Would You Turn Your Back On Your Religkion To Save The Lives Of Your Family?

Hamster Buddha said:

After careful consideration, I decided that I wouldn't even lie about that. I would not disavow my faith. It might be cold to you, my God is the most important person in my life. You don't have to understand, just accept it as is.

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Seems to me pride overtaketh common sense. To each his own.

Hamster Buddha said:

After careful consideration, I decided that I wouldn't even lie about that. I would not disavow my faith. It might be cold to you, my God is the most important person in my life. You don't have to understand, just accept it as is.

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Sure, I get it. After Columbine there was a miniature martyrdom for that young lady that refused to stay silent about being a Christian. Unfortunately she was killed because of it.

That being said, I have less respect for my fellow man, so I am willing to be deceitful.

Fiddytree said:

Sure, I get it. After Columbine there was a miniature martyrdom for that young lady that refused to stay silent about being a Christian. Unfortunately she was killed because of it.

That being said, I have less respect for my fellow man, so I am willing to be deceitful.

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When death isn't considered the end all be all, but a new beginning, you begin to look at death with less .... finality.

sangha said:

There are historical examples of government forcing conversions under threat of familicide

Forced conversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Largely beginning with Cromwell millions of people in Ireland were murdered or later starved to death because they refused to renounce Catholicism.

The first 3 centuries of christian's wern't willing to lie .... they were killed for refusing to put some powder on a fire, or for saying cesar is lord or anything like that, they could have done it and lived ... they didn't and we're killed in a brutal way.

So no I would not.

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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I would not renounce my faith.



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Daniel 3
The Message (MSG)
Four Men in the Furnace

3 1-3 King Nebuchadnezzar built a gold statue, ninety feet high and nine feet thick. He set it up on the Dura plain in the province of Babylon. He then ordered all the important leaders in the province, everybody who was anybody, to the dedication ceremony of the statue. They all came for the dedication, all the important people, and took their places before the statue that Nebuchadnezzar had erected.

4-6 A herald then proclaimed in a loud voice: “Attention, everyone! Every race, color, and creed, listen! When you hear the band strike up—all the trumpets and trombones, the tubas and baritones, the drums and cymbals—fall to your knees and worship the gold statue that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. Anyone who does not kneel and worship shall be thrown immediately into a roaring furnace.”

7 The band started to play, a huge band equipped with all the musical instruments of Babylon, and everyone—every race, color, and creed—fell to their knees and worshiped the gold statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

8-12 Just then, some Babylonian fortunetellers stepped up and accused the Jews. They said to King Nebuchadnezzar, “Long live the king! You gave strict orders, O king, that when the big band started playing, everyone had to fall to their knees and worship the gold statue, and whoever did not go to their knees and worship it had to be pitched into a roaring furnace. Well, there are some Jews here—Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego—whom you have placed in high positions in the province of Babylon. These men are ignoring you, O king. They don’t respect your gods and they won’t worship the gold statue you set up.”

13-15 Furious, King Nebuchadnezzar ordered Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to be brought in. When the men were brought in, Nebuchadnezzar asked, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, that you don’t respect my gods and refuse to worship the gold statue that I have set up? I’m giving you a second chance—but from now on, when the big band strikes up you must go to your knees and worship the statue I have made. If you don’t worship it, you will be pitched into a roaring furnace, no questions asked. Who is the god who can rescue you from my power?”

16-18 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered King Nebuchadnezzar, “Your threat means nothing to us. If you throw us in the fire, the God we serve can rescue us from your roaring furnace and anything else you might cook up, O king. But even if he doesn’t, it wouldn’t make a bit of difference, O king. We still wouldn’t serve your gods or worship the gold statue you set up.”

19-23 Nebuchadnezzar, his face purple with anger, cut off Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. He ordered the furnace fired up seven times hotter than usual. He ordered some strong men from the army to tie them up, hands and feet, and throw them into the roaring furnace. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, bound hand and foot, fully dressed from head to toe, were pitched into the roaring fire. Because the king was in such a hurry and the furnace was so hot, flames from the furnace killed the men who carried Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to it, while the fire raged around Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

24 Suddenly King Nebuchadnezzar jumped up in alarm and said, “Didn’t we throw three men, bound hand and foot, into the fire?”

