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2014 or 1914 - Your Preference

I am

  • male, and glad I was born when I was born

    Votes: 31 73.8%

  • male, and wish I was born 100 years earlier

    Votes: 2 4.8%

  • female, and glad I was born when I was born

    Votes: 6 14.3%

  • female, and wish I was born 100 years earlier

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • other - please explain

    Votes: 3 7.1%
  • Total voters
    42
Paleocon said:
I don't know where any specific individual is, but the ones who were wicked very likely are.
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and the residents of medieval China, India, North and South America, the ones who never heard about Jesus, are they in Hell also?
 
Dittohead not! said:
and the residents of medieval China, India, North and South America, the ones who never heard about Jesus, are they in Hell also?
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Of course. God is a pyschopath who punished people who had never heard of him, through no fault of their own. Or so I've been told by another Christian believer in these very forums.
 
zyzygy said:
Yet they deserved to be supreme? Give me democracy and separation of church and state. Belief in a god or gods should be private and personal.
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The Supremacy comes from the office, not the person.
 
Quag said:
You said it wasn't common.
You were wrong it was very common.
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The institution of Popery was flawed just like all human institutions. Also, if Paleocon went back in time to the Middle Ages he wouldn't last a week. None of us would.
 
Paleocon said:
The Supremacy comes from the office, not the person.
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No. It comes from their behaviour in office. Saying that your power comes from an imaginary being does not give one carte blanche.
 
Dittohead not! said:
and the residents of medieval China, India, North and South America, the ones who never heard about Jesus, are they in Hell also?
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There are two relevant meanings of the word Hell. There is hell generally, anywhere that is not Heaven. Including the limbus infantum. It is my opinion (although the doctrine of the Church is unsettled here) that only heathens with perfect charity could escape hell in this sense, so only a very small number of them, with the majority going to hell.

The other sense refers to the place of eternal torment. In this second sense, the majority of invincibly ignorant probably end up here anyway, although a substantial number would end up in the limbus infant in.

Suffice to say, none will be eternally tormented save those who have culpably committed a mortal sin.
 
Paleocon said:
There are two relevant meanings of the word Hell. There is hell generally, anywhere that is not Heaven. Including the limbus infantum. It is my opinion (although the doctrine of the Church is unsettled here) that only heathens with perfect charity could escape hell in this sense, so only a very small number of them, with the majority going to hell.

The other sense refers to the place of eternal torment. In this second sense, the majority of invincibly ignorant probably end up here anyway, although a substantial number would end up in the limbus infant in.

Suffice to say, none will be eternally tormented save those who have culpably committed a mortal sin.
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One thing that is lacking is proof that hell exists.
 
zyzygy said:
The institution of Popery was flawed just like all human institutions. Also, if Paleocon went back in time to the Middle Ages he wouldn't last a week. None of us would.
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Actually I have certain skill sets that could help me out.
Of course it depends on when and where I went back, as a teenager I'd be screwed as an adult I'd be OK In France/England for a while as long as I didn't get sick or killed in a war or just on a whim of some psycho noble. One of the problems would be communication. I don't speak/read/write Latin making things difficult in terms of learning. Even English and French were quite different, though I would probably fare better than most due to my studies. Still the different accents of the period could make that even harder than I assume.

BTW I am assuming as I believe you are that we are just picked up from here and transported back to that time not born and raised within it.
 
Dittohead not! said:
People traveling anywhere for any purpose was not commonplace back before there were cars, planes, boats with motors, and highways.

I have to admit that most of the bad things I've heard about medieval Europe actually happened later than the time period you're interested in, the Spanish Inquisition, the black plague, the hundred years war, and so on, so we're back to whether or not you want to live without modern technology and modern medicine. Back then, you got sick, you either got well or you died, and no one knew why. Louis Pasteur was also centuries in the future.

What about the divine right of kings, was that from a later time as well?
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Paleocon said he would prefer to live 900 years ago i.e. in 1115. Life back then was Hobbesian - nasty, brutish and short. Average life expectancy was 30. Even if you made it to adulthood, you couldn't really expect to live to see 50. Infant mortality was around 50% and maternal mortality during or immediately post-partum was 20%.

In England during the Norman period just 12% of the male population were freemen, so 6% of the entire population were entitled to any of what we today would think of as self-determination. Most people were serfs i.e. peasants tied to a manor and required to work for the Lord of the Manor in return for being allowed to farm a small piece of land and live within the manor. Some who were not so 'fortunate' were simply slaves. That would be 9% of the male populations and, let's say 100% of the female population, as women had no right to any self-determination, not even the Queen.


Paleocon would change his tune very quickly if he were transported back to 1115, since I suspect the likelihood of him having an aristocratic Anglo-Norman bloodline must be fairly slim.
 
Andalublue said:
Paleocon said he would prefer to live 900 years ago i.e. in 1115. Life back then was Hobbesian - nasty, brutish and short. Average life expectancy was 30. Even if you made it to adulthood, you couldn't really expect to live to see 50. Infant mortality was around 50% and maternal mortality during or immediately post-partum was 20%.

In England during the Norman period just 12% of the male population were freemen, so 6% of the entire population were entitled to any of what we today would think of as self-determination. Most people were serfs i.e. peasants tied to a manor and required to work for the Lord of the Manor in return for being allowed to farm a small piece of land and live within the manor. Some who were not so 'fortunate' were simply slaves. That would be 9% of the male populations and, let's say 100% of the female population, as women had no right to any self-determination, not even the Queen.


Paleocon would change his tune very quickly if he were transported back to 1115, since I suspect the likelihood of him having an aristocratic Anglo-Norman bloodline must be fairly slim.
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I always liked the scene in Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, where Pontius Pilate has this bad headache and cannot concentrate on Jesus' trial.

No Bayer Aspirin.

PS: Good luck or bad? ;)
 
Quag said:
BTW I am assuming as I believe you are that we are just picked up from here and transported back to that time not born and raised within it.
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You assume correctly. If one had been born and raised back then you wouldn't be able to compare it. If anyone was sent back there from our time then they would be back very quickly.
 
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