Your Pet's Life Depends On You, Howeveer.....

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

It's wrong to abandon pets, especially if they're sick and in pain. I can always afford a steak and a bullet.

I'm not morally responsible for my friends. If they want a steak and a bullet, they can ask me themselves-- then it's their call.

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

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They are animals and can be put down for any reason whatsoever as long as it is done humanely, and at the decision of the pet's owner.

Animals =/= people.



... and yes, I say that as someone who has pets and is very fond of them.

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

Click to expand...

No, not at all. We slaughter animals every day for food.

Whether you like it or not, pets are property and we can dispose of property any time we want to, so long as it is done legally. If your dog has puppies, you can kill all of those puppies, so long as it is done humanely, whether anyone else wants them or not.

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

Click to expand...

Several factors have to be considered here primary for me is responsible pet ownership. If I can not afford to properly care for the pet I personally would choose not to own a pet. Here in Canada, there are plenty of vets who would allow you under those circumstances to pay in a series of payments. That would be an option worth considering.

We also have the Farley Foundation. If you are in need and your pet is in need, you can get assistance.

The pet's age would impact my decision as would how intrusive the procedure was going to be as well as survival rates and suffering involved.

I do not consider an animal "just something I own". To me they become a contributing part of the family and as such are considered in my home to be of very high value.

I would lessen the food budget, I would give up whatever I had to in order to assist said pet IF it could be helped and would live a happy and healthy life.

I do not agree with people who keep that poor animal barely alive because they can not bear to cope with it's loss. Once I decide a pet is in pain which can not be controlled or has reached the end of a long and happy life and is struggling, that animal goes down.

I agree pets are a member of the family.

All I'd add to this conversation is that typically we value the lives of animals in some proportion to how we perceive they experience their lives. Higher animals like chimps, whales, dolphins and elephants appear to have a deeper experience of life, then rats, and birds. But there is also an emotional component, our attachment and our reverence. Bunnies, kittens and anything tiny and cute n the one hand and lions, eagles leopards ect on the other. We project our own empathy on to animals, and rightly so, that is what separates us from them.

This is why we don't think about crushing a hundred ants but most of us would have a hard time stepping on a mouse.

The reality is while animals can suffer, most lack the physiological component of fearing their own death and what they will miss. When wolf is caught in a trap is doesn't think about it's children it will never see again, all the things it never got to do, or how short it's life is.

Is it ok to kill animals? I'd say yes, but with this caveat. When a person kills an animal and experiences pleasure, I worry not for the animal, per se (of course I don't want it to suffer), but for the person who takes pleasure in watching another living thing die. Today, mice, chickens, dogs cats ect....Tomorrow perhaps other people? Maybe, maybe not, but killing an animal sheerly for pleasure and experiencing joy watching an animal die is a red flag for a person with some emotional issues.

csbrown28 said:

This is why we don't think about crushing a hundred ants but most of us would have a hard time stepping on a mouse.

The reality is while animals can suffer, most lack the physiological component of fearing their own death and what they will miss. When wolf is caught in a trap is doesn't think about it's children it will never see again, all the things it never got to do, or how short it's life is.

Is it ok to kill animals? I'd say yes, but with this caveat. when a person kills an animal an experiences pleasure, I worry not for the animal, per se (of course I don't want it to suffer), but for the person who takes pleasure in watching another living thing die. Today, mice, chickens, dogs cats ect....Tomorrow perhaps other people? Maybe, maybe not, but killing an animal sheerly for pleasure and experiencing joy watching an animal die is a red flag for a person with some emotional issues.

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I actually would think about crushing even one ant. I am of the mind that any life deserves to be respected and given the opportunity to thrive from lowest to highest. When insects enter my house with the exception of mosquitoes or flies, I try to put them back into the outdoors without damaging them.

As for animals and their ability to process and feel, we are beginning to make new inroads there recently. It would appear that they understand far more than we have given them credit for.

As for your comment on injuring/killing animals and the people who experience enjoyment while watching them suffer, I believe you are right on. It is an indicator of socio/psychopathology. As for domesticate animals/pets being abused it also usually indicates other issues of abuse which are occurring in the home.

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Click to expand...

Sadly would have to have her put to sleep only if I couldnt find an alternative and the vet says that is the only option.

rhinefire said:

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?

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Yes

rhinefire said:

Would the pet's age impact your decision making?

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No, if I dont have the money, I dont have the money

rhinefire said:

Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

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Yes, I guess to could and no to should.

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

Click to expand...

Abandon a pet, yes it is wrong.
Put one down if cicumstances warrant, no.

~SAL said:

I actually would think about crushing even one ant. I am of the mind that any life deserves to be respected and given the opportunity to thrive from lowest to highest. When insects enter my house with the exception of mosquitoes or flies, I try to put them back into the outdoors without damaging them.

As for animals and their ability to process and feel, we are beginning to make new inroads there recently. It would appear that they understand far more than we have given them credit for.

