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Is Christianity under attack in modern America?

Somerville said:
Is Christianity under attack in modern America? OR is the idea just an example of the formerly privileged being unwilling to accept equality for all?

We have politicians and pundits ranting and raving about how Christians can barely speak their mind in public any longer because of ... something or other.

Examples:


Salvation Army Volunteer Using Smaller Bell After Business Owner Complains - Fox Nation should be compared with Woman hits Salvation Army kettle bell-ringer who said 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas' - World Story

Lawsuits across the country complain about nativity scenes on government land. What do you think should a town's response be to such a lawsuit? Is asking a town to remove a nativity scene from government-owned property oppressing Christianity?
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You know what. I had a nice polite a answer that wouldn't really offend anyone written out. It took me about 10 minutes to write. But it didn't accurately portray my feelings. So I deleted it. My new post:

Is it under attack? No. Not really. But that isn't the real issue with this entire bull **** debate that is going on. It is about a lack of respect. And I am not finger pointing. But I am going to start with the non Christian whatever group that is "attacking."

Maybe if you were respectful and were willing to tolerate religious beliefs that were not your own...people might not hate you so much. Maybe if you accepted and did not name call people for thinking differently they wouldn't call you out on your...quite frankly...childish and ****ty behavior.

Now. I am going to address the Christians:

Maybe if you were respectful and were willing to tolerate religious beliefs that were not your own...people might not hate you so much. Maybe if you accepted and did not name call people for thinking differently they wouldn't call you out on your...quite frankly...childish and ****ty behavior.

I am sick of this debate. I'm sick of the lack of respect. All I see are a bunch of disrespectful children hiding behind "free speech" and "free religion" so that they can insult and belittle with impunity. I'm not suggesting we ban them, but i am saying that there are a lot of people...here and in the real world...that deserve a time out from those freedoms till they learn to show a little common courtesy and respect their fellow man.
 
Christianity is NOT under attack. The notion that it is is ridiculous. Chicken Little's running around screaming that it is under attack makes me laugh.
 
stonewall50 said:
You know what. I had a nice polite a answer that wouldn't really offend anyone written out. It took me about 10 minutes to write. But it didn't accurately portray my feelings. So I deleted it. My new post:

Is it under attack? No. Not really. But that isn't the real issue with this entire bull **** debate that is going on. It is about a lack of respect. And I am not finger pointing. But I am going to start with the non Christian whatever group that is "attacking."

Maybe if you were respectful and were willing to tolerate religious beliefs that were not your own...people might not hate you so much. Maybe if you accepted and did not name call people for thinking differently they wouldn't call you out on your...quite frankly...childish and ****ty behavior.

Now. I am going to address the Christians:

Maybe if you were respectful and were willing to tolerate religious beliefs that were not your own...people might not hate you so much. Maybe if you accepted and did not name call people for thinking differently they wouldn't call you out on your...quite frankly...childish and ****ty behavior.

I am sick of this debate. I'm sick of the lack of respect. All I see are a bunch of disrespectful children hiding behind "free speech" and "free religion" so that they can insult and belittle with impunity. I'm not suggesting we ban them, but i am saying that there are a lot of people...here and in the real world...that deserve a time out from those freedoms till they learn to show a little common courtesy and respect their fellow man.
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It's a "lack of respect" when a non-believer asks that his local government not show preference for a specific religious belief? How about it's a "lack of respect" for the Constitution and settled law which states the government(s) of this nation shall not elevate any one religious belief over all other religions.

Asking that a Christian artifact be removed from publicly owned spaces does not mean that same object can't be displayed on private land. Why is it the small towns, where there may be a church within a block or two of the city hall, that show such animosity to these requests? Are they saying that the same object on church property is not visible to the public? OR are they trying to claim that only Christians can place objects on town land?
 
Somerville said:
It's a "lack of respect" when a non-believer asks that his local government not show preference for a specific religious belief? How about it's a "lack of respect" for the Constitution and settled law which states the government(s) of this nation shall not elevate any one religious belief over all other religions.

