intolerance you can be concerned but not make an effort to inhibit another persons actions or interfere in their lives because of it

Tolerance ends at institutional discrimination.

Thom Paine said:

I like simplicity..

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Agreed.

Thom Paine said:

In today's world, tolerance is a very clouded word with elastic and oft murky definitions according different individuals and respective cultures.

Click to expand...

That makes a lot of sense, and you're definitely right about there being no definitive answer.

I completely agree that the definition, or at least application, of the word toleration in today's world is very cloudy. Personally, toleration as requiring two conditions to exist:


I don't think a lot of starving people in Haiti were 'tolerating' abject poverty. They were enduring and/ or surviving abject poverty, whereas I would tolerate the use of marijuana through participating in a vote that approves of it's legalization.

Through thinking about the topic for the past week, I've found that the definition of toleration is pretty black & white, but feel that the barriers are a bit cloudy, which is where your point that "there are no barriers to tolerance other than one's own mind" comes in. For the life of me, I've only been able to come up three barriers:


I really like, or dislike to tell you the truth, your thought about tolerating someone else's intolerance. If we were living in a country that didn't have the agency to stop or alter the intolerance of those in power in some Middle East nations, it would be easy to pawn this off on in ability. However, maybe we do have the power to change the way things are happening over there, does that make us complicit in their activities.

Or are we, as you've said, accepting their lack of toleration for our own self-serving reasons?

Regardless, thanks for the response.

Starbuck said:

So I've decided to try the whole education thing out and have found my way into an entry level philosophy class. Anyway, an interesting series of questions came up and I figured I'd turn to this place for some conversation on the topic of toleration:

2. What is toleration?
6. What are some of the barriers that prevent us from being a tolerant society?
9. What are ways to encourage toleration?

What are your thoughts on toleration, as it applies to the U.S. and how we've developed as a nation over the past several hundred years.

Click to expand...

Idiot question as it seems to accept that either the giver or the receiver would want tolerance.

In a racial sense, in mental illness, poverty, looks or handicap I do NOT want tolerance in any form. No one wants to be merely tolerated. We all, people on this good earth, dogs too, want acceptance and inclusion.

"Tolerance" in and of itself has at least an elitist quality, that someone has the means to bestow this great "gift" upon one like a billionaire inviting one homeless man to a party for 50. That homeless man will go, because he's hungry and he will swallow his pride, allow himself to be used as a "feel good prop" while what he really needed was a meal and a one on one chat for an hour, what we all really want, eh?

Keep your tolerance, please don't encourage any more. It's intolerable.

If its a real philosophy class, fill that in with a search a quote or two, maybe check out Zarathrustra, he's capricious enough for a Philo 101 prof.

If he has a sense of humor though, you're screwed.

opendebate said:

I think it means to allow other people to have their own opinions and lifestyle without interfering in it either through judgement or action. In large part this means not allowing yourself to feel threatened by it.

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That seems to be the route of toleration, I think there's a lot to be said about the notion of feeling threatened. Goes to the idea of there being an 'other.'

opendebate said:

I think the are a variety of barriers but I would guess the most influential are fear of something different and peoples competitive natures.

The best way to encourage tolerance is to help people realize that someone is not a threat simply because they are different and to have enough faith in their own choices that they don't need people to agree with them to live those choices comfortably and confidently.

Click to expand...

Competition is something that I didn't really consider before. Perhaps competition could be a manifestation of a variety of factors, but it sounds like you're referring to something more instinctual. Do you think that a certain level of intolerance is built into the set of human instincts as part of a basic survival mechanism?