Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

Alter2Ego · May 26, 2014

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"

The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)

Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").

DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
"Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
Spontaneous dictionary definition | spontaneous defined

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopdia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)

SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

DDD · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

So just because there are relationships between elements this makes them God like precise and thereby non-evolutionary and non-Big Bang?

joG · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"

The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)

Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").

DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
"Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
Spontaneous dictionary definition | spontaneous defined

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopdia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)

SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

Probably the definition of a word by humans will not prove the existence of a God.

shlunka · May 26, 2014

Semantical arguments cannot prove the existence of a deity, unless you are either very high or very naive.

Rainman05 · May 26, 2014

If you're going to make a thread on this topic at least get some info first. Don't force people to come in and educate you.

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

The first 60 discovered elements on the period table. Discovered when? There are about 12 or so that already on the periodic table as it were because they were known since always. Copper, gold, etc.
Then you had elements like phosphorus and carbon added.
then iron, cobalt, tungsten, etc.
and so on and so on until you get to the ones that were sort of "helped" to be discovered like Berkelium.

So what is the precise relationship that you're talking about? The elements that got put first were the ones who were identified first and they were the ones who are more common in the world we live in. It's not divine intervention, it's common sense.

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

What law?
Ofc the atoms are related to one another... all atoms are atoms. The fact that you have an atom with the atomic mass of 14 or 16 it's still an atom. You have no idea what you're talking about.

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

No. It's not "accident" and "at random".
Evolution of species happens not by chance but because creatures adapt to the environment. In other words, it's the environment that shapes the creatures that live in in and the creatures adapt to the environment and if they can, they make changes to it. We, humanity, are the sole creature that can do massive change to our environment. Others can manipulate the environment around them (build dams if they're beavers or how termites build their homes) but they don't alter it according to their needs.

At some point 2-2.5mil years ago, our ancestors have splitted into 2 evolutionary branches.
One of them were the primates and the others are us, the hominids.

Primates evolved too over the course of these 2.5mil years and we see many iterations of them fit to survive according to their needs.
Chimps are the smartest of them but they're also highly social and agile. This is their survival mechanism.
Ourangutans aren't that social, in fact, they're the most solitary of primates but they're well adapted to survive in their environments. They've adapted to survive.

Hominids, us, developed dexterity in our hands, bipedalism and bigger brains for our survival as well as complex social and tribal structures. This is our survival mechanism. We became bipedal apes and that allowed us to use our hands for other things except climbing trees and using them for walking like gorrillas do. Our bigger brains allowed us to put 1+1 together and we used our hands to put into practice what we thought about and by using our hands more and more for complex tasks, over generations, this became a more desirable trait to have and we developed better dexterity and better eye-to-hand coordination and better brain capacity to work with our hands. All these things go hand in hand. Why? Because being bipedal meant that our arms were less strong. Look at gorrilas and other great apes arms. They're buffed like their legs or in some cases, even more so. Because that's their defense mecahnism.
But since we stopped using our arms for walking and have ended up using them for all sort of complex tasks... we don't need gorilla arms. WE can still develop them if you look at the body builders, sure, but they're not a desirable trait and hence, not everyone develops arms like The terminator but everyone has good dexterity in their arms or at least one arm and one hand. Well, not everyone because there is something called ambisinister which is the opposite of ambidextrous but that means you shouldn't handle heavy equipment.

You seem to be completely at a miss about what evolution is. Please, for the love of god, stop being ignorant. go wathc some youtube videos explaining this. don't watch the creationists or the intelligent design people. Intelligent design is stupid design. If we are made in the image of God, then God sux because we can't dive deep under water, we can't breathe underwater and 70% of our planet is covered by water. We aren't the best swimmers. We can't survive a lot of heat and we can't survive the cold which means we have to live in a very narrow spectrum of conditions. And a whole bunch of other things.

mbig · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
....

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

So if You find 100 different Color Pick-up-sticks thrown randomly on the ground... and YOU Arrange them by color gradation..
That's "evidence of god"?

And You never answered me in our last encounter on ANY post.
Not one!
MBIG to ALTEREGO who always whiffs:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...ble-inspired-god-w-52-a-9.html#post1063272912

Your NUTTY ideology defeated and not even in the realm of debate.
You can't answer coherently just go round the net baying at the moon.

