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Godly Wisdom vs. Human Intelligence[W:319]

Logicman

Logicman

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Quote from link below: 'Have you ever heard the claim "all smart people are atheists", or maybe its inverse: "people who believe in God are dumb"? It's quite a pervasive urban legend, and one which I've known is false for a long time, but I didn't realize just how false until the other day. I recently decided to do a quick cataloging of the ten highest IQ's on earth, and discovered that it's nearly the exact opposite of the truth!

Of 10 highest IQ's on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians

Andrew Magdy Kamal - apparently the highest IQ ever recorded, at 231.734. This was accomplished last year (2013) just before he turned 17. This includes an adjustment made for his age (which is done routinely for minors), so only time will tell if he maintains his position, but he is listed in Record Holder's Republic for Highest IQ and Highest IQ average, and it looks pretty good. He is a staunch conservative and a member of the Republican Tea Party. He is also the founder of the Coptic Orthodox Messianicans Group. Andrew Magdy Kamal hopes to use his talents and intelligence to spread the news of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) his hero, and he lives in Michigan."

Of 10 highest IQ's on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians - Honolulu Church & State | Examiner.com

Which leads into the debate: Contrast Godly wisdom vs. human intelligence.
 
OP example: Barack Hussein Obama

Here is a man who alleges to be a Christian but IMO is anything but. He routinely throws the Word of God under the bus in favor of Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals.'

Obama was hailed as the liberal Messiah. He was portrayed as one with uncommon intelligence and a high IQ. He was going to unite Americans and bring the world together in peace and relative harmony. Instead virtually his entire presidency turned out to be a disaster and he is currently buried in one scandal after another. In a recent poll he was identified as the worst president since World War II. Instead of being a humble man in a recent speech he used the first person singulars "I" "Me" and "My" 199 times. ‘I,’ ‘Me,’ ‘My’—Obama Uses First Person Singular 199 Times in Speech Vowing Unilateral Action | CNS News

He traded in the wisdom of God for a foul-smelling load of moral relativism and political correctness.

Without Godly wisdom his human intelligence was an embarrassment.
 
Logicman said:
Which leads into the debate: Contrast Godly wisdom vs. human intelligence.
Click to expand...

After the OT, God gave up on wisdom altogether.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21
 
Logicman said:
Quote from link below: 'Have you ever heard the claim "all smart people are atheists", or maybe its inverse: "people who believe in God are dumb"? It's quite a pervasive urban legend, and one which I've known is false for a long time, but I didn't realize just how false until the other day. I recently decided to do a quick cataloging of the ten highest IQ's on earth, and discovered that it's nearly the exact opposite of the truth!

Of 10 highest IQ's on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians
....
Click to expand...

Boy! Are the atheists going to throw the book at you.
 
Are you trying to make the claim that the composition of the top 10 samples somehow correlates to the average of all the samples? For example: If the top 10 killers in history happened to be religious, does that make the average religious person a killer? The fact that you're using a sample size of 10 to prove a point for 6 billion people shows you already fail in the intelligence department. Saudi Arabia is almost 100% religious, but when is the last time you've heard of them doing anything intelligent?

In reality, of 63 studies concerning the correlation between intelligence and religiousness, 53 showed a negative correlation between the two: [1][2]

800px-LynnHarveyNyborg-Atheism-IQ.svg.png

(If you need help understanding the chart please ask)

The more educated one becomes, the less likely they are to be religious. At some point in most people's education, they ask themselves "Does it really make sense that all human life on earth came from 2 people in the jungle 6,000 years ago?". Or "How could all of the animals in the world have swam to the middle east, boarded a single boat, then returned to their respective locations just 4,000 years ago?"

If you're uneducated and don't know of the massive amount of evidence proving that isn't the case, you're likely to continue believing it. It's easy to believe in fairytales when you actively reject knowledge.
 
I enjoyed your use of IQ as an indicator of having intelligence, and then incorrect grammar usage as an indicator of a lack of it.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Are you trying to make the claim that the composition of the top 10 samples somehow correlates to the average of all the samples? For example: If the top 10 killers in history happened to be religious, does that make the average religious person a killer? The fact that you're using a sample size of 10 to prove a point for 6 billion people shows you already fail in the intelligence department. Saudi Arabia is almost 100% religious, but when is the last time you've heard of them doing anything intelligent?

The more educated one becomes, the less likely they are to be religious.
Click to expand...

That's where your "logic" fails. Being prepped for 16-20 years in secular education tends in itself to weed people off religion. It's the bias which does it. While at the same time I don't see people with Ph.D.'s in religious studies, etc., as being any less intelligent than those with secular educations.

And by the way, just how intelligent is our current Commander-in-Chief in light of the messes he's created?

RabidAlpaca said:
At some point in most people's education, they ask themselves "Does it really make sense that all human life on earth came from 2 people in the jungle 6,000 years ago?".
Click to expand...

Isn't it science that gave us "Mitochondrial Eve," the mother of civilization? At least the Bible gave us a couple to relate to. Also, your 6,000 year argument is highly debatable, as there are arguably significant gaps in the genealogies, etc.

