The ultimate test to prove God is real and exists

So inspired by a lot of threads that have been going on here, I've decided to post my own method to prove, beyond all doubt that God, our God, Christian God, is real. Like totally real. And how to prove that he isn't. And I'm saying the Christian God because all other gods are bollocks and if any of the other major religions in the world is real, God help us all. especially if hinduism turns out to be real and the one true religion... then we're really screwed.

Get ready folks, we're taking a ride.

So because God created us in his image, gave us dominion over life and everything and there is no line in the bible to say he created any other creature that has such capabilities... then what we should do is explore the universe.

Christians who want to prove God is real should be right now diving balls deep into science and technology, especially astrophysics, engineering and programming and find ways to travel the stars. Why? Here are the hypothesis:

How to prove that God is real:

1. If find intelligent life on another planet, and it is human life, like us, so they're basically human beings only on another planet... then that is proof that God is real. Because he created us in His image and therefore, maybe he created humanity elsewhere too. After all, we have been given the right to be the masters of everything. Everything was given to us for our use. So ofc, if there would be intelligent life capable of dominating the world, and there is a God who makes such creatures in his image, then they must be human. Like us. Or at least, in some stage of evolution that we were in or that could lead to us. So if we find neanderthals, that's good enough, even if you don't believe in evolution.

2. We explore all the known universe. all 13bil lightyears of it (lightyear is a measure of distance btw) and we find no other intelligent life. We may find life, but not intelligent life or as intelligent as we are. So we find creatures that act in pacts or whatever, but no intelligent life that can match us. Because again, we've been granted dominion over all living things and there is nowhere in the Bible to say that God created any other "rivals" to us.

And there is one more which is kinda cheating:
3. If aliens visit us and they're humans. it's the opposite of number #1 where they come and see us. But then, if they believe in another form of deity, or no deity... then it's kinda touchy. But assuming they also have some Bible-like scripture and worship a God who fits our description of God, then you know, fine.

To prove that God doesn't exist:
It's really just 1 option: We find intelligent life, or intelligent life finds us, and they aren't human. They're completely alien. Then it's all bollocks. Because how could there be an all powerful God who is looking after us, his most dearest creation, and there is also intelligent life somewhere else. Who created it? It's not his image, it's not human. So either they have a God, which would mean that our God is not all powerful and the One True God because lo and behold, there is another Deity that can make life and intelligent life and maybe they believe that they were made in their gods' image.


So what do you think?

EDIT: really. the most fanatical believer you are in the Bible, the more determined you should be to pursue a career that would involve space exploration and science. I mean it. It's YOUR chance to prove that God is real. The odds are in your favor. 3 favorable scenarios to 1.

You're trying to present a logical argument to people who have abandoned all reason and logic in order to cope with their circumstances. It doesn't matter if proof could be found in space or by opening a small box; they would hide that box and be terrified to open it.

For some people the comforting narrative is more important than the harsh truth. They believe because they need to.

RabidAlpaca said:

You're trying to present a logical argument to people who have abandoned all reason and logic in order to cope with their circumstances. It doesn't matter if proof could be found in space or by opening a small box; they would hide that box and be terrified to open it.

For some people the comforting narrative is more important than the harsh truth. They believe because they need to.

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Still. Imagine if 10% more people in the south of the USA which is deeply religious would become scientific literate and engaged in technology and progress. Bam, like, Mars would be an overnight adventure. Everything would chance in the USA.

Or even in Europe. Have 10% more of the rather religious individuals become scientists or innovators or engineers. Instant progress.

I honestly should send this to Bill Nye since he has been drumming in the past year about economics and science and all that.

RabidAlpaca said:

You're trying to present a logical argument to people who have abandoned all reason and logic in order to cope with their circumstances. It doesn't matter if proof could be found in space or by opening a small box; they would hide that box and be terrified to open it.

For some people the comforting narrative is more important than the harsh truth. They believe because they need to.

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I have actually encountered people that thought that they could know.