As for your comment on injuring/killing animals and the people who experience enjoyment while watching them suffer, I believe you are right on. It is an indicator of socio/psychopathology. As for domesticate animals/pets being abused it also usually indicates other issues of abuse which are occurring in the home.

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Generally I agree with you, except when it comes to mosquitoes, I kill them and take a sort of guilty pleasure in do it xD

But seriously, I realize that not killing insects isn't because I wanted to save the life of the insect. It's for me. It makes me feel good knowing that I could have taken a life, no matter how insignificant, but chose not too. It's just the reverse of killing an animal.

Far as what animal experience, you may be right. I mean, and I'm being serious when I say this, what if we found out that trees actually experienced a great deal of sufferering when we cut them down, would that change how we feel about them? I'm not saying this will ever be the case, but I think it's important to understand why we make choices about killing from a less emotional and more pragmatic sense.

csbrown28 said:

Generally I agree with you, except when it comes to mosquitoes, I kill them and take a sort of guilty pleasure in do it xD

But seriously, I realize that not killing insects isn't because I wanted to save the life of the insect. It's for me. It makes me feel good knowing that I could have taken a life, no matter how insignificant, but chose not too. It's just the reverse of killing an animal.

Far as what animal experience, you may be right. I mean, and I'm being serious when I say this, what if we found out that trees actually experienced a great deal of sufferering when we cut them down, would that change how we feel about them? I'm not saying this will ever be the case, but I think it's important to understand why we make choices about killing from a less emotional and more pragmatic sense.

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Absolutely

I was raised to have compassion and empathy, but the older I get the more it grows. Even when out walking I don't go looking for bugs on the pavement but if one is there and I can avoid it, I most certainly will.

I believe that we are a part of and connected with everything, from highest to lowest.

As for trees and vegetables etc. they are saying plants will react in a measurable way to violence. We need food to sustain ourselves of course...but I believe we need to use that food and our water respectfully. I don't always, I throw away (waste) far too much, but I do try and am mindful. I just need to be more successful at it. :lol:

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

Click to expand...

I've had at least one dog in my home since I was 5 years old and spent a small fortune over the years on the care, comfort, enjoyment and treatment of them. They have always given back to me so much more than I could ever give to them.

Owning a pet is serious business. Anyone contemplating bringing a pet into their home should do it with the full knowledge of the expenses involved in owning a pet. Would be a good idea to visit your local vet or humane society and ask them what the typical expenses are and what the costs might be over a pet's lifetime. Once you know, make the decision. It would also be a good idea to either purchase pet insurance or put away monthly an equivalent amount in a "pet emergency" account so that when the time comes, and it absolutely 100% will, the decision you make about expensive and intrusive care for your pet is not one based solely on your ability to pay the bills.

All that said, I've had to say goodbye and put to sleep 6 dogs in my lifetime and my 7th is perhaps months away. It is the hardest thing to do but it's also the most humane and generous thing you can do for a faithful and loving pet who's filled your life with joy, laughter, and companionship, often when you need it most.

As for what is best for your pet, only you know. As a lifelong dog owner, I know full well that vets by their very nature are predisposed to always be in favour of trying out that experiment or risky treatment on your dog - it's great for business and it's also great as a training tool for themselves and their staff. I'll never forget having a 15 yr old Border Collie - Border Collies don't usually live that long - who ended up with cancer in his snout, between the eyes near his brain. The vet wanted me to send the dog to a specialist clinic that would operate on my dog and then for the next 7 weeks following that I'd drive my friend back to the clinic each Friday night for 48 hours of chemotherapy treatments and pick him up again Sunday. Forget that this schedule of treatments was going to cost upwards of $10,000, the sheer inhumanity of abusing my 15 yr old friend almost made me sick. I refused immediately and took him home. He wasn't outwardly uncomfortable, although occasionally he would sneeze up some blood. However, one day I came home and found the carpeting and walls covered in blood where he had gone around in a fit of sneezing. He looked up at me and it broke my heart but I knew and he knew it was time. We went straight to the vet and a few minutes later he died in my arms. It was incredibly hard, but that's what responsible, loving, pet owners do.

No pet should ever be abandoned. They rely on you to do what's right.

rhinefire said:

Situation:You can apply this hypothetical situation to yourselves or to a friend: Your pet is ill and the vet says you must pay out more than you can afford right now and have no means to get the money to save it's life. What is you move?

Is it "wrong" to abandon the pet?
Would the pet's age impact your decision making?
Could or should the law state an animal cannot be put down strictly for financial reasons?

Click to expand...

Since a pet isn’t equal to human, I'll be very sad, but if it's my only option ill give my pet to the vet so he will do what he needs to do.
I believe animals has no inherent rights that derive from the fact they are animals. I don’t say animals have no rights at all, they do have, the rights humans gave to them. For example, you can't kill your neighbor dog's because the protection that the neighbor granted to his dog.