The search for the meaning of life.....

I've been into Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" series for quite some time now.... He explains in these books that I am perfect just the way I am - since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn/say/do. All I have to do is "just be and enjoy life."

Thus, my thoughts on this are:

1) I am perfect just the way I am.

2) Since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn - that includes searching for the meaning of life.

3) Life = a force (or intent, as explained in Ruiz's books). I am that force, therefore I am life itself. Since I am life itself, the search for the meaning of life ends with me. I need to look no further than in the mirror and I will know the meaning of life.

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Nightrider said:

I've been into Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" series for quite some time now.... He explains in these books that I am perfect just the way I am - since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn/say/do. All I have to do is "just be and enjoy life."

Thus, my thoughts on this are:

1) I am perfect just the way I am.

2) Since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn - that includes searching for the meaning of life.

3) Life = a force (or intent, as explained in Ruiz's books). I am that force, therefore I am life itself. Since I am life itself, the search for the meaning of life ends with me. I need to look no further than in the mirror and I will know the meaning of life.

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I think a state of being content is the best state of 'happiness' in life. I don't think that your title fits the observation in the OP.

SBu said:

Interesting. I think a state of being content is the best state of 'happiness' in life. I don't think that your title fits the observation in the OP.

Click to expand...

This is what I'm saying:

1) We already know everything we need to know when we are born into this world - about happiness and contentment and what is the meaning of life, etc. We are TAUGHT through authority figures (read: LIED to) that we need to become something we are not - in order to find meaning in life, that is...

2) Thus, my title fits perfectly, since all I'm saying is that the search for life's meaning is futile (you could even say it's a journey undertaken by ignoramuses and idiots who've been indoctrinated to believe that they are less than perfect just the way they are and have much to learn/do/say to achieve happiness in life)...

Nightrider said:

This is what I'm saying:

1) We already know everything we need to know when we are born into this world - about happiness and contentment and what is the meaning of life, etc. We are TAUGHT through authority figures (read: LIED to) that we need to become something we are not - in order to find meaning in life, that is...

2) Thus, my title fits perfectly, since all I'm saying is that the search for life's meaning is futile (you could even say it's a journey undertaken by ignoramuses and idiots who've been indoctrinated to believe that they are less than perfect just the way they are and have much to learn/do/say to achieve happiness in life)...

Click to expand...

I think that this philosophy is a more belligerent philosophy already pioneered by Taoism and Buddhism in a much more healthy way. I would agree that searching for the meaning of life is futile, but searching for inner peace and stability is divine.

SBu said:

I think that this philosophy is a more belligerent philosophy already pioneered by Taoism and Buddhism in a much more healthy way. I would agree that searching for the meaning of life is futile, but searching for inner peace and stability is divine.

Click to expand...

I like your comment - I would just like to add that there are other religions that honor Ruiz's teachings (and vice versa)..... Having said that - yes, his teachings are very Buddhist (Taoism, I do not know much about)....

The search itself is a delusion, but apparently a necessary one for many to realize their true nature.

"Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not be convinced that effort will take you nowhere. The self is so self-confident that unless it is totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal conviction is not enough. Hard facts alone can show the absolute nothingness of the self-image." -Nisargadatta

Click to expand...

Only self seeks meaning because beyond self there is nothing to grasp.

Nightrider said:

I've been into Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" series for quite some time now.... He explains in these books that I am perfect just the way I am - since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn/say/do. All I have to do is "just be and enjoy life."

Thus, my thoughts on this are:

1) I am perfect just the way I am.

2) Since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn - that includes searching for the meaning of life.

3) Life = a force (or intent, as explained in Ruiz's books). I am that force, therefore I am life itself. Since I am life itself, the search for the meaning of life ends with me. I need to look no further than in the mirror and I will know the meaning of life.

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

Seems to me, there's no way to tell. So you can spend a lot of time thinking about it and if you get points for time spent and a good yarn, you win.

The meaning of life is growth and self-improvement-- cultivation. Any philosophy that starts with the assumption we're perfect-- or that anything can be perfect-- is fatally flawed.

Nightrider said:

I've been into Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" series for quite some time now.... He explains in these books that I am perfect just the way I am - since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn/say/do. All I have to do is "just be and enjoy life."

Thus, my thoughts on this are:

1) I am perfect just the way I am.

2) Since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn - that includes searching for the meaning of life.

