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What If The Big Bang Is Indeed A Mistake?

rhinefire said:
That cannot apply as you are taking a known, the present and the beginning is unknown. What definition would you apply to that "one point"? Besides, at the "instant" of the
big bang there was more energy than all there is currently in the universe combined. You cannot go back in to womb.
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I was under the impression that the universe is expanding. The cause of the Big Bang is unknown, but the Big Bang is a fact otherwise how do you explain the cosmic background radiation, the faint echo of the Big Bang? I don't see where you get the extra energy from. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Any cosmologists out there?
 
rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
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The evidence of the history of the universe is very clear even to a simple person such as me back to at least 12.5 billion years ago.

Look up the Hubble deep field photos. These are images made from data gained from the telescope which is in space and so can get very good images because it's not got the annoying atmosphere of Earth in the way of a good view.

They show galaxies upon galaxies. As you look further away the time the light has taken to get here gets longer. The galaxies get smaller the further back in time. They get more crowded together. The very oldest objects are proto-galaxies which are lit by the black hole at the center but don't have stars in them.

Beyond all that it will never matter to our normal day to day choices. Live your life. Sub-atomic physics is of academic interest. Occasionally it throws out vastly useful stuff like nuclear power plants, thermonuclear bombs and medical scanners. The rest of us don't need to put any emotional investment into it though.
 
joG said:
God fumbled it. :boohoo:
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LOL...Yea, it was supposed to be a much smaller bang, but he added too much "bang" stuff and he blew everything waaaaay to far apart......Dammit god!
 
I've said before that the Bog Bang could have been caused by alien teens goofing off in their garage.

I think it was the same universe that spock had the goatee.


rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
Click to expand...
 
csbrown28 said:
LOL...Yea, it was supposed to be a much smaller bang, but he added too much "bang" stuff and he blew everything waaaaay to far apart......Dammit god!
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Big Blooper Theory?
 
csbrown28 said:
LOL...Yea, it was supposed to be a much smaller bang, but he added too much "bang" stuff and he blew everything waaaaay to far apart......Dammit god!
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Like Wile E. Coyote?

TNTWile-E-Coyote.jpg
 
rhinefire said:
So the best you can answer a question with is another question. That's brilliant!
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I'm not trying to be brilliant. I am asking why. If questioning is some sort of signal to you that someone lacks in intelligence, then that tells me quite a bit about you. It is really no surprise that you don't enjoy having a back and forth exchange with another human.
 
rhinefire said:
As man tries to make sense of something that so far does not make sense as we understand is it possible the whole thing was done in error? What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang? If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not? Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window. There could be thousands of universes and possibly they are all exactly the same meaning I am typing this in a thousand different locations. If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will? Maybe because something went wrong we will simply never know. It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
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My answer would be: so what?
Not knowing something is what drives humanity to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

Cosmically speaking homo sapiens have spent so little time in existence, we haven't even scratched the surface of knowledge despite all the stuff we have already done.
Anything postulated prior to the big bang is pure speculation since we have not the means to measure it.
 
RogueWarrior said:
My answer would be: so what?
Not knowing something is what drives humanity to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

Cosmically speaking homo sapiens have spent so little time in existence, we haven't even scratched the surface of knowledge despite all the stuff we have already done.
Anything postulated prior to the big bang is pure speculation since we have not the means to measure it.
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Proof watching television is not conducive to enlightenment.
 
lizzie said:
I'm not trying to be brilliant. I am asking why. If questioning is some sort of signal to you that someone lacks in intelligence, then that tells me quite a bit about you. It is really no surprise that you don't enjoy having a back and forth exchange with another human.
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You said, "I'm not trying to be brilliant"................ I agree.
 
zyzygy said:
I was under the impression that the universe is expanding. The cause of the Big Bang is unknown, but the Big Bang is a fact otherwise how do you explain the cosmic background radiation, the faint echo of the Big Bang? I don't see where you get the extra energy from. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Any cosmologists out there?
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What extra energy are you referring to unless you are referring to the speed of light being exceeded at the big bang? No one can say why only that it is a fact. Look it up.
Of course the universe is expanding and that is why the term "dark energy was coined because they do not know why it is expanding exponentially in some areas depending on the proximity of bodies or clusters.
The "background radiation" you refer to will last forever.
Gravity waves will possibly lead to the science community to the closest thing to an answer.
 
rhinefire said:
What extra energy are you referring to unless you are referring to the speed of light being exceeded at the big bang? No one can say why only that it is a fact. Look it up.
Of course the universe is expanding and that is why the term "dark energy was coined because they do not know why it is expanding exponentially in some areas depending on the proximity of bodies or clusters.
The "background radiation" you refer to will last forever.
Gravity waves will possibly lead to the science community to the closest thing to an answer.
Click to expand...

 
zyzygy said:
I am not a physicist so I can only state this in simple terms. No doubt a scientist will correct me if I am wrong. If one imagines the universe as a movie being run backwards, then all the matter, energy and space will eventually come together at one point. How do the no Big Bang people explain that away?
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Actually there is another theory out there as they showed that the universe is actually gaining speed not losing it. which technically isn't possible given about what we know about explosions.

so it isn't that all matter will meet at one point and collide vs time and space ripping itself apart as galaxies continue to move further and further away from each other.

this theory makes more sense.

