• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

What is freedom?

Canell

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,851
Reaction score
1,170
Location
EUSSR
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Seems like an obvious answer, right? I can assure, it's not. :)

So, what do you think freedom is? Can a human be free or it is just an illusion? How do we define freedom?


Is a horse free? Is an ant free? A tree? Is a taxpayer free? A senator? A CEO? A farmer? Etc.

:)
 
Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you, and freedom is the extent to which we can act as we will, without mental/physical restraint.
 
Existence. Beyond that, we can get into the particulars.
 
Existence. Beyond that, we can get into the particulars.

Freedom is existence? :shock:
How would you feel "existing" in a prison cell for a lifetime?
 
Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you, and freedom is the extent to which we can act as we will, without mental/physical restraint.

I would add to that, with the ability to choose or overcome natural consequences.

For example, we have machines which give us the freedom to fly without the consequence of going splat.
 
Freedom is existence? :shock:
How would you feel "existing" in a prison cell for a lifetime?
There's freedom there.

Don't post a ****ty, sub-standard OP, then wait for us to fill in the blanks for you.
 
There's freedom there.

Don't post a ****ty, sub-standard OP, then wait for us to fill in the blanks for you.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, please don't say anything. Participation in this thread is not compulsory. :thanks:
 
If you don't have anything constructive to say, please don't say anything. Participation in this thread is not compulsory. :thanks:
Nor am I obligated to babysit you on an adult debate forum. You're a big boy now.

Your OP is anything but constructive. You should have given your personal definition/s as a prelude to opening discussion. Where you fail to do so, you have no basis for rejection unless everyone responding to the thread is equally unburdened of responsibility. As I said, we're not here to tutor you. Given the complete lack of effort on your part, no response could be irrelevant.

To break it down for you, you're asking what posters believe freedom is. That's it. Nothing more. Where any response is forthcoming, your lack of any qualifiers grants you no right to contest any definition, having failed to offer your own.
 
Nor am I obligated to babysit you on an adult debate forum. You're a big boy now.

Your OP is anything but constructive. You should have given your personal definition/s as a prelude to opening discussion. Where you fail to do so, you have no basis for rejection unless everyone responding to the thread is equally unburdened of responsibility. As I said, we're not here to tutor you. Given the complete lack of effort on your part, no response could be irrelevant.

To break it down for you, you're asking what posters believe freedom is. That's it. Nothing more. Where any response is forthcoming, your lack of any qualifiers grants you no right to contest any definition, having failed to offer your own.

This is pretty much his modus operandi. Here are just three of his recently started threads...see a pattern?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/188223-crimea-parliament-declares-independence-ukraine-ahead-referendum.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/188015-crimea-whats-best-solution.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/187475-should-send-troops-ukraine.html

He has no analysis, no debate, no insight to offer. Let this be an object lesson to all on how NOT to start threads.
 
Your OP is anything but constructive.

It is not. It is asking for opinions not making statements. In this thread I am collecting opinions probably because I don't have the answer to the question. Has that thought ever crossed your mind?
 
This is pretty much his modus operandi. Here are just three of his recently started threads...see a pattern?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/188223-crimea-parliament-declares-independence-ukraine-ahead-referendum.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/188015-crimea-whats-best-solution.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/187475-should-send-troops-ukraine.html

He has no analysis, no debate, no insight to offer. Let this be an object lesson to all on how NOT to start threads.
It wouldn't bother me that all he's doing is essentially talking to himself, but to contest views that couldn't even be opposing (since he offers nothing to begin with) is absurd.
 
It is not. It is asking for opinions not making statements. In this thread I am collecting opinions probably because I don't have the answer to the question. Has that thought ever crossed your mind?
It crossed my mind that you have no credibility.
 
Seems like an obvious answer, right? I can assure, it's not. :)

So, what do you think freedom is? Can a human be free or it is just an illusion? How do we define freedom?


Is a horse free? Is an ant free? A tree? Is a taxpayer free? A senator? A CEO? A farmer? Etc.

:)



I have to say that Kris Kristofferson hit it when he said that Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.

Charles Krauthammer was paralyzed when he was young and was in the midst of gaining his degree in medicine. A diving accident. In his thinking, he knew immediately what had happened and what it meant. He lived, but was paralyzed.

In his typical wry and optimistic view of things, he said that the lack of hope is an empowering thing. This is oddly encouraging.

From the Poem Maud Muller:

"…of all sad words of tongue and pen,
The saddest are these: It might have been."

This poem tells of two people whose lives brush up against each others' and both are swept on to the rest of their lives and both dream of what may have been a better path to take if they had just taken it and not been slaves to their own fears and other's expectations.

I think it was from a Eagles song that the writer said that the chains we apply to ourselves are the most limiting. Could be wrong about it being an Eagles song. Can't even dredge up the quote right now.
 
Even cavemen had rituals one had to follow or risk be whacked on the head. If you die and go to heaven don't you have to follow God's rules? Face it we're screwed from birth, even in the womb we are not free to move about!
 
Once upon a time I thought freedom was easily defined.


Then I discovered that to some people 'Free' means 'someone else pays my way'. :roll:


Fundamentally, freedom is the ability to act with little or no restraint.

Freedom is therefore always relative. This is important; RELATIVE... not absolute.