Rainman05 said:

Still. Imagine if 10% more people in the south of the USA which is deeply religious would become scientific literate and engaged in technology and progress. Bam, like, Mars would be an overnight adventure. Everything would chance in the USA.

Or even in Europe. Have 10% more of the rather religious individuals become scientists or innovators or engineers. Instant progress.

I honestly should send this to Bill Nye since he has been drumming in the past year about economics and science and all that.

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That would require them actually giving a flying rat's ass about the future, which most christians don't. To them, god gave them this world and we could never destroy it, and even if we did, it wouldn't matter because the apocalypse is right around the corner and they're looking forward to it.

While entertaining, your argument will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back and convinces christians to give a **** about science.

I don't see how finding life in other planets - intelligent or not - is a sign of a God (or not).

That's no different than my Mother's logic: "Doubt that God exists? Just look around you. Isn't that proof enough?"

RabidAlpaca said:

That would require them actually giving a flying rat's ass about the future, which most christians don't. To them, god gave them this world and we could never destroy it, and even if we did, it wouldn't matter because the apocalypse is right around the corner and they're looking forward to it.

While entertaining, your argument will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back and convinces christians to give a **** about science.

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Yeah. I mean I know you mean fundamentalists or such christians because that's the same context I'm using too. Not regular people.

Well it might not convince the hard-asses and the old ones, but it may just convince the younger ones. I honestly feel that if public figures would nuance and stylize this argument it could make a difference.

Aunt Spiker said:

I don't see how finding life in other planets - intelligent or not - is a sign of a God (or not).

That's no different than my Mother's logic: "Doubt that God exists? Just look around you. Isn't that proof enough?"

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Lets say that tomorrow we can take a trip around the known universe on all planets. And if the only intelligent life we find is human or human like and they also believe in a God that is very similar to our own... well then that's proof enough. There is no other intelligent life except that which God has created in His image.

1. The faith can be proven based on strictly rational arguments combined with historical arguments.

2. It is against the faith to believe that humans exist who are not descended from Adam and Eve.

Paleocon said:

1. The faith can be proven based on strictly rational arguments combined with historical arguments.

2. It is against the faith to believe that humans exist who are not descended from Adam and Eve.

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When Cain killed his brother Abel he was then banished to go live with "the others" - who, exactly, were those other people? The fact that Adam and Eve were the first people created by god does not mean that no more people were created by god.

Then there is the little matter of Noah and the great flood; after which all other people were killed, thus all current people were descended from only those 8 people (Noah and his family?) on the ark. Much inbreeding occurs in that bible text indeed.

Rainman05 said:

Lets say that tomorrow we can take a trip around the known universe on all planets. And if the only intelligent life we find is human or human like and they also believe in a God that is very similar to our own... well then that's proof enough. There is no other intelligent life except that which God has created in His image.

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Define "human like". Chimpanzees are human like. And if we find something chimpanzee like on another planet, that's going to be enough for those desperate for proof to take as a sign. It's a totally mobile goal post.

If we find evolved life on another planet, reason dictates no act of divine creation is responsible for it happening here.

Paleocon said:

1. The faith can be proven based on strictly rational arguments combined with historical arguments.

2. It is against the faith to believe that humans exist who are not descended from Adam and Eve.

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1. No it can't. There is a lot of gaps not to mention all the **** that exists. Like how Yahwe is a genocidal, infanticidal, racist and pro-slavery god. Not a good curriculum. And also, there is no evidence for a lot of passages from the bible like the fact that the jews were enslaved in egypt or the fact that there was a world wide flood. All wrong.

2. Why can't there be an Adam and Eve on other worlds too? God could have made Adam and Eve elsewhere too. It's not against the faith, it's just saying that other bibles exist on other planets.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Define "human like". Chimpanzees are human like. And if we find something chimpanzee like on another planet, that's going to be enough for those desperate for proof to take as a sign. It's a totally mobile goal post.

If we find evolved life on another planet, reason dictates no act of divine creation is responsible for it happening here.

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I said: neanderthals or any other similar humanoid. Like homo erectus.