The Expanding Universe: From Slowdown to Speed Up - Scientific American
 
Roger Penrose, a famous British mathematician and a close friend of Stephen Hawking, wondered about this question and tried to calculate the probability of the initial entropy conditions of the Big Bang.

According to Penrose, the odds against such an occurrence were on the order of 10 to the power of 10^123 to 1.

he went on to say.

Concerning this mind-boggling number Roger Penrose comments:

"This now tells how precise the Creator's aim must have been, namely to an accuracy of one part in 10 to the 10123rd power. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full in the ordinary denary notation: it would be 1 followed by 10123 successive 0's." Even if we were to write a 0 on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe- and we could throw in all the other particles for good measure- we would fall far short of writing down the figure needed.1

It takes far more “faith” to believe that this happened by chance than to believe that it was instigated by an incredibly powerful mind. The latter inference does not require blind faith!

It’s important to recognize that we're not talking about a single unlikely event here. We’re talking about hitting the jackpot over and over again, nailing extremely unlikely, mutually complementary parameters of constants and quantities, far past the point where chance could account for it.


hawkings earlier work agreed with penrose on these calculations.
 
rhinefire said:
What if there was a tiny flaw in this thing we call the big bang?
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Even after a few pages, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The Big Bang is not a diamond, it was an event. How can it have a "flaw?"


If it does not fall within our laws of physics then why not?
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We currently don't fully understand the Big Bang, which is not surprising given how little information we have about it, and that there are still gaps in various theories.

As such, it is impossible to address a question like this. You'd need to be specific about the ways in which you imagine the Big Bang is incompatible with contemporary physics.


Examples, matter without mass and travel greater than the speed of light. Now the concept of a single universe is all but out the window.
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We have no evidence of any particles traveling faster than the speed of light. In fact, those particles would have to move backwards in time.

You should also know that physics has been considering multiverses for many years now. Those theories are fully compatible with contemporary physics.


If man cannot or does not possess the tools to come up with the answer then who will?
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Why does that matter? Of course, we are entitled to confidence and/or hope that our understanding of the laws of physics will one day be complete, but the nature of the universe itself does not actually change based on what we know and don't know.


It is said prior to the bang all was perfection and after all is a chaotic, random mess. If we are here as intelligence we should be able to find every answer to every question but so far we are falling short.
Click to expand...
There is no "prior to the Big Bang," at least as far as our universe is concerned.

I'd also disagree with the characterization of our universe as a "mess," as well as the claim that we are "falling short." We've made enormous progress in physics over the past 200 years, and are bumping into the limits of what can be observed.
 
Visbek said:
Even after a few pages, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The Big Bang is not a diamond, it was an event. How can it have a "flaw?"
Click to expand...

I have no idea what that means either.
 
Visbek said:
We have no evidence of any particles traveling faster than the speed of light. In fact, those particles would have to move backwards in time.

.
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Some people will believe anything. There is a European company that makes beauty products using tachyons, but they are far too shy to claim a Nobel prize. The Promise Revealed » Tachyon Beauty Cream
 
Visbek;1063642969[QUOTE said:
]Even after a few pages, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The Big Bang is not a diamond, it was an event. How can it have a "flaw?"
Click to expand...

Sure it can be flawed as long as we are ignorant of why it came to be.


We currently don't fully understand the Big Bang, which is not surprising given how little information we have about it, and that there are still gaps in various theories.

As such, it is impossible to address a question like this. You'd need to be specific about the ways in which you imagine the Big Bang is incompatible with contemporary physics.



We have no evidence of any particles traveling faster than the speed of light. In fact, those particles would have to move backwards in time.
Click to expand...

Someone here needs to read about what is believed to have occurred at the moment when the speed of light was exceeded. You all cannot get off today's laws of physics!!!!! THOSE LAWS DID NOT EXIST!!!!!!!

You should also know that physics has been considering multiverses for many years now. Those theories are fully compatible with contemporary physics.
Click to expand...

I do know but now the theory may be becoming fact due to gravity waves and what they may hold for us information wise.


Why does that matter? Of course, we are entitled to confidence and/or hope that our understanding of the laws of physics will one day be complete, but the nature of the universe itself does not actually change based on what we know and don't know.



There is no "prior to the Big Bang," at least as far as our universe is concerned.