RabidAlpaca said:
If you're uneducated and don't know of the massive amount of evidence proving that isn't the case, you're likely to continue believing it. It's easy to believe in fairytales when you actively reject knowledge.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of lesser-educated folks in this world who possess Godly wisdom enough that one day they will make it into eternal life, where the godless, "intellectual" crowd will go crying and pleading at the Pearly Gates.
 
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Logicman said:
Which leads into the debate: Contrast Godly wisdom vs. human intelligence.
Click to expand...

Considering that "Godly wisdom" is a product of human intelligence at the time, then human intelligence wins. :)
 
DDD said:
Considering that "Godly wisdom" is a product of human intelligence at the time, then human intelligence wins. :)
Click to expand...

Nope, Godly wisdom is from God, not from intelligence.
 
RabidAlpaca summed it up nicely. You cannot use cherry-picked data from 10 people and assume it is indicative of the whole of human society. That is just intellectual dishonesty and utter blindness.
 
Intelligence is data, information. Wisdom is the ability to determine what to do with that data.

Not sure what god has to do with either?
 
Smart people know it's better for your career, when polled about religion, to just claim Christian.
 
Religiosity and intelligence - Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence]

The topic of religiosity and intelligence is the statistical relationship between intelligence and religiosity. Studies have begun to explore the link between religiosity and issues related to intelligence and educational level in countries as well as on the individual level.

Most of the recent scientific studies have found a Negative correlation between I.Q. and religiosity.[1][2]
[.......]​


Logicman said:
....
Andrew Magdy Kamal - apparently the highest IQ ever recorded, at 231.734. This was accomplished last year (2013) just before he turned 17. This includes an adjustment made for his age (which is done routinely for minors), so only time will tell if he maintains his position, but he is listed in Record Holder's Republic for Highest IQ and Highest IQ average, and it looks pretty good. He is a staunch conservative and a member of the Republican Tea Party. He is also the founder of the Coptic Orthodox Messianicans Group. Andrew Magdy Kamal hopes to use his talents and intelligence to spread the news of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) his hero, and he lives in Michigan."
...
Click to expand...
Same source, different story:
http://www.examiner.com/article/andrew-magdy-kamal-holds-the-world-s-highest-iq]

Ft.Lauderdale,FL--Who is the Highest IQ scorer in the world? Andrew Magdy Kamal's world record for highest IQ have been accepted by Unique World Records. Now it is listed on Record Holder's Republic, and Unique World Records. Andrew Magdy Kamal's world record is an IQ of 232. It took him less then 30 minutes and every question was correct....
Andrew Magdy Kamal, born with Aspergers and Savant syndrome, may be one of the greatest Child prodigies in history.[......]​

So because a 16/17 Year old 'Rainman' has a High IQ we should believe his well-adjusted/long-thought-out religious beliefs?
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
800px-LynnHarveyNyborg-Atheism-IQ.svg.png

(If you need help understanding the chart please ask)
Click to expand...

I understand the chart. But looks to me like it proves the opposite of what you are claiming.

If you look to the left of the 50% atheist line, these are the majority of non-atheists. Note how many data points are above IQ 100, vs. the data points to the right of 50%.
 
Here is what I mean, shown more clearly:

Religion vs Intelligence.jpg
 
Logicman said:
Quote from link below: 'Have you ever heard the claim "all smart people are atheists", or maybe its inverse: "people who believe in God are dumb"? It's quite a pervasive urban legend, and one which I've known is false for a long time, but I didn't realize just how false until the other day. I recently decided to do a quick cataloging of the ten highest IQ's on earth, and discovered that it's nearly the exact opposite of the truth!

Of 10 highest IQ's on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians

Andrew Magdy Kamal - apparently the highest IQ ever recorded, at 231.734. This was accomplished last year (2013) just before he turned 17. This includes an adjustment made for his age (which is done routinely for minors), so only time will tell if he maintains his position, but he is listed in Record Holder's Republic for Highest IQ and Highest IQ average, and it looks pretty good. He is a staunch conservative and a member of the Republican Tea Party. He is also the founder of the Coptic Orthodox Messianicans Group. Andrew Magdy Kamal hopes to use his talents and intelligence to spread the news of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) his hero, and he lives in Michigan."

Of 10 highest IQ's on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians - Honolulu Church & State | Examiner.com

Which leads into the debate: Contrast Godly wisdom vs. human intelligence.
Click to expand...
High IQ does not automatically equate to having common sense.
 
mbig said:
Religiosity and intelligence - Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence]

The topic of religiosity and intelligence is the statistical relationship between intelligence and religiosity. Studies have begun to explore the link between religiosity and issues related to intelligence and educational level in countries as well as on the individual level.