“That’s right, O king,” they said.

25 “But look!” he said. “I see four men, walking around freely in the fire, completely unharmed! And the fourth man looks like a son of the gods!”

26 Nebuchadnezzar went to the door of the roaring furnace and called in, “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the High God, come out here!”

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walked out of the fire.

27 All the important people, the government leaders and king’s counselors, gathered around to examine them and discovered that the fire hadn’t so much as touched the three men—not a hair singed, not a scorch mark on their clothes, not even the smell of fire on them!

28 Nebuchadnezzar said, “Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego! He sent his angel and rescued his servants who trusted in him! They ignored the king’s orders and laid their bodies on the line rather than serve or worship any god but their own.

29 “Therefore I issue this decree: Anyone anywhere, of any race, color, or creed, who says anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego will be ripped to pieces, limb from limb, and their houses torn down. There has never been a god who can pull off a rescue like this.”

30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the province of Babylon.

Jayhawker30 said:

Matthew 10:37 - "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Matthew 19:29 - "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred-fold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

Mark 10:29/30 - "There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

Granted, these might have only been meant for the disciples, but...

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Ideally, you and your family would be good little martyrs willing to die, testifying for what you believe. However, I also believe that God would be understanding of how someone might renounce him, at least temporarily, under such circumstances as the OP describes.

At the end of day, Christians simply are not specifically called upon to be martyrs. If your renunciation is ultimately nothing more than empty words, rather than the true intentions of your heart, you can always be forgiven for it.

joG said:

You could renounce Atheism.

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You cannot renounce something you do not have, but you could claim to be something you weren't, i.e. a Muslim, Christian, Shinto, or whatever. Eiither way, the result is the same, but since I attach no importance to any religion, it would be easy for me to say anything you want to hear.

americanwoman said:

What if you're an atheist and there is nothing to renounce?

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You could renounce atheism and be forced to embrace (INSERT ANY RELIGION).

To someone who genuinely believes in something, it's not possible to simply abandon it or stop believing. Human beings simply cannot do that kind of thing.

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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Do you still beat your wife every day or just on the drunken weekends? Same type of question.

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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I'm reminded of a documentary that I have watched, called Fires of Faith, about the struggles, political intrigue, and other issues that surrounded the creation of an English-language version of the Holy Bible.

Alas, the details elude me at this point, but at least one historical person was depicted as having, under prosecution for “heresy”, signed a statement repenting of and renouncing his alleged “heresy”, in order to escape being executed. From that point in his life, he was shown as being very regretful at having signed that statement, which he knew to be a lie. His conscience forced him, ultimately, to return to preaching that which had been deemed “heresy”, and to him being arrested, tried, and put to death. He accepted that fate, having decided that it was better to die for the truth than to live for a lie.

Likewise, I could not, myself, ever “forever renounce [my] faith in all religion”. Under the immediate threat to my own life, or that of my family and loved ones, I'd probably say anything then and there; but in the long run, if I survived, my conscience would ultimately force me to return to the truth, deeply remorseful for any lies that I may have allowed to be coerced from me.

Quag said:

Only you wouldn't be actually renouncing it just pretending to save your family. The only reason I can see that anyone would refuse to renounce their faith in this scenario is if their personal pride is greater than their love for their family

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What does personal pride have to do with it?

No, I would not recant my faith. At least I would pray to be given the strength not to. The "...and lead us not into temptation" from the the Lord's Prayer actually means "...and subject us not to the trial." I hope that I never will be.

But, really, this is just another silly, speculative thread. Yes, you might have to make a "Sophie's Choice" or some other hideous choice some day...but what are the odds? Instead of fretting about what is extraordinarily unlikely, why not live each day in confidence and trust?

nota bene said:

What does personal pride have to do with it?