You cannot state that as a truth because it is an unknown the THAT is what science is seeking to lean.
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I'd also disagree with the characterization of our universe as a "mess," as well as the claim that we are "falling short." We've made enormous progress in physics over the past 200 years, and are bumping into the limits of what can be observed.[/QUOTE]

There is nothing to disagree with it is a philosophical topic!! Michio Kaku states it is a mess and I'll take his opinion over any one here.
 
ludin said:
Roger Penrose, a famous British mathematician and a close friend of Stephen Hawking, wondered about this question and tried to calculate the probability of the initial entropy conditions of the Big Bang.

According to Penrose, the odds against such an occurrence were on the order of 10 to the power of 10^123 to 1.

he went on to say.

Concerning this mind-boggling number Roger Penrose comments:

"This now tells how precise the Creator's aim must have been, namely to an accuracy of one part in 10 to the 10123rd power. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full in the ordinary denary notation: it would be 1 followed by 10123 successive 0's." Even if we were to write a 0 on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe- and we could throw in all the other particles for good measure- we would fall far short of writing down the figure needed.1

It takes far more “faith” to believe that this happened by chance than to believe that it was instigated by an incredibly powerful mind. The latter inference does not require blind faith!

It’s important to recognize that we're not talking about a single unlikely event here. We’re talking about hitting the jackpot over and over again, nailing extremely unlikely, mutually complementary parameters of constants and quantities, far past the point where chance could account for it.


hawkings earlier work agreed with penrose on these calculations.
Click to expand...

Or there was some sort of mechanism which caused/did it.

What would the chance of me getting to the right place to do my work be if you did not understand maps and directions? If I just went randomly?
 
The universe came into being by means of the way the universe came into being. There was no flaw, no matter how it happened.
 
""Someone here needs to read about what is believed to have occurred at the moment when the speed of light was exceeded."
Link please, so we can read it.
 
I tend to believe that life will go on no matter how our universe came into being.
 
Sure it can be flawed as long as we are ignorant of why it came to be.
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Sorry, that still makes no sense.

Our knowledge of the BB does not change anything about the actual BB itself. And again, it makes no sense to suggest the BB was flawed. It was a natural phenomenon and an event, and such things do not have "flaws." Waterfalls do not have flaws, the passage of time does not have flaws. It's a completely inappropriate characterization of an event.


Someone here needs to read about what is believed to have occurred at the moment when the speed of light was exceeded. You all cannot get off today's laws of physics!!!!! THOSE LAWS DID NOT EXIST!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
I will cheerily admit that I'm not a trained physicist. However, I do know that an object that exceeds the speed of light would have to actually go backwards in time, which we currently hold to be impossible (or at least, extremely unlikely).

It is also commonly assumed that the laws of physics are universal, and do describe the singularity that became the Big Bang, as well as describe multiverses.


I do know but now the theory may be becoming fact due to gravity waves and what they may hold for us information wise.
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I think you're a bit misinformed.

A few months ago, scientists confirmed (as expected) that gravitational waves of the BB were observable in CMB. That experiment doesn't have any direct bearing on the existence of multiverses AFAIK. (cf Gravity Waves from Big Bang Detected - Scientific American)

There are separate experiments which are looking for evidence of contact of our universe with another "bubble" universe in the CMB, but so far that has not yielded any positive results.


There is no "prior to the Big Bang," at least as far as our universe is concerned.
Click to expand...
You cannot state that as a truth because it is an unknown the THAT is what science is seeking to lean.
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Allow me to rephrase. We currently believe that our "local universe" started in a singularity. In that initial singularity, there was no time and no space. The BB is what created the spacetime occupied by our local universe.

Initial singularity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "It is impossible to see the singularity or the actual Big Bang itself, as time and space did not exist inside the singularity and, therefore, there would be no way to transmit any radiation from before the Big Bang to the present day. However, evidence for the existence of an initial singularity, and the Big Bang theory itself, comes in the form of the cosmic microwave background and the continued expansion of the Universe."


I'd also disagree with the characterization of our universe as a "mess," as well as the claim that we are "falling short." We've made enormous progress in physics over the past 200 years, and are bumping into the limits of what can be observed.
Click to expand...
There is nothing to disagree with it is a philosophical topic!! Michio Kaku states it is a mess and I'll take his opinion over any one here.
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I assured you, categorizing something as a philosophical topic does not put it beyond debate. And I think that if you're going to use his opinion to suggest that the Big Bang is "flawed," then you might be misinterpreting his intentions.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Or there was some sort of mechanism which caused/did it.

What would the chance of me getting to the right place to do my work be if you did not understand maps and directions? If I just went randomly?
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it doesn't matter if the mechanism caused it or not. it only gets 1 chance to succeed or fail. you don't get multiple attempts.

that is why premrose and hawking in their early work basically said based on our knowledge of physics in general the big bang is not mathmatically or scientifically possible.
science deems anything over 10^45 impossible.

I do believe in hawkings early work he caculated that the odds of the big bang expanding fast enough so that it wouldn't collapse on itself to be 10^145.

the odds of your randomly getting to where you want to go depends on a lot of varitables, However the fact is you only get one chance to get to where you want to go.
you don't get to start over because you get lost.
 
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