The Universe is NOT perfect/"Precise", Its CHAOTIC.
Galaxies, planets Colliding, Stars Exploding, etc.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090710-galaxy-collision-quintet-picture.html

PHOTO: New View of Four-Galaxy Pileup

And: Galaxy Collisions
http://cas.sdss.org/dr7/en/proj/basic/galaxies/collisions.asp

That's Going to be US when we collide with Andromeda in a few Billion years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda–Milky_Way_collision

The Earth is NOT perfect/"precise" either.

-

`

And 99.9999999999999999999999% of the Universe is Hostile to us, god's Ostensibly 'purposeful' and 'ultimate' creation.
I'm not letting 'him' do my landscaping.

tecoyah · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"

The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)

Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").

DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
"Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
Spontaneous dictionary definition | spontaneous defined

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopdia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)

SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

I just had to read and agree to the rules of this forum because I apparently insulted someone by indicating they were somewhat dense....so I cannot reply to this fittingly. Instead I will attempt to explain my opinion is a less confrontational way.

I appreciate your opinions and unfortunately find them lacking, to me at least it seems you approach this with a predisposed bias that directs your thoughts toward an agenda that is not reality based. While there might be merit in your personal choices of intellectual pursuit, these are not amongst the mainstream.
It seems the understanding of evolution theory you have is somewhat limited and prevents you from discussing it in a way most consider fluent or worthwhile. This said, It is difficult to approach your Original post with commentary that might continue a civil debate.

Have a sparkly day!

Alter2Ego · May 26, 2014

Rainman05 said:
Alter2Ego said:

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

Click to expand...

The first 60 discovered elements on the period table. Discovered when? There are about 12 or so that already on the periodic table as it were because they were known since always. Copper, gold, etc.
Then you had elements like phosphorus and carbon added.
then iron, cobalt, tungsten, etc.
and so on and so on until you get to the ones that were sort of "helped" to be discovered like Berkelium.

ALTER2EGO -to- RAINMAN05:

And every single element that you listed above are all precise, in and of themselves. Not only that, they are all interrelated to one another. Is that by accident or design?

Rainman05 said:
So what is the precise relationship that you're talking about? The elements that got put first were the ones who were identified first and they were the ones who are more common in the world we live in. It's not divine intervention, it's common sense.

I thought you said you showed up in this thread to "educate" me. That is what you wrote in your very first paragraph. But you failed to read and understand the paragraphs where I explained the reason why the elements on the Periodic Table are considered to be precise?

Rainman05 said:
If you're going to make a thread on this topic at least get some info first. Don't force people to come in and educate you.

SUGGESTION: Go back and read my OP. Focus on the subtitle "AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:" and read the three paragraphs directly under it.

Alter2Ego · May 26, 2014

Rainman05 said:
Alter2Ego said:

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

Click to expand...

What law?
Ofc the atoms are related to one another... all atoms are atoms. The fact that you have an atom with the atomic mass of 14 or 16 it's still an atom. You have no idea what you're talking about.

ALTER2EGO -to- RAINMAN05:

I am talking about Periodic Law, which was applied to the Periodic Table by the scientists in academia.

"PERIODIC LAW, in chemistry, law stating that many of the physical and chemical properties of the elements tend to recur in a systematic manner with increasing atomic number. Progressing from the lightest to the heaviest atoms, certain properties of the elements approximate those of precursors at regular intervals of 2, 8, 18, and 32. For example, the 2d element (helium) is similar in its chemical behavior to the 10th (neon), as well as to the 18th (argon), the 36th (krypton), the 54th (xenon), and the 86th (radon). The chemical family called the halogens, composed of elements 9 (fluorine), 17 (chlorine), 35 (bromine), 53 (iodine), and 85 (astatine), is an extremely reactive family."

PERIODIC LAW

So clearly I know what I am talking about and you, on the other hand, apparently do not have a clue about Periodic Law.

Rainman05 said:
Alter2Ego said:

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

Click to expand...

No. It's not "accident" and "at random".
Evolution of species happens not by chance but because creatures adapt to the environment. In other words, it's the environment that shapes the creatures that live in in and the creatures adapt to the environment and if they can, they make changes to it. We, humanity, are the sole creature that can do massive change to our environment. Others can manipulate the environment around them (build dams if they're beavers or how termites build their homes) but they don't alter it according to their needs.

This thread is not about evolution theory or big bang theory. I simply mentioned those two fairy tales in passing. If you want to discuss evolution theory, I am discussing that in my thread entitled: "Genesis Creation vs. Darwin's Macroevolution Myth. You can get there quickly by means of the following weblink:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...-creation-vs-darwins-macroevolution-myth.html

Slartibartfast · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"

The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)

Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").

DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
"Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
Spontaneous dictionary definition | spontaneous defined

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopdia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)

SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

The banana is a good example

mbig · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
[SIZE=]ALTER2EGO -to- RAINMAN05:

And every single element that you listed above are all precise, in and of themselves. Not only that, they are all interrelated to one another. Is that by accident or design?[/SIZE][COLOR]

MBIG to ALTER2EGO .. again.

You STILL are WRONG and Could NOT Answer my Refutation of your "Extremely Precise" Boner.
All your questions/declarations use FALSE Premises as assumptions.
I bust every one instantly.
You can't even begin to debate me nor even reply to me.

It would be more indicative of God if they were NOT Interrelated.

Like Human Evolution, if Man DIDN'T have a Traceable lineage, THAT Would be more likely evidence of god, though NOT Jesus-whoever.

If Man and molecules had No relationship to simpler forms that would be a better case (tho not Proof) of 'creationism' rather than closely related evolved forms of matter or life.

Doesn't look like any giant interruption of evolution with radical new 'creation' to me.

and MBIG to ALTEREGO:
Why do we/humans have Anatomical Remnants of our predecessors if we didn't evolve from them!
(ie, the Coccyx/coxis/TAILBONE)
Did 'god' screw up again?

You Can NEVER answer me.
See page one here.
Until/Unless you can, your Prosletyzing here remains BaseLESS and INSINCERE BS.

Paschendale · May 26, 2014

Design and accident are not the only two choices. The one that seems prevalent in our universe is evolution and adaptation. This applies not only to biological life but inorganic matter, too. What works sticks around. What doesn't, doesn't. This is true of elements, animals, and nebulae. Stars operate in a pretty uniform way. This is not because stars are specially created that way. It's because stars that don't function well don't last.

The term "precision" here doesn't really fit the way it's being used. That helium and hydrogen function differently because they have different numbers of protons and electrons has nothing to do with "precision". Nor does that elements are related to each other. That's just different things being different, but not too different.

The argument that existence not only proves a diety but one specific one and not any others... it's just nonsense. There is nothing like a deep misunderstanding of science to make one grope around in the dark for magic.

Alter2Ego · May 26, 2014

mbig said:
So if You find 100 different Color Pick-up-sticks thrown randomly on the ground... and YOU Arrange them by color gradation..
That's "evidence of god"?

ALTER2EGO -to- MBIG:

If you found 100 different Pick-up-sticks thrown randomly on the ground, does that mean the Pick-up-sticks were not created by an intelligent being aka a human?

Are you telling this forum that the Pick-up-sticks created themselves?

mbig · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- MBIG:
If you found 100 different Pick-up-sticks thrown randomly on the ground, does that mean the Pick-up-sticks were not created by an intelligent being aka a human?

Are you telling this forum that the Pick-up-sticks created themselves?

Huh?
I'm telling Man created the Pick-up-sticks and arranged them into what YOU compared to a the Period Elements table.
That was OUR arrangement.
And I add 'Relatedness' in the case of Animals or elements points to evolution more than creation.

And is that ALL You are going answer from my post.
Here was the BULK You had to Fan on.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - -

mbig on Page 1 said:
So if You find 100 different Color Pick-up-sticks thrown randomly on the ground... and YOU Arrange them by color gradation..
That's "evidence of god"?

And You never answered me in our last encounter on ANY post.
Not one!
MBIG to ALTEREGO who always whiffs:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...ble-inspired-god-w-52-a-9.html#post1063272912

Your NUTTY ideology defeated and not even in the realm of debate.
You can't answer coherently just go round the net baying at the moon.

The Universe is NOT perfect/"Precise", Its CHAOTIC.
Galaxies, planets Colliding, Stars Exploding, etc.

PHOTO: New View of Four-Galaxy Pileup

PHOTO: New View of Four-Galaxy Pileup

And: Galaxy Collisions
Galaxy Collisions

That's Going to be US when we collide with Andromeda in a few Billion years
Andromeda

The Earth is NOT perfect/"precise" either.

-

`

And 99.9999999999999999999999% of the Universe is Hostile to us, god's Ostensibly 'purposeful' and 'ultimate' creation.
I'm not letting 'him' do my landscaping.

Anytime you and "extreme precision" are up to it dear.
As we Both know, that Means NEVER.
Your posts are proselytizing Inanity.

iguanaman · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"

The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)

Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").

DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
"Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
Spontaneous dictionary definition | spontaneous defined

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopdia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)

SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?

Let me get this clear. You believe there is a God because two comes after one and three comes after two? Tell me what atomic elements would look like in a totally random universe? Exactly the same ...that's what.

