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More Strong Evidence for Evolution: Anatomical Vestiges

tosca1 said:
How come there's been no single evidence of BENEFICIAL MUTATION in humans? Everything they show are all "on in the way out" or "no longer needed?"?
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I just gave you one. Did you not read it? :) Oh, and how about HbS? Classic example.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Read 3 research papers AND a book - for what? Your post is vague at best. I'm not sure what point, overall, you're trying to make.


[What is? - Believing in evolution but recognizing the modern dentistry has only just recently done away with our 'use' of Wisdom Teeth? That was my only point I brought up.]

[What do you mean by 'recent past' - what exactly are you trying to refer to here] [Which 'trait differences' are you trying to refer to, here]

[Which arguments - the papers you link to or the OP or our replies that you're responding to?]
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It points out the foolishness of this 'wisdom teeth' argument. They're remnants from our ancestors. Dentistry hasn't done away with our third molars. Smaller jaws appear to have been selected for evolutionarily. And, what do smaller jaws mean? Less from for teeth. Hence, third molars. Like I said, I'd read the papers and the book.

Trait differences of phenotypes of third molar formations. Again, paper points this out.
 
Manc Skipper said:
All snakes have them, so it's not "a growth". Inside the skin is a remnant pelvis, unnecessary in a legless animal, so why is it there?
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WRONG!

Not all snakes have pelvic bones.

In some snakes, most notably boas and pythons, there are vestiges of the hindlimbs in the form of a pair of pelvic spurs.
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- Wikipedia

Furthermore...


A credible evolutionary story should show ‘primitive’ snakes with pronounced legs, and as the snakes become more ‘advanced’, the legs should shrink. Yet the fossil record of snakes doesn’t demonstrate this.

Snakes dated as ‘older’ than the leggy ones have not been shown to have legs. Rather, the leggy ones seem to be ‘advanced’ in certain ways.

The previously described leggy snake Haasiophis terrasanctus was ‘advanced’ enough to unhinge its jaw to eat prey larger than its head, just as land constrictors like pythons do.

This and another leggy snake, Pachyrhachis problematicus, were ‘advanced snakes that re-evolved legs’, according to Olivier Rieppel of the Field Museum in Chicago.
In other words, he does not believe that this specimen is an evolutionary precursor to the first legless snake.


It is reminiscent of the peculiarity of one province in China churning out all the alleged feathered dinosaurs as well as the Archaeoraptor hoax, except that the leggy snake research lacks the questionable aspects of the feathered dino industry.

The legs are tiny compared to the size of the creature, in all three leggy snakes.
But even today, boas and pythons have ‘tiny “spurs” sited near their ends, which today are used as grippers during sex.’ See also Vestigial Organs: What do they prove?



Proof of evolution?
Even assuming it could be established that the ancestor of snakes today had legs, creationists have no problem in principle with loss of features through natural processes.

Development of leglessness is not evidence for molecules-to-man evolution, which requires the addition of new genetic information.
Loss of legs could be achieved through degeneration of the DNA information sequences that specify leg development. See also Beetle bloopers: Even a defect can be an advantage sometimes.

Another leggy snake? - creation.com
 
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tosca1 said:
How come there's been no single evidence of BENEFICIAL MUTATION in humans? Everything they show are all "on in the way out" or "no longer needed?"?
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Getting rid of excess useless parts isn't a beneficial mutation?
 
The Mark said:
Getting rid of excess useless parts isn't a beneficial mutation?
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Most snakes must've been confused.

The constrictors, even today, have ‘tiny “spurs” sited near their ends, which today are used as grippers during sex.

So, they're not useless at all. Are they vestigials or not?

I think they're just anomalies, period. That's why only some snakes have these tiny spurs, which aren't useless at all as stated above.
 
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Hey, evolutionists, do you know that if snakes did indeed used to have legs, then.....

.....it supports CREATION!


Genesis 3:14

So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!

You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.



There it is, in Genesis!

The full implication is that snakes started crawling on their bellies only after they were cursed by God. In other words, they didn't crawl before that!

So okay...I'll agree with you. Snakes used to have legs! And that's reflected in the BIBLE!
Everybody happy now? :lol:


That means I can use the snakes-used-to-have-legs evidence as an evidence for
INTELLIGENT DESIGN/DESIGNER....and of course, the DESIGNER IS THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN GOD!
 
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tosca1 said:
See what I mean? The snake had allegedly lost its legs! You call that a leg? That looks like just a growth to me!

Have you seen tags in humans? Could that be a snake tag?



SHOW US SOMETHING THAT'S BENEFICIALLY JUST DEVELOPING!
Show us evidence of a nascent organ!


Anyway, why do we still have our wisdom teeth? Why didn't we lose them?
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Dissections have proved that those are vestigial legs.
 
Hard Truth said:
Dissections have proved that those are vestigial legs.
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I won't bother with that argument. The answer just hit me - it actually fell on my lap.
I now agree with you.


See post #181.


PS

another poster - Votemout - apparently brought this up at post #2.
 
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tosca1 said:
I won't bother with that argument. The answer just hit me - it actually fell on my lap.
I now agree with you.


See post #181.


PS

another poster - Votemout - apparently brought this up at post #2.
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That smilie is scaring me
 
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