3) Life = a force (or intent, as explained in Ruiz's books). I am that force, therefore I am life itself. Since I am life itself, the search for the meaning of life ends with me. I need to look no further than in the mirror and I will know the meaning of life.

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

I think the meaning of life is to spend it the way you want to spend it with the people you want to be with. Being content and happy should be the primary goal. As I'm starting to get older I'm starting to care a lot less what other people think and have started just enjoying being me. Obviously this has to be balanced with your ambition to accomplish whatever it is you want to do, but being content along the way is key.

Korimyr the Rat said:

The meaning of life is growth and self-improvement-- cultivation. Any philosophy that starts with the assumption we're perfect-- or that anything can be perfect-- is fatally flawed.

Click to expand...

That's fine - Ruiz's books are actually 'bout growth and self-improvement (they are, technically, self help books)...... What he describes is more of an UNLEARNING process - clearing our minds of all the lies we've been taught and getting back to a childlike love of life and living in the now (like when we were kids)... As far as perfection, let me 'splain a little bout that one:

The four agreements go as follows:

1) Be impeccable with your word: Don't gossip or speak ill of thy neighbor (it goes hand in hand with loving thy neighbor as thyself, like the bible says)... Speak with integrity and say only what you mean - use the power of your word (thy tongue) only in the direction of truth and love, never to slander or hate....

2) Don't take anything personally: Nothing anyone says or does is because of me - that includes compliments and insults given to me (I already know who/what I am - I don't need anyone to tell me). When I don't take anything personally, I become immune to the poison spread by others - the black magicians that walk this Earth (they are legion in numbers, these black magicians).... Just take a look around - when someone tells me that I will go to Hell, because I don't do as they say, that person is lying. We are already there - if you look at planet Earth from a purely observational point of view, what do you see? A planet filled with anger, revenge, addictions, violence, wars, terrorism, etc. What Ruiz is saying is that IF one honors the four agreements (especially the two I've listed) perfectly, one will not only achieve perfection (but will attain a dream of Heaven, in the midst of Hell)....

3) Don't make assumptions 'bout anything, unless you already know it to be true.

4) Always do your best to honor these agreements.

Now - back to perfection vs. imperfection. I look at it this way (which is more or less what Ruiz teaches): I am God, you are God, we are God - everything and everyone around me is God - we are all dreaming and everything is consciousness unfolding (I dream with the brain asleep and I dream when I am awake - I just perceive things in a linear fashion when awake).... Anyway, since everything around me is God - when I criticize you, others, or even myself, I am criticizing God and saying that I know better than God - that false assumption is enough to put me back in Hell. It is then me whom has the problem, not the ones I'm criticizing - that is why it's important to be impeccable with my word.

I'll give you an example of why it's important to me to live Ruiz's philosophy and get to the crux of the matter - Hitler is arguably the greatest "black magician" in History. He manipulated a whole nation, just by using his tongue - AND he nearly conquered the world..... That is why it's important to honor the four agreements, specially the part about being impeccable with our word - use our tongue in the direction of truth and love, instead of bitterness and hate.... That is the basis of Ruiz's philosophy - nothing more or less. Happiness comes from me loving you and others - NOT from being loved. Where is the flaw in that?

RabidAlpaca said:

I think the meaning of life is to spend it the way you want to spend it with the people you want to be with. Being content and happy should be the primary goal. As I'm starting to get older I'm starting to care a lot less what other people think and have started just enjoying being me. Obviously this has to be balanced with your ambition to accomplish whatever it is you want to do, but being content along the way is key.

Click to expand...

Well put, RA - and I can definitely relate to the getting older part, lol.... What was important even last year is becoming less and less important as time goes on - spending time with my 7 year old niece, for instance, trumps winning the lottery any day.... After all, if I was to win the lotto, I would probably just donate the money - I simply don't need the kinds of problems and media attention that winning the lottery would bring....

Anyway, it definitely is the little/simpler stuff that brings a simile to my face nowadays - I could care less 'bout what I see happening on the news (read: thinking bout the world's problems), as well. It is simply too damn depressing - to remain uplifted and optimistic these days, I'd rather read a good book or put together a puzzle with friends/family.

Savoring the little things, in other words, is what makes life priceless and brings true meaning, imho...

My belief, which is certainly not unique to me, but rather based on Sartre's existentialism, is that the "meaning" of life is descriptive, rather than prescriptive. Meaning is purely subjective. There is no objective meaning to life; we create our own meaning - "existence precedes essence," as Sartre uttered. Meaning is not given; it must be achieved.