Chimpanzees are our cousins but chimpanzees evolved as they are today from a common ancestor that humans and primates had over 2.5mil years ago. But that common ancestor split into 2 lines, one that lead to humans, one that lead to primates as we see them today. So at no point will chimps evolve into humans. It's just not in the evolutionary branch. So no, humanoids. I defined this in one of the posts I made. Read.

Rainman05 said:

1. No it can't. There is a lot of gaps not to mention all the **** that exists. Like how Yahwe is a genocidal, infanticidal, racist and pro-slavery god. Not a good curriculum. And also, there is no evidence for a lot of passages from the bible like the fact that the jews were enslaved in egypt or the fact that there was a world wide flood. All wrong.

2. Why can't there be an Adam and Eve on other worlds too? God could have made Adam and Eve elsewhere too. It's not against the faith, it's just saying that other bibles exist on other planets.

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If we encounter intelligent life that uses language, they will almost certainly have their own creation myths. That's the first step on the path to scientific inquiry. Religious tales are attempts to explain the world around us.

Rainman05 said:

I said: neanderthals or any other similar humanoid. Like homo erectus.

Chimpanzees are our cousins but chimpanzees evolved as they are today from a common ancestor that humans and primates had over 2.5mil years ago. But that common ancestor split into 2 lines, one that lead to humans, one that lead to primates as we see them today. So at no point will chimps evolve into humans. It's just not in the evolutionary branch. So no, humanoids. I defined this in one of the posts I made. Read.

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...but which one of those lines was following God's image? Which evolutionary path did God take?

Always asking the wrong question on this subject.
Just saying there's 'no evidence, hence no god' is not changing anything or exactly a mental feat. Even the Christians know that much.

Assuming there is a God who could easily prove their existence, why doesn't He? Answer that question and you might be on to something. And NO, it's not simply a matter of faith, which is more about trust than belief or proof.

Rainman05 said:

Lets say that tomorrow we can take a trip around the known universe on all planets. And if the only intelligent life we find is human or human like and they also believe in a God that is very similar to our own... well then that's proof enough. There is no other intelligent life except that which God has created in His image.

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There is intelligent human life on this planet that does not believe in your definition of god. /thread

ttwtt78640 said:

When Cain killed his brother Abel he was then banished to go live with "the others" - who, exactly, were those other people? The fact that Adam and Eve were the first people created by god does not mean that no more people were created by god. Then there is the little matter of Noah and the great flood; after which all other people were killed, thus all current people were descended from only those 8 people (Noah and his family?) on the ark. Much inbreeding occurs in that bible text indeed.

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Are you advocating the heresy of polygenism?

Rainman05 said:

1. No it can't. There is a lot of gaps not to mention all the **** that exists. Like how Yahwe is a genocidal, infanticidal, racist and pro-slavery god. Not a good curriculum. And also, there is no evidence for a lot of passages from the bible like the fact that the jews were enslaved in egypt or the fact that there was a world wide flood. All wrong.

2. Why can't there be an Adam and Eve on other worlds too? God could have made Adam and Eve elsewhere too. It's not against the faith, it's just saying that other bibles exist on other planets.

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1. See here: www.debatepolitics.com/religious-discussions/192038-christian-secularists-5.html#post1063196439

2. Because such an idea is nothing but a revival of the antipodean heresy.

ttwtt78640 said:

There is intelligent human life on this planet that does not believe in your definition of god. /thread

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yes but this thread is not for them.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

...but which one of those lines was following God's image? Which evolutionary path did God take?

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....
Really? That's a question? pfft.
I think its pretty self evident that it's us.

Homo habilis, erectus, neanderthals and heidelbergensis and result us -> homo sapiens.

Rainman05 said:

....
Really? That's a question? pfft.
I think its pretty self evident that it's us.

Homo habilis, erectus, neanderthals and heidelbergensis and result us -> homo sapiens.

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That's a bit ethnocentric, don't you think? And that pretty much rules out a similar situation on another planet from a sheer statistical impossibility.

Even if we did find DNA matched humans on another planet, that still doesn't prove the existence of God. What about "ancient aliens"? Panspermia?