Alter2Ego · May 26, 2014

mbig said:
Alter2Ego said:

ALTER2EGO -to- MBIG:

If you found 100 different Pick-up-sticks thrown randomly on the ground, does that mean the Pick-up-sticks were not created by an intelligent being aka a human?

Are you telling this forum that the Pick-up-sticks created themselves?

Click to expand...

Huh?
I'm telling Man created the Pick-up-sticks and arranged them into what YOU compared to a the Period Elements table.
That was OUR arrangement.

ALTER2EGO -to- MBIG:

So by your own admission, it required the intelligent intervention of a human to create the measley Pick-up-sticks. But you want to argue that the far more complex universe, including the elements on the Periodic Table, did not likewise require a Intelligent Designer/Creator?

grip · May 26, 2014

According to physicists there should've been an equal amount of antimatter in the Big Bang expansion and cooling period to have annihilated matter. But for some reason nature favored matter, slightly, over antimatter and created the physical universe.

The other thing is that I believe it took some form of intellect to create intelligence. It doesn't make sense that a higher form of order arose from chaos, or that humans are the supreme consciousness of something as grand as the universe.

mbig · May 26, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- MBIG:

So by your own admission, it required the intelligent intervention of a human to create the measley Pick-up-sticks. But you want to argue that the far more complex universe, including the elements on the Periodic Table, did not likewise require a Intelligent Designer/Creator?[COLOR][SIZE]

I'll go you One better.
Who Created God?
Why is the Spontaneous ignition of Life from KNOWN elements/soup Less likely than an Omni-everything god (like 10,000 other FALSE gods) coming into existence from .. Nothing.

The Only thing we Can prove is that Man Created gods: Tens of Thousands of Gods including Your BS god who is no better than the Northwest Native American Bear God.
We used to have a Fire god before we understood that.
Like Every other god, it turned out to be false.
That's what happens you you ILLogically assign 'god' to anything you don't understand.
The SMART/Truthful answer is "we don't know"/"We don't know Yet".

And Still No answer to your BUSTED "extreme Precision".
Fraudulent posting.

CLAX1911 · May 26, 2014

tacomancer said:
The banana is a good example

When that got slid that banana into his hand, and the made like he was going to eat it, made me think of something else perfectly designed to enter the human mouth. Lol

Slartibartfast · May 26, 2014

CLAX1911 said:
When that got slid that banana into his hand, and the made like he was going to eat it, made me think of something else perfectly designed to enter the human mouth. Lol

that also fits perfectly in the hand and mouth. coincidence or proof?

CLAX1911 · May 26, 2014

People see what they want, people believe what they want. Can't say any more than that.

CLAX1911 · May 26, 2014

tacomancer said:
that also fits perfectly in the hand and mouth. coincidence or proof?

It's absolute proof God exists and loves us lol.

Slartibartfast · May 26, 2014

CLAX1911 said:
It's absolute proof God exists and loves us lol.

too bad beer bottles aren't found in nature.

CLAX1911 · May 27, 2014

tacomancer said:
too bad beer bottles aren't found in nature.

You have never seen a beer tree?

Rainman05 · May 27, 2014

Alter2Ego said:
ALTER2EGO -to- RAINMAN05:

I am talking about Periodic Law, which was applied to the Periodic Table by the scientists in academia.

"PERIODIC LAW, in chemistry, law stating that many of the physical and chemical properties of the elements tend to recur in a systematic manner with increasing atomic number. Progressing from the lightest to the heaviest atoms, certain properties of the elements approximate those of precursors at regular intervals of 2, 8, 18, and 32. For example, the 2d element (helium) is similar in its chemical behavior to the 10th (neon), as well as to the 18th (argon), the 36th (krypton), the 54th (xenon), and the 86th (radon). The chemical family called the halogens, composed of elements 9 (fluorine), 17 (chlorine), 35 (bromine), 53 (iodine), and 85 (astatine), is an extremely reactive family."
PERIODIC LAW

So clearly I know what I am talking about and you, on the other hand, apparently do not have a clue about Periodic Law.

This thread is not about evolution theory or big bang theory. I simply mentioned those two fairy tales in passing. If you want to discuss evolution theory, I am discussing that in my thread entitled: "Genesis Creation vs. Darwin's Macroevolution Myth. You can get there quickly by means of the following weblink:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...-creation-vs-darwins-macroevolution-myth.html

You're hopeless. I'm not going to bother explaining you things you should have learned in 5th grade chemistry.

Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

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