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We're Not Alone[W:102,300]

Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
You can believe your baseless imaginary tales if you want. I'll stick with reality.
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Says the man who believes that a magical sky fairy sent another fairy to impregnate a virgin.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Koros said:
Says the man who believes that a magical sky fairy sent another fairy to impregnate a virgin.
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No it's the alien-believers who are the only ones who believe in anything remotely resembling fairies.

Ad hominem BTW.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

csbrown28 said:
I get what you're saying.....

I'll just add.... I'll step on an ant in my house, but I wouldn't make a special trip across town just to do it.

/panic off....

Unless we just happened to be in the path of aliens on the way to somewhere the considered important, it seems to me to be unlikely that they would take the time to make a special trip just to kill us.

Unless of course they found some value that, as a human I can't understand, in killing us. /panic back on!
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Just to increase your panic: Vogon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
No it's the alien-believers who are the only ones who believe in anything remotely resembling fairies.

Ad hominem BTW.
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Ad hominem or not, the thread is not talking about the claim that "aliens DO exist," but in the mathematical likelihood that they exist.

That said, I fail to see a difference between those who claim aliens exist and are visiting us and your belief in your god. Both are based on circumstantial evidence, at best, and require huge leaps in logic.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Koros said:
Ad hominem or not, the thread is not talking about the claim that "aliens DO exist," but in the mathematical likelihood that they exist.

That said, I fail to see a difference between those who claim aliens exist and are visiting us and your belief in your god. Both are based on circumstantial evidence, at best, and require huge leaps in logic.
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The difference is that God is a logical necessity. Whereas there is no reason to believe in aliens.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
The difference is that God is a logical necessity. Whereas there is no reason to believe in aliens.
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That's your belief, for which you can provide no evidence or proof.

So, I'm not going to go down this road again. Every single person on DP who has tried to argue for either the existence of god or the logical necessity of god has been soundly thrashed.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
The difference is that God is a logical necessity. Whereas there is no reason to believe in aliens.
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only if you rely on arguments with premises that are faulty or unable to be substantiated themselves is that the case. The "logical necessity" claims generally are elaborate "god of the gaps" or argument from ignorance constructions
 
Re: We're Not Alone

marduc said:
FYI this also applies to claims of divinity, and if you looked at an atheists position you will find that most do not hold "no god" as an absolute either, but also hold a position very much akin to what I quoted above on that proposition as well.

So while there may be a few exceptions, the inconsistency you are trying to point out does not exist for the most part, it is a rather consistent position actually.

edit to include another example that refutes your erroneous generalization:
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Not sure if this was directed at me, or given as proof of concept to "it's just me." But I'll vouch for it. I'm an atheist. Most atheist simply lack belief because there is no convincing reason to do otherwise and professing that something doesn't exist is also an unprovable statement. Same is true for me.

I just love it when people try to tell me atheism is a "belief." Belief in what, precisely?
 
Re: We're Not Alone

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Not sure if this was directed at me, or given as proof of concept to "it's just me." But I'll vouch for it. I'm an atheist. Most atheist simply lack belief because there is no convincing reason to do otherwise and professing that something doesn't exist is also an unprovable statement. Same is true for me.

I just love it when people try to tell me atheism is a "belief." Belief in what, precisely?
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It's always good to know, where one believes to stand.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Not sure if this was directed at me, or given as proof of concept to "it's just me." But I'll vouch for it. I'm an atheist. Most atheist simply lack belief because there is no convincing reason to do otherwise and professing that something doesn't exist is also an unprovable statement. Same is true for me.

I just love it when people try to tell me atheism is a "belief." Belief in what, precisely?
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You were merely supporting evidence for my point.
I agree completely.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
No it's the alien-believers who are the only ones who believe in anything remotely resembling fairies.

Ad hominem BTW.
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Is believing in the possibility the same as believing in the reality?

Furthermore, if you ask me if I believe aliens exist I would say, that I haven't seen any evidence they exist. If you ask me if I think it's possible, given what I know about chemistry, biology and physics, I'd say yes. The reason I can say yes in this case but say no when asked about the Christian god has to do with the consequence of belief.

Believing that aliens might exist does not make a single demand, nor alter my life or the decisions I make in any meaningful way. If I'm ever faced with having to make decisions based on my belief that alien life is possible, I reserve the right to re-evaluate my position and change it if necessary.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

joG said:
It's always good to know, where one believes to stand.
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Not everyone has beliefs about deities. It's not required. It is perfectly legitimate to abstain from believing anything when there is no reason to do so.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

calamity said:
Most of us know this intrinsically. The Universe is rife with life. However, until we have concrete proof, many people will continue to deny its possibility...especially the flat-earthers who still believe the universe is 6000 years old. They will deny anything, regardless the proof, if it conflicts with their good book.

Bottom line though, with billions of galaxies and trillions of stars and perhaps trillions upon trillions of planets, it's impossible for there not to be life out there. Most of this is assured by the fact that our water came from outerspace as did the amino acids which formed dna and spawned the first living cells, all of it delivered to our little planet via the bombardment of meteors. Those findings created for me the slam-dunk moment.