So, you learned about this?

Nightrider said:

I've been into Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" series for quite some time now.... He explains in these books that I am perfect just the way I am - since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn/say/do. All I have to do is "just be and enjoy life."

Thus, my thoughts on this are:

1) I am perfect just the way I am.

2) Since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn - that includes searching for the meaning of life.

3) Life = a force (or intent, as explained in Ruiz's books). I am that force, therefore I am life itself. Since I am life itself, the search for the meaning of life ends with me. I need to look no further than in the mirror and I will know the meaning of life.

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

If you have the conscience God gave you, it will testify that you and the rest of us are not perfect.

Logicman said:

If you have the conscience God gave you, it will testify that you and the rest of us are not perfect.

Click to expand...

I think you are completely misunderstanding AND misrepresenting what I said - as well as Ruiz's philosophy.

Just remember one thing: Humans are the only creature on Earth whom pay more than once for every mistake we make - that's where your "conscience" comes into play. Every time we remember, we judge ourselves one more time and find ourselves guilty yet again.... Is that fair? True justice is paying only ONCE - all the other species of animals out there get this (I suggest you read Ruiz's books - he makes all this stuff clear)....

I for one have declared "war" on the judge/parasite within - that critic inside me. I have become a pro at this and know how to tell that critic to f off - "demolish" it, in other words. AND I'm not the first one to come up with this concept - contemporary psychologists have been using this type of EMDR stuff for years....

I suggest you educate yourself a little more and come back at me when you're done - thanks.

Nightrider said:

I think you are completely misunderstanding AND misrepresenting what I said - as well as Ruiz's philosophy.

Just remember one thing: Humans are the only creature on Earth whom pay more than once for every mistake we make - that's where your "conscience" comes into play. Every time we remember, we judge ourselves one more time and find ourselves guilty yet again.... Is that fair? True justice is paying only ONCE - all the other species of animals out there get this (I suggest you read Ruiz's books - he makes all this stuff clear)....

I for one have declared "war" on the judge/parasite within - that critic inside me. I have become a pro at this and know how to tell that critic to f off - "demolish" it, in other words. AND I'm not the first one to come up with this concept - contemporary psychologists have been using this type of EMDR stuff for years....

I suggest you educate yourself a little more and come back at me when you're done - thanks.

Click to expand...

Tsk tsk...

You're still going to have your conscience to convict you of your sins until you receive Christ as your Lord and Savior for the remission of your sins. So, you can try to live with it and wrestle with it and suffer with it and whine about it until the cows come home, or you can receive Christ to wash away the guilt.

Receive the wisdom of God and become enlightened in his Word.

Nightrider said:

I've been into Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" series for quite some time now.... He explains in these books that I am perfect just the way I am - since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn/say/do. All I have to do is "just be and enjoy life."

Thus, my thoughts on this are:

1) I am perfect just the way I am.

2) Since I am perfect just the way I am, there is nothing more to learn - that includes searching for the meaning of life.

3) Life = a force (or intent, as explained in Ruiz's books). I am that force, therefore I am life itself. Since I am life itself, the search for the meaning of life ends with me. I need to look no further than in the mirror and I will know the meaning of life.

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

I'm not worried about the meaning of life. I just live it the best I can. I enjoy the good and curse the bad although I continually try to make the bad better. My goal is when I leave this world, that for some it will be a better place or at least not a worse place. Life is simple, you are born, you live and then you die. Does there really have to be some grand meaning?

Logicman said:

Tsk tsk...

You're still going to have your conscience to convict you of your sins until you receive Christ as your Lord and Savior for the remission of your sins. So, you can try to live with it and wrestle with it and suffer with it and whine about it until the cows come home, or you can receive Christ to wash away the guilt.

Receive the wisdom of God and become enlightened in his Word.

Click to expand...

Let me just ask you - what type of God do you believe in? Where is Jesus to be found? How do you know that Christianity is right?

I come from a very Christian family (in fact, I have ancestors - all of them pastors - going back 250 years in my family) - trust me, if you look at my family, some of the most spiritual ones are the ones (imo, anyway) whom are borderline atheists and don't go to church at all.... I just know for a fact that my grandfather (a famous New England pastor, whom once had dinner with JFK), was not a happy man.... So, since it is happiness I ultimately crave (and peace of mind, to boot) - how do I find that happiness in the church, when I look around at the modern church and all I see are a bunch of mindless hypocrites?