Asking that a Christian artifact be removed from publicly owned spaces does not mean that same object can't be displayed on private land. Why is it the small towns, where there may be a church within a block or two of the city hall, that show such animosity to these requests? Are they saying that the same object on church property is not visible to the public? OR are they trying to claim that only Christians can place objects on town land?
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You missed the entire point of what I was saying. It has nothing to do with elevating certain beliefs over others. It has to do with being tolerant of other views. And quite frankly I see a lot of people ARE intolerant of Christian views. You can argue against that all you like, but you know damn well it is true.

Just as true is that Christians have shown too much intolerance toward people who do not believe the same thing. So it isn't just one side.

But let's try this out size? How offensive is a Nativity scene? Or a Minora (forgive spelling)? Or any other religious icon (of peace)? Since you don't seem to be the asshole religious type on the one side let me address to you my problem with the "atheist" side.

I am sick. Thoroughly sick, of people in your camp trying to change the constitution to "Freedom FROM religion" rather than OF. Like it or not, not everyone will think like you. And some people will believe in a higher power. And maybe you don't understand, but that power means more to them than the Constitution. That doesn't mean they want to force it on you, but they do want to show it. And maybe if you tolerated it, they might be willing to tolerate whatever the hell you believe. And if they don't? You can show their hypocrisy.

Again. I am pissed at both sides. You all act like children. Intolerant children who believe it can only happen your way and nobody else's. You are so wrapped up in fighting the other side's beliefs that you forgot the most important ****ing part about being an American: tolerance.
 
stonewall50 said:
You missed the entire point of what I was saying. It has nothing to do with elevating certain beliefs over others. It has to do with being tolerant of other views. And quite frankly I see a lot of people ARE intolerant of Christian views. You can argue against that all you like, but you know damn well it is true.

Just as true is that Christians have shown too much intolerance toward people who do not believe the same thing. So it isn't just one side.

But let's try this out size? How offensive is a Nativity scene? Or a Minora (forgive spelling)? Or any other religious icon (of peace)? Since you don't seem to be the asshole religious type on the one side let me address to you my problem with the "atheist" side.

I am sick. Thoroughly sick, of people in your camp trying to change the constitution to "Freedom FROM religion" rather than OF. Like it or not, not everyone will think like you. And some people will believe in a higher power. And maybe you don't understand, but that power means more to them than the Constitution. That doesn't mean they want to force it on you, but they do want to show it. And maybe if you tolerated it, they might be willing to tolerate whatever the hell you believe. And if they don't? You can show their hypocrisy.

Again. I am pissed at both sides. You all act like children. Intolerant children who believe it can only happen your way and nobody else's. You are so wrapped up in fighting the other side's beliefs that you forgot the most important ****ing part about being an American: tolerance.
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as a christian myself it seems your rant and your views are very similar to those you are condemning. What i mean by that it seems you want others to simply share your opinions and thiers dont matter. You calim it to be true/fact id like to see it and see it in a way its an attack on christianity and also no other religions.

Can you give me examples of this factual intolerance that cross the line and becomes just that "intolerance" and not a person expressing their own opinions or practicing their own rights. I am sure there are examples out there i would never say there arent but id also bet the farm, auntie may and the tractor they are common or rampant and dont put christianity under attack.

It seems you are who you are ranting about.
 
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stonewall50 said:
You missed the entire point of what I was saying. It has nothing to do with elevating certain beliefs over others. It has to do with being tolerant of other views. And quite frankly I see a lot of people ARE intolerant of Christian views. You can argue against that all you like, but you know damn well it is true.

Just as true is that Christians have shown too much intolerance toward people who do not believe the same thing. So it isn't just one side.

But let's try this out size? How offensive is a Nativity scene? Or a Minora (forgive spelling)? Or any other religious icon (of peace)? Since you don't seem to be the asshole religious type on the one side let me address to you my problem with the "atheist" side.