Paleocon said:

Are you advocating the heresy of polygenism?



1. See here: www.debatepolitics.com/religious-discussions/192038-christian-secularists-5.html#post1063196439

2. Because such an idea is nothing but a revival of the antipodean heresy.

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I suppose that I am.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

That's a bit ethnocentric, don't you think? And that pretty much rules out a similar situation on another planet from a sheer statistical impossibility.

Even if we did find DNA matched humans on another planet, that still doesn't prove the existence of God. What about "ancient aliens"? Panspermia?

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...

No its not ethnocentric. Because humanity is a species, not an ethnicity. Species = multiple races which each has multiple ethnic groups and each ethnic group has multiple ethnicities.
So it can't be ethnocentric.
Are you sure you're up for this discussion? This is strike 2. Strike 1 was with the stupidity of that question about which branch God picked. 1 more strike and I'm done with you because I don't have time to waste on people who aren't fit for purpose.

For there to be ancient aliens we would have to find ancient alien relics or ancient alien remains. This scenario fits into the final one, the one I said that it would disprove God. read the OP I made carefully because 1 more inane statement and you'll have to find another talking partner because I won't waste more time with you and such low quality comments.

Rainman05 said:

...

No its not ethnocentric. Because humanity is a species, not an ethnicity. Species = multiple races which each has multiple ethnic groups and each ethnic group has multiple ethnicities.
So it can't be ethnocentric.
Are you sure you're up for this discussion? This is strike 2. Strike 1 was with the stupidity of that question about which branch God picked. 1 more strike and I'm done with you because I don't have time to waste on people who aren't fit for purpose.

For there to be ancient aliens we would have to find ancient alien relics or ancient alien remains. This scenario fits into the final one, the one I said that it would disprove God. read the OP I made carefully because 1 more inane statement and you'll have to find another talking partner because I won't waste more time with you and such low quality comments.

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Oh my goodness, I didn't realize I had offended your tender sensibilities.

Intelligent life on other planets does not prove an existent God. Human life on other planets doesn't prove an existent God. If we find another planet in the entire universe that mirrored conditions with Earth, we would likely see something very similar to Earth, just because evolutionary biology follows the same rules of the universe here as anywhere else in this universe. The odds of finding a relatively human-like species is low, seeing as how there are several bipedal primates with varying degrees of cortex development, but the advantages of bipedalism are going to be the same on another very similar planet as they are here. Something approximating mamalia is almost certainly going to be found, given the same conditions and timeline. And nowhere in the chain of biological development is there a noticeable hand of God.

Gonzo Rodeo said:

Oh my goodness, I didn't realize I had offended your tender sensibilities.

Intelligent life on other planets does not prove an existent God. Human life on other planets doesn't prove an existent God. If we find another planet in the entire universe that mirrored conditions with Earth, we would likely see something very similar to Earth, just because evolutionary biology follows the same rules of the universe here as anywhere else in this universe. The odds of finding a relatively human-like species is low, seeing as how there are several bipedal primates with varying degrees of cortex development, but the advantages of bipedalism are going to be the same on another very similar planet as they are here. Something approximating mamalia is almost certainly going to be found, given the same conditions and timeline. And nowhere in the chain of biological development is there a noticeable hand of God.

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The fact that we know there are radical different forms of life on this planet prove that not all evolution follows the same pattern.

We exist because mammals started becoming dominant and they only became dominant because dinos went extinct and they didn't. And then we came around. But we're a mutation that just happened. Bipedalism is not just for mammals you know. There are reptiles that can be bipedal. Dinos were bipedal. Maybe dinos would have evolved bigger brains if they hadn't gotten wiped out... also more complex neural networks. The possibilities are endless. And because the possibility of another HUMAN being existing on another planet is soooo low there must be the hand of God guiding the process.

Which is why I am saying is that if on all the planets we find life, we find humans or hominids in some stage of evolution... it means that there is no other form of intelligent species except humans. in which case, it's a pretty solid case for a God to exist.