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Is it Racist to say hat John Henry was Black?

Is it Racist to say hat John Henry was Black?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • No.

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • I have no idea who John Henry was, but no!

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • I have no idea who John Henry was, but yes!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes! The legendary figures of minorities are sacrosanct!

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • No! "Good for the goose, game for the gander." Let the revision thrive!

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Oftencold, you are a terrible person to ask questions like these and make us think!

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • I have no opinion, but wish to exercise my legal right to express it.

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Total voters
    12
Oftencold

Oftencold

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
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Location
A small village in Alaska
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Recently, hyper-emotional people around the ****ry have had one of their period snits, this time, because someone in the Media pointed out that Santa Clause is white.

Santa, like John Henry, is a mythical figure based on a historical person.

So, by the "reasoning" of the people so affronted by a white Santa, is it now socially acceptable to depict John Henry, not as a black man, but as for instance, an Asiatic Woman? How about a white "transgendered" person who can't correctly match their gender to their physique? If so, how would you deal with any objection from Black Americans to this alteration of what has traditionally been the preeminent mythical and legendary figure of America's Black Community?

(For Bonus points, write a brief explanation of why or why not it is acceptable to depict Paul Bunyon as an Arab Green peace Activist, Johnny Appleseed as a Japanese Bonsai artist, and Yankee Doodle as a Native American British Loyalist.
 
I dont think it matters if you point out someone or some mythical character is of a certain race or not. What makes such things racist is WHY you pointed out they were of a certain race.
 
You mean like pictures of Jesus as a black man?
 
I think that pointing out that John Herry's hat is black is a very racist thing to do. Everyone knows that Herry's hat was white!!
 
mak2 said:
I dont think it matters if you point out someone or some mythical character is of a certain race or not. What makes such things racist is WHY you pointed out they were of a certain race.
Click to expand...

So we all have a right to access to everyone else's thoughts?

If I said, "John Henry was black," at almost any other time since the legend was born, I doubt anyone would have questioned me. Now however, are we to assume that I have some social obligation to explain that statement? Or would we be wiser to simply accept that I stated something accepted, established, based in history and common sense, an that rational adults ought to have other things to occupy their public lives that to have strong feelings about such a statement? Also, might it be a mark of good manners if nothing else, to respect that the people who created and promoted the legend, should be respected by leaving the depictions of the character as they intended?
 
DDD said:
I think that pointing out that John Herry's hat is black is a very racist thing to do. Everyone knows that Herry's hat was white!!
Click to expand...

This brings to mind the old philosophical conundrum: "when two smart asses pull in different directions, which way does the cart move?"
 
Sometimes peoples motivations are obvious. As was the case with the OP.
Oftencold said:
So we all have a right to access to everyone else's thoughts?

If I said, "John Henry was black," at almost any other time since the legend was born, I doubt anyone would have questioned me. Now however, are we to assume that I have some social obligation to explain that statement? Or would we be wiser to simply accept that I stated something accepted, established, based in history and common sense, an that rational adults ought to have other things to occupy their public lives that to have strong feelings about such a statement? Also, might it be a mark of good manners if nothing else, to respect that the people who created and promoted the legend, should be respected by leaving the depictions of the character as they intended?
Click to expand...
 
I don't understand why anyone could fail to understand this:


mak2 said:
I dont think it matters if you point out someone or some mythical character is of a certain race or not. What makes such things racist is WHY you pointed out they were of a certain race.
Click to expand...


That's it. Thread over. The OP can consider himself enlightened.
 
Like most folklore figures (myths, legends) there is often at least a loose basis on an actual living person (history), in this case a black, prison gang, railroad worker in West Virginia. The idea that folks can now change the racial/ethnic atributes of these mythical figures to fit their own version of "mythstory" is silly, as it implies that actual history never happened.
 
ecofarm said:
I don't understand why anyone could fail to understand this:





That's it. Thread over. The OP can consider himself enlightened.
Click to expand...

What? No more black history month? ;)
 
Interestingly, some historical figures acquire such a mythical status that they kind of become myth. For example, there are people who don't realize that Jimi Hendrix was black. I've heard tell of some civil rights leaders who didn't know that John Brown was actually white until they reached adulthood.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. If black people take their kids to a black Santa, how in the hell does that affect your life?
 
mak2 said:
I dont think it matters if you point out someone or some mythical character is of a certain race or not. What makes such things racist is WHY you pointed out they were of a certain race.
Click to expand...

While what you say is obviously true, it does seem racial (if not actually racist), and extremely anally retentive, that altering the race of a legend to make them more acceptable to yourself is required. For a white/asian person to be "like Mike" one must attain great basketball skills (and wear the correct brand of sports gear?), it does not require that one alter alter the race of Michael Jordan (or themselves) to do so. To be "like John Henry" one has to be able outwork a machine, not to become black or have John William Henry become white/asian.
 
this is just CON crap trying to muddy the waters and provide cover for a FAUX Noise 'reporter' who constantly shovels BS.

