Jahi McMath To be Removed from Life Support

SheWolf said:

Its pretty bad that the nurses didn't seem aware of the urgency of the situation. They didn't know if her bleeding was normal or not?

I don't know much about medicine or this type of stuff, but that would make me wonder if they didn't properly respond to the situation.

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My wife suspects that there is more to this story but that the hospital cannot tell its side due to patient privacy issues. Nothing adds up, and we're getting only one side of the story right now.

nota bene said:

The main reason she had the surgery was because of her sleep apnea. I'd never heard of taking the tonsils out for this reason or because of urination issues, but that's what I read.

Edit: "Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.

'They said that she would have more energy, focus more, lose weight, and the urinating would stop,' he said."

Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after surgery - CNN.com

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Exactly. Hence my post 51. We're getting only the family's side of the story, and it doesn't add up.

tonsillectomy to lose weight... Then everybody will want one.

I have heard of it to treat sleep apena before, but none of the other stuff.

nota bene said:

The main reason she had the surgery was because of her sleep apnea. I'd never heard of taking the tonsils out for this reason or because of urination issues, but that's what I read.

Edit: "Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.

'They said that she would have more energy, focus more, lose weight, and the urinating would stop,' he said."

Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after surgery - CNN.com

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SheWolf said:

Its pretty bad that the nurses didn't seem aware of the urgency of the situation. They didn't know if her bleeding was normal or not?
I don't know much about medicine or this type of stuff, but that would make me wonder if they didn't properly respond to the situation.

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When you're bleeding post-op from a tonsillectomy, I would suspect that much of the blood is being swallowed, just due to the location of the tonsils. She apparently was spitting out some of it, but probably not enough to be concerned. I would think that what sounded the alarm was a loss of blood pressure, and an increased heart rate. If she was in an ICU at the time, then that would have easily been caught, but on a regular med-surg unit, it would not have, because monitoring isn't constant.

lizzie said:

If you have to go back to surgery, it's always serious. It's difficult to say why some bleed more than others. It could be as simple as diet or medications they take. It could also be some type of bleeding disorder which has not yet been diagnosed. It's also possible that the surgeon didn't cauterize well enough, or that there was a small artery or arteriole nicked, which wasn't seen during the surgery itself.

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Lizzie, I thought it took several minutes, like 15 or 20 in a near death situation to actually become brain dead...How could this happen so quickly?

Didn't Jahi have to have transfusions?

Update from CNN:

A deadline loomed Monday as a judge had said the hospital could disconnect the machines after 5 p.m. (8 p.m. ET). But shortly before Jahi could have been cut off, that same judge extended his order to 5 p.m. (8 p.m. ET) on January 7. Court blocks hospital from disconnecting Jahi McMath from life support - CNN.com

Juanita said:

Lizzie, I thought it took several minutes, like 15 or 20 in a near death situation to actually become brain dead...How could this happen so quickly?

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If the brain is not sufficiently oxygenated (via blood supply), brain damage starts within 4-5 minutes, and the process of resuscitation usually doesn't provide enough oxygenation to slow it down, except in unusual circumstances. In this case, assuming she was bleeding heavily, the blood was not in circulation, but was in her gastrointestinal tract.

lizzie said:

If the brain is not sufficiently oxygenated (via blood supply), brain damage starts within 4-5 minutes, and the process of resuscitation usually doesn't provide enough oxygenation to slow it down, except in unusual circumstances. In this case, assuming she was bleeding heavily, the blood was not in circulation, but was in her gastrointestinal tract.

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Thanks Lizzie, I didn't realize that..So sad for the family....

The notion that ones body can be a living organism, and yet one be dead, is absurd. If her body temperature is sufficient for her body to function, then at least part of her brain is working. Therefore, morally it should be the parents' call.

What would a "death panel" decide? Someone needs to make a rational decision.

AliHajiSheik said:

What would a "death panel" decide? Someone needs to make a rational decision.

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There have been hospital ethics committees for decades now, their creation sparked by the Karen Ann Quinlan case.

Children's Hospital Oakland's position is that Jahi is already dead. A court-ordered expert has agreed. From the La Times for your consideration:

With the clock winding down on a court order keeping 13-year-old Jahi McMath on a ventilator, medical ethicists say the public drama over the brain-dead girl has fueled a misconception that her condition is somehow treatable.

Multiple doctors, including a Stanford neurologist, have concluded that Jahi is brain-dead -- the result of complications from having her tonsils removed at Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland early this month. But her parents have fought to keep her on a ventilator, telling reporters they believe "there's still life there."

Arthur Caplan, director of the Division of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center, told CNN last week that the case is "giving the impression that dead people can come back to life."

That, in turn, has fueled the falsehood that brain death isn't as final as cardiac death.

Jahi McMath is brain dead; hopes for life are futile, experts say - latimes.com

joko104 said:

Yes, it is time for medicare/caid to stop providing oxygen to those with OCPD. And no more damn iron lungs for polio victims. Hospitals shouldn't even have ventilators to begin with. All of that costs a bunch of money.

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Stupid argument is stupid: she's brain dead, not receiving care for a chronic and debilitating disease.

rocket88 said:

I think that's what it comes down to at this point. There's a lawsuit brewing, and we can't just get rid of the evidence. I can see the logic in that.

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The hospital has been pushing to release the medical records. The family has resisted such requests ...

Dr. Chuckles said:

The hospital has been pushing to release the medical records. The family has resisted such requests ...

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Yes, from the beginning, the hospital pretty much begged the family to be HIPAA-free. Eventually, as this will surely result in some sort of suit, the facts will come out. But one fact is that multiple medical experts are in agreement: Jahi McMath is already dead.

What I find particularly interesting in this case is the frank language. I don't recall reading statements as frank as this: "“I think they have to be adamant that they will not begin any new technology on a corpse" (Arthur Caplan, Director of the Division of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center). Clock ticks in Jahi McMath case; experts say court clash went too far - latimes.com