I am sick. Thoroughly sick, of people in your camp trying to change the constitution to "Freedom FROM religion" rather than OF. Like it or not, not everyone will think like you. And some people will believe in a higher power. And maybe you don't understand, but that power means more to them than the Constitution. That doesn't mean they want to force it on you, but they do want to show it. And maybe if you tolerated it, they might be willing to tolerate whatever the hell you believe. And if they don't? You can show their hypocrisy.

Again. I am pissed at both sides. You all act like children. Intolerant children who believe it can only happen your way and nobody else's. You are so wrapped up in fighting the other side's beliefs that you forgot the most important ****ing part about being an American: tolerance.
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They are free to display religious tokens, I just don't want to have to pay for it. On their property they may do as they like.
 
American said:
Many of us prefer it, and we have that right.
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You can prefer anything you want but you have no right not to be criticized and you have no right to push your beliefs on others. There is a backlash because Christians have acted so poorly for so many years and far too many Christians think they have a right to continue acting poorly. They do not.
 
What we have going on here is a terrible case of slave morality...
 
Paschendale said:
Christianity is the religion that's oppressing people in this country. Islam is not. No consenting adults in this country is being prevented from marrying because of Islamic beliefs. No child molesters are escaping prosecution because of the influence of an international organization of mosques. No one has ever been considered unpatriotic or not really American by virtue of being Christian. Muslims, Jews, and non-monotheists often have.

It's not a bias or hatred of Christianity or really any different treatment based on which religion is being discussed. It's which religion is in power and causing harm here.
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Nuts.

You don't know what harm is. Harm is the what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah because of its many sins, which included homosexual sin. Harm is 50 million babies butchered in their mother's wombs. Harm is porno-related crime, deficit spending and borrowing that saddles our kids and grandkids with insurmountable debt to repay. Harm is destroying one of the best healthcare systems in the world in favor of Obama's nightmare ACA program.

The violent and decadent society that the liberals so despise is the very one they have created. As one columnist noted, "They wanted sexual promiscuity, drugs, disregard for the law, no censorship of pornography, no laws against sodomy or public profanity, abortion on demand, quick and easy divorces, acceptance of homosexuality, Miranda rights, a welfare system that paid women to have illegitimate children, a tax system that penalizes marriage, and a godless education system that utilizes metal detectors and drug-sniffing dogs in our public schools. And they got it. Every last bit of it."
 
Logicman said:
Nuts.

You don't know what harm is. Harm is the what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah because of its many sins, which included homosexual sin. Harm is 50 million babies butchered in their mother's wombs. Harm is porno-related crime, deficit spending and borrowing that saddles our kids and grandkids with insurmountable debt to repay. Harm is destroying one of the best healthcare systems in the world in favor of Obama's nightmare ACA program.

The violent and decadent society that the liberals so despise is the very one they have created. As one columnist noted, "They wanted sexual promiscuity, drugs, disregard for the law, no censorship of pornography, no laws against sodomy or public profanity, abortion on demand, quick and easy divorces, acceptance of homosexuality, Miranda rights, a welfare system that paid women to have illegitimate children, a tax system that penalizes marriage, and a godless education system that utilizes metal detectors and drug-sniffing dogs in our public schools. And they got it. Every last bit of it."
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you proved his point in your very first sentence 100% right.
not Christianity but people like yourself that USE Christianity for oppression. The funny part is you didnt even realize your very first sentence proved him 100% right.
You think its ok to justify denying people equal rights based on your opinion of Sodom and Gomorrah. You just tried to make a case that youre subjective OPINION of YOUR religion a justified reason to govern others with. Its simply not. Again Christianity is fine, views like yours are not.

being a christian myself i understand the fact that its MY religion and not to be used to oppress others.

Thank you for proving his point
 
AGENT J said:
you proved his point in your very first sentence 100% right.
not Christianity but people like yourself that USE Christianity for oppression. The funny part is you didnt even realize your very first sentence proved him 100% right.
You think its ok to justify denying people equal rights based on your opinion of Sodom and Gomorrah. You just tried to make a case that youre subjective OPINION of YOUR religion a justified reason to govern others with. Its simply not. Again Christianity is fine, views like yours are not.

being a christian myself i understand the fact that its MY religion and not to be used to oppress others.

