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Evidence for the Bible / God [W536; 634]

Logicman

Logicman

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Evidence for the Bible / God

Critics claim there is no evidence for God or the Bible / New Testament. Many scholars have been refuting that idea for centuries, noting archaeological evidence, fulfilled Messianic prophecies, and so on.

This thread is for debate on those issues.

p.s. This thread is being created again because we can't argue for the existence or non-existence of God in the religion forum. Here in the philosophy forum we can.
 
No defining evidence exists for either the existence or non-existence of God.

/thread
 
There is no evidence there was ever a specific person, Jesus, who was any different than any of the other claimed messiahs/magicmen/shaman/evangelists of the day, or that there is anything at all unique about the story of Jesus when compared to previously believed in half god half man myths.
 
Logicman said:
The following shows there is evidence.

Mathematical Probability that Jesus is the Christ
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Probabilities?

That's like the stuff my sister was going on about yesterday - how someone used existing star-tracking software to go back in time and look at the different sky anomalies and events that took place around the supposed time of Jesus' birth - and thus giving proof that the story is true.

You can't base facts on probabilities. By their very nature, it's just a way to try to understand the possibilities, it's not undeniable proof.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Probabilities?

That's like the stuff my sister was going on about yesterday - how someone used existing star-tracking software to go back in time and look at the different sky anomalies and events that took place around the supposed time of Jesus' birth - and thus giving proof that the story is true.

You can't base facts on probabilities. By their very nature, it's just a way to try to understand the possibilities, it's not undeniable proof.
Click to expand...

You can win a lot of money when the odds are way in your favor. So there is something compelling about it.
 
Logicman said:
You can win a lot of money when the odds are way in your favor. So there is something compelling about it.
Click to expand...

That just gives support to my overall view on religion and it's real purpose in life. . . that doesn't bolster the argument that God exists because the probability is somewhat high.
 
Logicman said:
Evidence for the Bible / God

Critics claim there is no evidence for ...
Click to expand...

There is no evidence for any claim of any god that ever existed in the history of human societies. Therefore no gods exist.

It's as simple as that.
 
St. Thomas Aquinas proved the existence of God beyond any and all reasonable doubt. With the light of faith God's existence is absolutely certain.
 
Paleocon said:
St. Thomas Aquinas proved the existence of God beyond any and all reasonable doubt. With the light of faith God's existence is absolutely certain.
Click to expand...

Only for the uneducated and the religious. No one else.
 
Paleocon said:
Aquinas was highly educated. What problems are there with his proof(s)?
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It's false. There's no proof of any god, any time during human civilization. That much is true and incontrovertible.
 
Paralogic said:
It's false. There's no proof of any god, any time during human civilization. That much is true and incontrovertible.
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I don't think any theist or atheist claims that it is possible to irrefutably prove or disprove a God.
 
reidster said:
I don't think any theist or atheist claims that it is possible to irrefutably prove or disprove a God.
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Yes. Any one can claim that there is no god, just by refuting any unsubstantiated claim that there is one.

There are no 3-headed-yellow-mini-horses flying around everyone's head telling them what to do either. Such a claim is not possible to be proven, it's unsubstantiated, therefore it's false by definition.

Same thing with any claims about any gods ever, in any human society that ever lived, from tree spirits in the African jungles, to any deities in the Asian continents, to any gods in the current abrahamic religions.... no gods exist because no gods would ever be possible to be proven to exist.

It's so simple.
 
No, you're confusing "proof" with "evidence". There is plenty of evidence for both.

Vodon said:
No defining evidence exists for either the existence or non-existence of God.

/thread
Click to expand...
 
Paralogic said:
Yes. Any one can claim that there is no god, just by refuting any unsubstantiated claim that there is one.

There are no 3-headed-yellow-mini-horses flying around everyone's head telling them what to do either. Such a claim is not possible to be proven, it's unsubstantiated, therefore it's false by definition.

Same thing with any claims about any gods ever, in any human society that ever lived, from tree spirits in the African jungles, to any deities in the Asian continents, to any gods in the current abrahamic religions.... no gods exist because no gods would ever be possible to be proven to exist.