No one has absolute freedom. You have the freedom to jump off a cliff, but not the freedom to be spared the consequences of acceleration x mass in a gravity field... unless you're attached to a bungee cord, that is. :)


In terms of human society, it is often said that your liberty ends were another person's rights begin. The problem with this is defining what those rights are of course.


In reality, you have the FREEDOM to violate other people's rights... but there will be consequences. They may shoot you. The law may lock you up. Thus you can argue that you DON'T have the freedom to screw with others, but in reality you DO... what you lack is the freedom to do so free from *consequences*, unless you're Superman in a world without Kryptonite.


One theory says that those with more resources (ie wealth) at their disposal are more free than those without, because what they CAN do is a broader set of choices than those of someone who is poor. This is true in a way, but the rich often become slave to their possessions, servant of their portfolio and investments, chained to their properties and employees and lifestyle, in a sense.


"A man is not an island"... we live in a society, not as Robinson Crusoe the lone castaway. Thus we all have limits on our freedom based on the rights and power of the individuals around us and the rules of society as a whole. In other words, it has always been safer to **** with people who have LESS power than you (in whatever sense of power, personal/economic/political/etc), and much more dangerous to do so with equals or superiors.

A well-run society has rules about how you can treat everyone regardless of their personal power, and enforcement/justice/punishment for violating those rules. All such things are constraints against any absolute notion of freedom.



So practically and realistically speaking, understanding that freedom is RELATIVE... how do you measure whether you are free? Well for me I'd start thus:

Am I free to do those things NECESSARY for me to continue to live?
Am I free to do those things IMPORTANT to my life, prosperity and pursuit of happiness?
Am I free to do those things I WANT to do as long as I am not doing harm to others?

The first one needs to be a clear and unmitigated Yes; the second should be largely Yes, but there will be constraints based on the needs of others.

The third one is where things get more complicated, as wants collide with other wants and needs.


A state of total anarchy would be "freedom" in a sense... but it would be a Hobbsian dystopia of force and violence and theft. We are at our most free when we are free to act in our own interests and on our own wants only up to the point of not harming others, because otherwise we must fear our fellow man too much to exercise our freedom easily.


In other words, if I feel that I can do more or less what I want as long as I am not trespassing on someone else's life, liberty, property or needs, then I am about as free as I can reasonably be.


An important caveat is that Freedom is something men concern themselves with only *after* they have food in their belly, shelter from the weather, and some reasonable prospect of living to see the next day. :)
 
Once upon a time I thought freedom was easily defined.


Then I discovered that to some people 'Free' means 'someone else pays my way'. :roll:


Fundamentally, freedom is the ability to act with little or no restraint.

Freedom is therefore always relative. This is important; RELATIVE... not absolute.

No one has absolute freedom. You have the freedom to jump off a cliff, but not the freedom to be spared the consequences of acceleration x mass in a gravity field... unless you're attached to a bungee cord, that is. :)


In terms of human society, it is often said that your liberty ends were another person's rights begin. The problem with this is defining what those rights are of course.


In reality, you have the FREEDOM to violate other people's rights... but there will be consequences. They may shoot you. The law may lock you up. Thus you can argue that you DON'T have the freedom to screw with others, but in reality you DO... what you lack is the freedom to do so free from *consequences*, unless you're Superman in a world without Kryptonite.


One theory says that those with more resources (ie wealth) at their disposal are more free than those without, because what they CAN do is a broader set of choices than those of someone who is poor. This is true in a way, but the rich often become slave to their possessions, servant of their portfolio and investments, chained to their properties and employees and lifestyle, in a sense.


"A man is not an island"... we live in a society, not as Robinson Crusoe the lone castaway. Thus we all have limits on our freedom based on the rights and power of the individuals around us and the rules of society as a whole. In other words, it has always been safer to **** with people who have LESS power than you (in whatever sense of power, personal/economic/political/etc), and much more dangerous to do so with equals or superiors.

A well-run society has rules about how you can treat everyone regardless of their personal power, and enforcement/justice/punishment for violating those rules. All such things are constraints against any absolute notion of freedom.



So practically and realistically speaking, understanding that freedom is RELATIVE... how do you measure whether you are free? Well for me I'd start thus:

Am I free to do those things NECESSARY for me to continue to live?
Am I free to do those things IMPORTANT to my life, prosperity and pursuit of happiness?
Am I free to do those things I WANT to do as long as I am not doing harm to others?

The first one needs to be a clear and unmitigated Yes; the second should be largely Yes, but there will be constraints based on the needs of others.

The third one is where things get more complicated, as wants collide with other wants and needs.


A state of total anarchy would be "freedom" in a sense... but it would be a Hobbsian dystopia of force and violence and theft. We are at our most free when we are free to act in our own interests and on our own wants only up to the point of not harming others, because otherwise we must fear our fellow man too much to exercise our freedom easily.


In other words, if I feel that I can do more or less what I want as long as I am not trespassing on someone else's life, liberty, property or needs, then I am about as free as I can reasonably be.


An important caveat is that Freedom is something men concern themselves with only *after* they have food in their belly, shelter from the weather, and some reasonable prospect of living to see the next day. :)



The Chinese have a saying that expresses this. They say that the when the table is full, there are many problems. When the table is empty, there is one problem.
 
Back
Top Bottom