No, I would not recant my faith. At least I would pray to be given the strength not to. The "...and lead us not into temptation" from the the Lord's Prayer actually means "...and subject us not to the trial." I hope that I never will be.

But, really, this is just another silly, speculative thread. Yes, you might have to make a "Sophie's Choice" or some other hideous choice some day...but what are the odds? Instead of fretting about what is extraordinarily unlikely, why not live each day in confidence and trust?

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To allow your family to be killed because you refuse to say a few silly words that you do not mean is pride. However yes it is speculative and the odds are pretty much non existent.

To some, renouncing your faith could mean eternal damnation for you and your family. To some, the afterlife is far more important than their mortal lives.

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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Given the parameters of the OP, the following responses are just plain ignorant.


The OP is not asking about simply “saying a few silly words” to save one's family. It's asking about forever renouncing one's faith—which is something completely and totally different. To forever renounce one's faith does not mean to simply speak some words denying that faith, in order to satisfy the demands of criminals who are otherwise threatening one's family with harm; it means to turn away from that faith and to never return to it.

Bob Blaylock said:

Given the parameters of the OP, the following responses are just plain ignorant.

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The OP is not asking about simply “saying a few silly words” to save one's family. It's asking about forever renouncing one's faith—which is something completely and totally different. To forever renounce one's faith does not mean to simply speak some words denying that faith, in order to satisfy the demands of criminals who are otherwise threatening one's family with harm; it means to turn away from that faith and to never return to it.

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No one can ever truly know what is in your heart so the only thing the people threating your family with can only be what you tell them so of course you tell them what you want to hear then get the hell out of their grasp as soon as you are able. If you truly renounce your faith then you never had any

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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If I had a religion, yes I would, especially since down through history, such ultimatums are given by the religious.

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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Faith in religion? Faith is trust. I don't trust any religion or any atheist enough to have absolute faith in them.

I would walk away from my religion hell I have done it more than once. Nothing could make me renounce my faith. I don't think it's possible to make me stop trusting God.

Of course not. Only a coward would do such a terrible thing.

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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No.


123456

rhinefire said:

Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?

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I'm an apatheist, so even moreso than any atheist I have nothing to renounce.

That said, if in fact I were religiously inclined, of course I would renounce it in exchange for my family's safety. There is literally nothing I would not to do secure their safety and health; I'm a father, and that's my job.

Goshin said:

No.


123456

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You would let your only son die for your faith?

As for certain comments regarding the OP as silly and speculative-- in your own not-so-humble opinion is it. People have been faced with these decisions before, and it can certainly happen again. The odds may not be great in America, but it does happen regularly in other places.

My opinion: There's no chance I would let my family die for a belief. No chance.

Alyssa said:

You would let your only son die for your faith?

As for certain comments regarding the OP as silly and speculative-- in your own not-so-humble opinion is it. People have been faced with these decisions before, and it can certainly happen again. The odds may not be great in America, but it does happen regularly in other places.

My opinion: There's no chance I would let my family die for a belief. No chance.

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My son would understand, and would know that I would expect him to do likewise if it were reversed, and why. Ultimately, because this life is not all there is, and there are things more important than life. It used to be a lot more common for people to feel that way about quite a few things.


With that said, the scenario is almost ludicrously improbable, except perhaps in the Middle East. Furthermore, it is more likely we would both have died fighting, without giving the hypothetical murderous oppressor an opportunity to engage in this cartoon-villainy-exercise.

Goshin said:

My son would understand, and would know that I would expect him to do likewise if it were reversed, and why. Ultimately, because this life is not all there is, and there are things more important than life. It used to be a lot more common for people to feel that way about quite a few things.


With that said, the scenario is almost ludicrously improbable, except perhaps in the Middle East. Furthermore, it is more likely we would both have died fighting, without giving the hypothetical murderous oppressor an opportunity to engage in this cartoon-villainy-exercise.

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ok. To each his or her own, i guess.