Most of the recent scientific studies have found a Negative correlation between I.Q. and religiosity.[1][2]
[.......]​

Same source, different story:
http://www.examiner.com/article/andrew-magdy-kamal-holds-the-world-s-highest-iq]

Ft.Lauderdale,FL--Who is the Highest IQ scorer in the world? Andrew Magdy Kamal's world record for highest IQ have been accepted by Unique World Records. Now it is listed on Record Holder's Republic, and Unique World Records. Andrew Magdy Kamal's world record is an IQ of 232. It took him less then 30 minutes and every question was correct....
Andrew Magdy Kamal, born with Aspergers and Savant syndrome, may be one of the greatest Child prodigies in history.[......]​

So because a 16/17 Year old 'Rainman' has a High IQ we should believe his well-adjusted/long-thought-out religious beliefs?
Click to expand...

You guys keep making the same mistakes - relating IQ with intelligence, or religiosity with intelligence.

When the OP issue is contrasting that with Godly wisdom!

Example: Slick Willie Clinton was another character (like Obama) who was supposed to be another great intellect, who traded in the Word of God for a heaping does of moral relativism and political correctness. His (quote) high IQ and intelligence didn't serve him very well when he was impeached for being a moral leper. He should have heeded God's Word against adultery, etc., instead of trying to impress as an intellectual.
 
Logicman said:
You guys keep making the same mistakes - relating IQ with intelligence, or religiosity with intelligence.

When the OP issue is contrasting that with Godly wisdom!
Example: Slick Willie Clinton was another character (like Obama) who was supposed to be another great intellect, who traded in the Word of God for a heaping does of moral relativism and political correctness. His (quote) high IQ and intelligence didn't serve him very well when he was impeached for being a moral leper. He should have heeded God's Word against adultery, etc., instead of trying to impress as an intellectual.
Click to expand...
The results of a 16 year old's IQ test (most of your Goofy OP and it's claim to fame), does NOT show Wisdom. It shows a teenage prodigy/Idiot Savant who is a 'messianic' Christian.
Teenagers have not developed 'Wisdom'.
The FALLACY of calling it Wisdom was all YOURS.

ALL Your posts are Breathtakingly IGNORANT and FALLACIOUS.
Here was your Juvenile answer in our last exchange:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...ain-religious-astronaut-3.html#post1063510132
It's Childish Last-wording nonsense after you were 100% Porked again.

Your posts are BENEATH debate in terms of logic, but are useful in proving the point about the Negative correlation between IQ and Religiosity.
 
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mbig said:
The results of a 16 year old's IQ test (most of your Goofy OP and it's claim to fame), does NOT show Wisdom. It shows a teenage prodigy/Idiot Savant who is a 'messianic' Christian.
Teenagers have not developed 'Wisdom'.
The FALLACY of calling it Wisdom was all YOURS.

ALL Your posts are Breathtakingly IGNORANT and FALLACIOUS.
Here was your Juvenile answer in our last exchange:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...ain-religious-astronaut-3.html#post1063510132
It's Childish Last-wording nonsense after you were 100% Porked again.

Your posts are BENEATH debate in terms of logic, but are useful in proving the point about the Negative correlation between IQ and Religiosity.
Click to expand...

You're full of folly, as usual.

Two prime examples have already been provided to you of your intellectual giants (Obama and Clinton) and how, because of their lack of Godly wisdom, they have embarrassed themselves and hurt our country.

And like I said earlier, there's a lot of lesser-educated folks in this world who possess Godly wisdom enough that one day they will make it into eternal life, where the godless, "intellectual" crowd will go crying and pleading at the Pearly Gates. The latter would be you and yours, right? So learn and be forewarned.
 
Using politics to justify your religion is weak sauce.
 
Thorgasm said:
Using politics to justify your religion is weak sauce.
Click to expand...

Nope. Those were clear lessons that exposed the lack of Godly wisdom in so-called "intelligent" people - i.e. Clinton and Obama - the pride of the liberal left.
 
I don't know why it really matters. Doesn't the bible say that god reveals himself to the simple minded - or words along those lines.

There's no inherent goodness of a high iq. And when it comes to a belief in god or anything else unprovable it doesn't mean a thing. In fact, as we see constantly, especially on the internet, the supposed "smart" atheists are the ones who are as rigid and dogmatic as any "dumb" believer.
 
mbig said:
ALL Your posts are Breathtakingly IGNORANT and FALLACIOUS.
Here was your Juvenile answer in our last exchange:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...ain-religious-astronaut-3.html#post1063510132
It's Childish Last-wording nonsense after you were 100% Porked again.
Click to expand...

That's just more hubris on your part. I labeled it horse manure because it was. Your key arguments were absolute drivel:

Your argument #1. The Bible is circular reasoning because you can't use the Bible to prove the Bible.

The reason that is drivel is because the New Testament in the first century wasn't the "Bible". It was 27 separate manuscripts by various authors, floating around different cities and localities, which either directly or indirectly confirmed the life, death, teachings, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Your "circular reasoning" argument itself is absurd. That’s like saying you can’t prove that the President lives in the White House by looking into the White House. It is looking into the White House that will provide the necessary proof that the President lives there.

Your argument (claim) #2. Your 2nd jewel was this reach: There is No proof of the divinity of Jesus outside the the largely mythical NT.

Which begs the question: Where's your evidence the New Testament is mythical? You can start with the Gospels first. You made the claim it's mythical, you back it up.
 
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