Perotista said:

I'm not worried about the meaning of life. I just live it the best I can. I enjoy the good and curse the bad although I continually try to make the bad better. My goal is when I leave this world, that for some it will be a better place or at least not a worse place. Life is simple, you are born, you live and then you die. Does there really have to be some grand meaning?

Click to expand...

Honestly? No, I don't think so - and you make excellent points (which is to take the good with the bad and try to make the bad better), specially bout leaving the world a better place when you leave, than it was before you came in..... I agree with that 100%.

Look, y'all, I do go to church - I do agree with some of what I hear in sermons (like, love thy neighbor as thyself, for instance).... However (that being said), I mainly go to network with others - the social aspect, in other words. Just wanted to clear that up - I'm no atheist or even an agnostic. If anything, I'm a deist - and I use Ruiz's philosophy to find meaning in a world that (to me) is basically meaningless....

Nightrider said:

Honestly? No, I don't think so - and you make excellent points (which is to take the good with the bad and try to make the bad better), specially bout leaving the world a better place when you leave, than it was before you came in..... I agree with that 100%.

Click to expand...

Thank you. I do think that is the bottom line, leaving this world a little better off than it was when you first arrived.

Nightrider said:

Let me just ask you - what type of God do you believe in? Where is Jesus to be found? How do you know that Christianity is right?

Click to expand...

The historical Gospel accounts, plus fulfilled Messianic prophecies (in Matthew, for instance), plus various epistles, plus extra-biblical accounts all testify about him. Plus God has blessed me with his indwelling Holy Spirit.

Nightrider said:

I come from a very Christian family (in fact, I have ancestors - all of them pastors - going back 250 years in my family) - trust me, if you look at my family, some of the most spiritual ones are the ones (imo, anyway) whom are borderline atheists and don't go to church at all.... I just know for a fact that my grandfather (a famous New England pastor, whom once had dinner with JFK), was not a happy man.... So, since it is happiness I ultimately crave (and peace of mind, to boot) - how do I find that happiness in the church, when I look around at the modern church and all I see are a bunch of mindless hypocrites?

Click to expand...

You're overreacting. I know tons of happy Christians. I'm one of them. So is my nephew, so is my sister and many others. I've known men and women who cleaned up slop and vomit at rescue mission who wouldn't change what they're doing for anything. They're happy in the service of the Lord.

Jesus said there would be hypocrites and wolves in sheep's clothing. The tares are mixed in with the wheat.

And what better place for hypocrites to learn from the errors of their ways except in fellowship with others who were once like them?

Someone once said, "If you ever find a perfect church, don't join it, because you'll screw it up."

Logicman said:

The historical Gospel accounts, plus fulfilled Messianic prophecies (in Matthew, for instance), plus various epistles, plus extra-biblical accounts all testify about him. Plus God has blessed me with his indwelling Holy Spirit.



You're overreacting. I know tons of happy Christians. I'm one of them. So is my nephew, so is my sister and many others. I've known men and women who cleaned up slop and vomit at rescue mission who wouldn't change what they're doing for anything. They're happy in the service of the Lord.

Jesus said there would be hypocrites and wolves in sheep's clothing. The tares are mixed in with the wheat.

And what better place for hypocrites to learn from the errors of their ways except in fellowship with others who were once like them?

Someone once said, "If you ever find a perfect church, don't join it, because you'll screw it up."

Click to expand...

OK - I will talk to my pastor. However, I'm really going to be honest with him and not pf around - and I don't see how he can help, but I promise I'll talk to him.

Seems like quite a few here in this forum have good intentions, because they think they know something. Just remember, what you know is your experience the summation of events you experienced good and bad that bring you to the conclusions you hold now. The things that work for you now are valid and good, because they work. But change is inevitable, for as long as we live. Here's hopin that your changes are more evolutionary, than revolutionary.

Nightrider said:

4) This is contrary to what is taught in many college philosophy courses - we are taught (many of us) that the meaning of life involves a search (a looking outward, upon worldly ideals, if you will). However, it has been my experience that Ruiz is correct and what many of us are taught in philosophy class is a fallacy.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the information. I've seen a couple of his books on the shelf, and thought I might find them interesting, but just haven't bought one to find out. They do sound like something that I would enjoy reading, just for a different point of view. I probably have a few ideas in common with him, but am always interested to see what someone else's take on the subject is.