It's so simple.
Click to expand...

I said irrefutably. You cannot prove that God does not exist.
 
reidster said:
I said irrefutably. You cannot prove that God does not exist.
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I just did.

It's up to YOU to prove that anything you claim exists IRREFUTABLY. If you can't then nothing you claim does not exist IRREFUTABLY too.

It's so simple.
 
Paralogic said:
I just did.

It's up to YOU to prove that anything you claim exists IRREFUTABLY. If you can't then nothing you claim does not exist IRREFUTABLY too.

It's so simple.
Click to expand...

How? I don't believe what you understand what I mean when I say prove. Prove or disprove are absolutes. There is no way you can prove a negative. This is why theism and atheism are rooted in belief or the absence of belief...
 
The Jewish Messiah was prophesied to be God - ancient Jewish rabbis confirm.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (JEHOVAH) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jeremiah 23:5-6)

Perhaps most explicitly of all is the statement found in R. Simeon b. Yochai's comments on the Zohar,

"There is a perfect Man, who is an Angel. This Angel is Metatron, the Keeper of Israel; He is a man in the image of the Holy One, blessed be He, who is an Emanation from Him; yea, He is Jehovah; of Him cannot be said, He is created, formed or made; but He is the Emanation from God. This agrees exactly with what is written, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Of jmx dwd, David's Branch, that though He shall be a perfect man, yet He is ‘The Lord our Righteousness.’

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God
 
Logicman said:
The Jewish Messiah was prophesied to be God - ancient Jewish rabbis confirm.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (JEHOVAH) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jeremiah 23:5-6)

Perhaps most explicitly of all is the statement found in R. Simeon b. Yochai's comments on the Zohar,

"There is a perfect Man, who is an Angel. This Angel is Metatron, the Keeper of Israel; He is a man in the image of the Holy One, blessed be He, who is an Emanation from Him; yea, He is Jehovah; of Him cannot be said, He is created, formed or made; but He is the Emanation from God. This agrees exactly with what is written, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Of jmx dwd, David's Branch, that though He shall be a perfect man, yet He is ‘The Lord our Righteousness.’

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God
Click to expand...

So what? What about all the prophecies that didn't come true that never got included in the bible?

Heck, if I were writing a holy book, I could say that someone had a prophecy and then write a story to say it happened.

I want double blind studies, lab tested miracles, etc...

Saying the bible is true because the bible says it is true is madness.

706px-Creationistlogic0.jpg
 
beefheart said:
I want double blind studies, lab tested miracles, etc...
Click to expand...

Show me your criteria for scientifically verifying the resurrection?

If you can't (and you can't) then get a new dog.
 
Logicman said:
Show me your criteria for scientifically verifying the resurrection?

If you can't (and you can't) then get a new dog.
Click to expand...

Sure, have your god come back and submit to some lab studies at Stanford or Johns Hopkins, kill him by crucifixion and have him come back to life after being dead for 72+ hours. I want scans, MRI, blood work, endocrine, etc.

Shouldn't be too hard, being the supreme being and all, and look....he will have proved himself, and the entire planet can all live in peace, isn't that what god wants?
 
beefheart said:
Sure, have your god come back and submit to some lab studies at Stanford or Johns Hopkins, kill him by crucifixion and have him come back to life after being dead for 72+ hours. I want scans, MRI, blood work, endocrine, etc.

Shouldn't be too hard, being the supreme being and all, and look....he will have proved himself, and the entire planet can all live in peace, isn't that what god wants?
Click to expand...

You can't replicate historical events from 2,000 years ago. You don't know what the conditions actually were back then. And that's why you can't try to recreate them now.
 
reidster said:
There is no way you can prove a negative.
Click to expand...

So, if a random idiot claims that 3 invisible yellow butterflies fly around every one's head directing them what to do, I can't prove a negative because I can't prove that there are *NO* 3 invisible yellow butterflies flying around every one's head directing them what to do... to you????

That's just wrong.

That's why all religion is false, by definition. And it has something to say about the stupid, too.
 
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