John Henry, Johnny Appleseed, Paul Bunyan are all 125% American figures.... as much as some in this country want to lay claim to everything, Santa came to America from overseas.

Now I recall an old book I read about Santa Claus which was written right before WWII. Before PC and before CONs gaveachit... There was a black Santa in Africa, a chinese one for China, a british one, a dutch one, a russian one, all different and with varying customs.

Now it seems CONs are hyper sensitive about race and demand we all toe their concepts.

But I remember back in the day when every region and most nations had a different version of Santa Claus and white folks in this country didn't seem to care.

Ah the good ol' days....

Perhaps it is time to remember the reason for the season and shut this sort of silly CON crap down for a few days.... :2wave:
 
Is the spirit of Santa Claus and Christmas white? How could this possibly matter to anyone? I cant imagine anyone who really was in the Christmas spirit wanting to lay claim to Santa and telling "them" people to stay away. It dont seem right.

To be very honest about this, I was raised by people that are Fox's base, I am surrounded by them and know many of them well enough know, she was playing up the race thing because her base need to hear Santa was really white. I am not sure how but it all ties in with the war on Christmas...
ttwtt78640 said:
While what you say is obviously true, it does seem racial (if not actually racist) and extremely anally retentive that altering the race of a legend to make them more acceptable to yourself is required. For a white/asian person to be "like Mike" one must attain great basketball skills (and wear the correct brand of sports gear?), it does not require that one alter alter the race of Michael Jordan (or themselves) to do so. To be "like John Henry" one has to be able outwork a machine, not to become black or have John William Henry become white/asian.
Click to expand...
 
Oftencold said:
Recently, hyper-emotional people around the ****ry have had one of their period snits, this time, because someone in the Media pointed out that Santa Clause is white.
Click to expand...
Actually, the hyper-emotional reaction came from a person who disagreed that Santa could be black. In other words, it was the person defending the idea of Santa being white which was hyper-emotional.

I guess the question becomes why are some people so hyper-emotional that a fictional good guy be white, especially when the real life person he's supposedly based off of likely was not?
 
rocket88 said:
History is fine. Imaginary people don't count.
Click to expand...

Often imaginary people/beasts have a basis in history and are derived from actual historical/animal figures. To assert that a unicorn is really a cross between a hamster and a narwhal is just as inaccurate as to say that John William Henry was a short asian fellow. Just as finding a mamoth skull (yet being unaware of animals with trunks) may lead one to assert that it was really from a cyclops - a one-eyed, giant humanoid.
 
mak2 said:
Is the spirit of Santa Claus and Christmas white? How could this possibly matter to anyone? I cant imagine anyone who really was in the Christmas spirit wanting to lay claim to Santa and telling "them" people to stay away. It dont seem right.

To be very honest about this, I was raised by people that are Fox's base, I am surrounded by them and know many of them well enough know, she was playing up the race thing because her base need to hear Santa was really white. I am not sure how but it all ties in with the war on Christmas...
Click to expand...

Santa is white for the same reason that smurfs are blue - that is how they were created. Can a black/asian person portray santa? Of course they can. Can a white/asian be "like Mike"? Of course they can (try). It is interesting that santa smurf is blue. ;)

image.jpg
 
I can honestly think of only one reason anyone would point out Santa is white. If you are a smurf I dont mind if you want Santa to be blue, more power to you. And Merry Christmas.
 
Oftencold said:
Recently, hyper-emotional people around the ****ry have had one of their period snits, this time, because someone in the Media pointed out that Santa Clause is white.

Santa, like John Henry, is a mythical figure based on a historical person.

So, by the "reasoning" of the people so affronted by a white Santa, is it now socially acceptable to depict John Henry, not as a black man, but as for instance, an Asiatic Woman? How about a white "transgendered" person who can't correctly match their gender to their physique? If so, how would you deal with any objection from Black Americans to this alteration of what has traditionally been the preeminent mythical and legendary figure of America's Black Community?

(For Bonus points, write a brief explanation of why or why not it is acceptable to depict Paul Bunyon as an Arab Green peace Activist, Johnny Appleseed as a Japanese Bonsai artist, and Yankee Doodle as a Native American British Loyalist.
Click to expand...

May I call the Grinch green?
 
mak2 said:
I can honestly think of only one reason anyone would point out Santa is white. If you are a smurf I dont mind if you want Santa to be blue, more power to you. And Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...

Blue with rosy cheeks? Gee, I don't know.
 
joG said:
May I call the Grinch green?
Click to expand...

If you want to risk the consequences!

Remember, we're living an a time when calling a kid a boy just because he has a penis makes us horrible, bigots trapped in outmoded gender reality -- uh, I mean "roles."
 
mak2 said:
Sometimes peoples motivations are obvious. As was the case with the OP.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the motivations one thinks that they see, exist only in one's own mind too.

Besides, it's an old rhetorical trick to state to an audience that this or that is "obvious." It's used to retard independent thinking of any depth.

Carry on.
 
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