Thank you for proving his point
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The Holy Bible - the Word of God - proves you both wrong.

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - Jude 7

Have you never read the founding fathers?

Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence who was also known as the “Father of Public Schools,” once had this to offer: “The only foundation for a republic is…religion. Without it there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty.”

Don’t miss the significance of that last statement: “..without virtue there can be no liberty….” The principle is clear – a lack of virtue engenders bondage. As one writer noted, “Intemperate men can never be free because their passions give rise to their fetters (bindings).” The more liberties a godless people achieve, the more enslaved they ultimately become in their worldly obsessions.

Still another founding father, the Reverend John Witherspoon, mirrored Benjamin Rush when he declared, “…Civil liberty cannot long be preserved without virtue….” (righterreport.com)

Don't defend bondage to sin.

And if you don't like my views, as you said above, then don't read my posts, because my views on these issues are not going to change.
 
Logicman said:
1.)The Holy Bible - the Word of God - proves you both wrong.

2.)"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - Jude 7
3.)Have you never read the founding fathers?

Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence who was also known as the “Father of Public Schools,” once had this to offer: “The only foundation for a republic is…religion. Without it there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty.”

Don’t miss the significance of that last statement: “..without virtue there can be no liberty….” The principle is clear – a lack of virtue engenders bondage. As one writer noted, “Intemperate men can never be free because their passions give rise to their fetters (bindings).” The more liberties a godless people achieve, the more enslaved they ultimately become in their worldly obsessions.

Still another founding father, the Reverend John Witherspoon, mirrored Benjamin Rush when he declared, “…Civil liberty cannot long be preserved without virtue….” (righterreport.com)

Don't defend bondage to sin.

And if you don't like my views, as you said above, then don't read my posts, because my views on these issues are not going to change.
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1.) nope theres nothing in the bible about this topic, i read it a couple times so you are factually wrong
2.) meaningless to the topic but further proves the other poster right about views like yours
3.) sure have and your subjective opinion of this is also meaningless but again proves the other poster right
4.) your views are fine its how you want to oppress others and deny them thier rights

also i have no interest in changing your oppressive views you are free to keep them, we just wont allow them to deny others rights


thank you again for proving that other poster right and yourself wrong. Make another post how you think YOUR subjective opinions on YOUR religion is justification to rule and oppress others with, it only further proves that other poster more right. Your views are a PERFECT example of oppression.

like i said Christianity is fine oppression is not, luckily many Christians like myself dont share your views.
 
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Logicman said:
The Holy Bible - the Word of God - proves you both wrong.

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - Jude 7

Have you never read the founding fathers?

Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence who was also known as the “Father of Public Schools,” once had this to offer: “The only foundation for a republic is…religion. Without it there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty.”

Don’t miss the significance of that last statement: “..without virtue there can be no liberty….” The principle is clear – a lack of virtue engenders bondage. As one writer noted, “Intemperate men can never be free because their passions give rise to their fetters (bindings).” The more liberties a godless people achieve, the more enslaved they ultimately become in their worldly obsessions.

Still another founding father, the Reverend John Witherspoon, mirrored Benjamin Rush when he declared, “…Civil liberty cannot long be preserved without virtue….” (righterreport.com)

Don't defend bondage to sin.

And if you don't like my views, as you said above, then don't read my posts, because my views on these issues are not going to change.
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The greatest harm is a religious fanatic that thinks their religion justifies them making and enforcing laws based on their sky god book.
 
I think it is fairly obvious who is at war here.
 
There is massive persecution of Christians around the world. Many are beaten, abused, murdered and legally discriminated against. What happens in America doesn't compare and much of the world turns a blind eye to this.