Now, it's become even more of a lock, as NASA scientists agree: we are not alone.

We Are Not Alone In Universe, NASA Scientists Say


So, my question: is the jury still out, or are most of us in agreement: we are not alone?
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There are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars. A hundred billion is 10 ^11, making the total number of stars 10 ^22.

If 1% of those stars have solar systems, that makes 10^20 solar systems.

And if only one in 10,000 solar systems have Earth like planets, that's 10^ 16 Earth like planets.

And if intelligent life is so rare than only one in a million planets has it, that's 10 ^10 planets with intelligent life.

So, if those pessimistic numbers are accurate, then there should be 10,000,000,000 civilizations out there somewhere.

Or, we could be alone. Moreover, this life could be all that there is. If that is so, then intelligent life will soon end. When it does, no one will be around to even wonder what may have happened on the little dust mote we call "Earth", let alone care. Nothing will remain but the silence of space, the nothingness of a universe without life.

In fact, if there is no one to see the universe, it may not even exist at all.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

calamity said:
Most of us know this intrinsically. The Universe is rife with life. However, until we have concrete proof, many people will continue to deny its possibility...especially the flat-earthers who still believe the universe is 6000 years old. They will deny anything, regardless the proof, if it conflicts with their good book.

Bottom line though, with billions of galaxies and trillions of stars and perhaps trillions upon trillions of planets, it's impossible for there not to be life out there. Most of this is assured by the fact that our water came from outerspace as did the amino acids which formed dna and spawned the first living cells, all of it delivered to our little planet via the bombardment of meteors. Those findings created for me the slam-dunk moment.

Now, it's become even more of a lock, as NASA scientists agree: we are not alone.

We Are Not Alone In Universe, NASA Scientists Say


So, my question: is the jury still out, or are most of us in agreement: we are not alone?
Click to expand...

Being alone is the least of my worries, being the strongest is the most.

I can care less if there were aliens, so long as we have the power to tell them to **** off if need be and if attacked, the ability to deliver such devastating power that they will either relent or face extermination.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Not everyone has beliefs about deities. It's not required. It is perfectly legitimate to abstain from believing anything when there is no reason to do so.
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Atheist means without God or Gods not indifferent to such.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

joG said:
Atheist means without God or Gods not indifferent to such.
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if you do not have a belief in god(s), you are "without god(s)" are you not? The level of indifference has no bearing.

edit: we are straying off topic a tad
 
Re: We're Not Alone

joG said:
Atheist means without God or Gods not indifferent to such.
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No, it doesn't. "Theist" does not mean "god." It means "one who believes in god," derived from "Theos," which is "god" in Greek. The prefix "a-" means "non-" or "without." Thus, atheist means, "non-believer in god," or "without belief in god." It is a negative position -- a lack of a position.

Atheism is a lack of belief in deities. It is not a claim. It is simply the default state of mind, given that theists have failed to provide evidence for their claims.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

marduc said:
only if you rely on arguments with premises that are faulty or unable to be substantiated themselves is that the case. The "logical necessity" claims generally are elaborate "god of the gaps" or argument from ignorance constructions
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No they're not.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Koros said:
Ad hominem or not, the thread is not talking about the claim that "aliens DO exist," but in the mathematical likelihood that they exist.

That said, I fail to see a difference between those who claim aliens exist and are visiting us and your belief in your god. Both are based on circumstantial evidence, at best, and require huge leaps in logic.
Click to expand...

Actually it seems to authoritatively say "we are not alone."

As far as we know, yes we are.

The odds against creating life are pretty staggering.

The possibility of any kind of interaction with organisms in other galaxies is the realm of science fiction even within most science fiction.

But yes, it is possible for there to maybe be other sapient life in the Milky Way and maybe we could one day travel FTL. Maybe.

Can't do it now, won't happen any time soon, don't know about 'em yet, won't waste much time thinking / arguing about it.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
You can believe your baseless imaginary tales if you want. I'll stick with reality.
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Reality is life starting amino acids arrived here via icy rocks....maybe 4 billion years ago. They arrived here from space, where they had 10 billion years to do all sorts of wonderful things everywhere else before earth became more than just a cloud of dust.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

calamity said:
Reality is life starting amino acids arrived here via icy rocks....maybe 4 billion years ago. They arrived here from space, where they had 10 billion years to do all sorts of wonderful things everywhere else before earth became more than just a cloud of dust.
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Reality is life exists here only.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
Reality is life exists here only.
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And you are 100% positive of that fact? When the most educated, most experienced, astronomers in the world can't say that for sure, how do you think YOU have the ability to say so?
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Koros said:
And you are 100% positive of that fact? When the most educated, most experienced, astronomers in the world can't say that for sure, how do you think YOU have the ability to say so?
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I'm 100% certain that no intelligent life exists on other planets, because the idea that they do is the a resurrected form of the heresy of antipodeanism.
 
Re: We're Not Alone

Paleocon said:
I'm 100% certain that no intelligent life exists on other planets, because the idea that they do is the a resurrected form of the heresy of antipodeanism.
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Ah, so anyone who believes that there could be alien civilizations is guilty of heresy.
 
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