However, there is an attack on Christianity in America and I think it's largely fueled by politics and a rejection/animosity towards mainstream evangelical Christian morals. Society doesn't like the idea of sexual ethics, proper marriages and families or the idea of an eternal hell or even personal accountability for sins. We all want to believe that we are "good people" and that there is no higher set of morals to live by apart from what we want to do and what is comfortable. Try going through life as a social conservative with media upholding one side of views and bashing/judging you harshly. Try not having sex before marriage and living a sexually ethical life, people will laugh at you, reject you, judge you and reject what you stand for because they simply don't want to be around people that have such morals even if they aren't pushy. Try having people tell you to essentially sit down and shut up when it comes to political issues like SSM and abortion, as if you as a citizen have no right to vote or have your beliefs put into law or even respected as you are compared to racists and whatnot. There is a cultural attack on Christianity, you don't see songs pushing a Christian message winning "best social message of the year award." Instead that award goes to songs that actually bash church and support homosexuality. You don't see Christian ethics in the media, you see an oversexualized culture that glorifies divorce, drug use and other such things. The values of Christianity, and the message that Christ is the Son of God is attacked and rejected by culture and has become much more mainstream and acceptable to do.
 
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TheNextEra said:
The greatest harm is a religious fanatic that thinks their religion justifies them making and enforcing laws based on their sky god book.
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Ha! Christianity has been the predominate religion in America since the days of the founding fathers, and the only thing that's really brought America to its knees is radical left liberalism and the abrogation of the teachings of Christ.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) nope theres nothing in the bible about this topic, i read it a couple times so you are factually wrong
2.) meaningless to the topic but further proves the other poster right about views like yours
3.) sure have and your subjective opinion of this is also meaningless but again proves the other poster right
4.) your views are fine its how you want to oppress others and deny them thier rights

also i have no interest in changing your oppressive views you are free to keep them, we just wont allow them to deny others rights


thank you again for proving that other poster right and yourself wrong. Make another post how you think YOUR subjective opinions on YOUR religion is justification to rule and oppress others with, it only further proves that other poster more right. Your views are a PERFECT example of oppression.

like i said Christianity is fine oppression is not, luckily many Christians like myself dont share your views.
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Not buying your politically-correct Bible revisionism, Agent J. I'll stick with what I posted in my post #'s 60 and 62.
 
Logicman said:
1.)Not buying your politically-correct Bible revisionism, Agent J.
2.) I'll stick with what I posted in my previous two links.
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1.)im not selling anything just discussing facts that prove what the other poster was saying
2.) you are free to do so, in fact please do because its factual prove that the previous poster was right

hank you again for proving that other poster right and yourself wrong.
Fact remains Christianity is fine people using it to oppress is not, Christianity itslef isnt under attack at all
 
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stonewall50 said:
You know what. I had a nice polite a answer that wouldn't really offend anyone written out. It took me about 10 minutes to write. But it didn't accurately portray my feelings. So I deleted it. My new post:

Is it under attack? No. Not really. But that isn't the real issue with this entire bull **** debate that is going on. It is about a lack of respect. And I am not finger pointing. But I am going to start with the non Christian whatever group that is "attacking."

Maybe if you were respectful and were willing to tolerate religious beliefs that were not your own...people might not hate you so much. Maybe if you accepted and did not name call people for thinking differently they wouldn't call you out on your...quite frankly...childish and ****ty behavior.

Now. I am going to address the Christians:

Maybe if you were respectful and were willing to tolerate religious beliefs that were not your own...people might not hate you so much. Maybe if you accepted and did not name call people for thinking differently they wouldn't call you out on your...quite frankly...childish and ****ty behavior.

I am sick of this debate. I'm sick of the lack of respect. All I see are a bunch of disrespectful children hiding behind "free speech" and "free religion" so that they can insult and belittle with impunity. I'm not suggesting we ban them, but i am saying that there are a lot of people...here and in the real world...that deserve a time out from those freedoms till they learn to show a little common courtesy and respect their fellow man.
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:thumbs: Outstanding post!
 
AGENT J said:
hank you again for proving that other poster right and yourself wrong.
Fact remains Christianity is fine people using it to oppress is not, Christianity itslef isnt under attack at all
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I told you I'm not buying what you're posting about that.
 
Logicman said:
I told you I'm not buying what you're posting about that.
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you dont have to buy it, FACTS and your very own post prove it :shrug:
let us know when you can change those FACTS
 
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