• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

10 billion potentially habitable planets in Milky Way

Peter Grimm said:
You want to make this about religion then let me turn it around on you.

Your article states there are 10 billion potentially habitable planets, yet no alien intelligent life has ever tried to contact us.

That might suggest that the evolution of an intelligent lifeform is something that occurs very, very rarely, if at all, even when the right conditions exist. What does that say about the validity of the theory of evolution?

10 billion lab experiments and zero repeatable results.

Here are the facts, right now we believe there are 10 billion potentially habitable planets in our galaxy, and we know of only one intelligent lifeform.... ourselves.
Click to expand...

For all you know, there could be an extraterrestrial Dianne Fossey or Jane Goodall watching us right now.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You want to make this about religion then let me turn it around on you.

Your article states there are 10 billion potentially habitable planets, yet no alien intelligent life has ever tried to contact us.

That might suggest that the evolution of an intelligent lifeform is something that occurs very, very rarely, if at all, even when the right conditions exist. What does that say about the validity of the theory of evolution?

10 billion lab experiments and zero repeatable results.

Here are the facts, right now we believe there are 10 billion potentially habitable planets in our galaxy, and we know of only one intelligent lifeform.... ourselves.
Click to expand...

It might also suggestion that the distances are so vast between us and advanced aliens that they haven't found us yet, or that by the time they get here we'll have already been long gone. The reason why Star Trek and Star Wars work is because they regularly break the light speed barrier.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I believe in a literal interpretation of the bible and i see no reason why finding earth-like planets in the Milky Way contradicts that belief in any way.
Click to expand...

It doesn't contradict Mormon belief either.
 
joG said:
If we want humanity to get there, we had better start now. Or should we wait for a breakthrough technology?
Click to expand...

There is a problem in this regard though....

For instance, say we wanted to send a manned mission to Alpha centuri, assuming we had "cryo-tubes" and we could power and direct the craft. With current technology it would take between 40,0000 & 100,000 years to travel the 4.3 light years. So 500 years later humanity discovers how to travel close to the speed of light, say 1/2 light speed or so. Another mission is launched that will take 9 years to reach the star, overtaking the mission that left 500 years earlier within just a few weeks. This is a large factor and obstacle in the proposed idea of interstellar travel and is one of the main reasons why we wont be getting out of the solar system probably anytime soon. But then who knows what the future and technology will bring. Currently, we are struggling to get back off the Earth. Lets get to Mars then we can think about larger steps.

To get a general idea of scale. If Earth were a grain of sand, then Alpha Centuri would be 6 miles away... 25.6 Trillion miles...
 
Dragonfly said:
One in five Milky Way stars hosts potentially life-friendly Earths: study



So that's just our own galaxy, and that's assuming we are correct in assuming what lifeforms outside our knowledge-base might need as the basic building blocks for life.

So how is it that some people still want to insist that Earth is the only place in the entire universe that has any kind of life on it?

How is it that some people cling to the idea that God created us - but nothing else - anywhere else?????

Or that perhaps other gods didn't "experiment" with their own planets in some other galaxy????

How can we be arrogant enough to think we're a very special exception to the rest of the universe?
Click to expand...

Who says this sillyness?

Who says this is the only universe, that it isn't but one in a myriad of multi-verses? and how would this negate God in any way? It wouldn't.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I believe in a literal interpretation of the bible and i see no reason why finding earth-like planets in the Milky Way contradicts that belief in any way.
Click to expand...

The bible contains nothing of significance pertaining to the real world. Science rules today. The bible ruled in days of darkness smothered when ignorance was bliss. Man is given a mind to think and question and reason. We do not see anyone rising from the dead, walking on water and curing leprosy with the wave of a hand therefore they do not exist. The Bible shuns questioning and reasoning. It like and dictator says to believe or burn in hell. It should be put in it's place with the rest of the fables written thousands of years ago. No single book in the history of man is responsible for more deaths and suffering than the bible.
 
Hdreamz said:
There is a problem in this regard though....

For instance, say we wanted to send a manned mission to Alpha centuri, assuming we had "cryo-tubes" and we could power and direct the craft. With current technology it would take between 40,0000 & 100,000 years to travel the 4.3 light years. So 500 years later humanity discovers how to travel close to the speed of light, say 1/2 light speed or so. Another mission is launched that will take 9 years to reach the star, overtaking the mission that left 500 years earlier within just a few weeks. This is a large factor and obstacle in the proposed idea of interstellar travel and is one of the main reasons why we wont be getting out of the solar system probably anytime soon. But then who knows what the future and technology will bring. Currently, we are struggling to get back off the Earth. Lets get to Mars then we can think about larger steps.

To get a general idea of scale. If Earth were a grain of sand, then Alpha Centuri would be 6 miles away... 25.6 Trillion miles...
Click to expand...

So it is back to the books & microscope?
 
joG said:
So it is back to the books & microscope?
Click to expand...

Definitely back to the books. We can start exploring the inner solar system though, and i really hope that the proposed Mars Mission happens. We have been dormant in our exploration since 1972 and though we have progressed and learnt alot in the last 40 years back on Earth.. We are ready i think for a little bit of Science fiction to become scientific reality.
 
Hdreamz said:
Definitely back to the books. We can start exploring the inner solar system though, and i really hope that the proposed Mars Mission happens. We have been dormant in our exploration since 1972 and though we have progressed and learnt alot in the last 40 years back on Earth.. We are ready i think for a little bit of Science fiction to become scientific reality.
Click to expand...

Do a little Dune?
 
joG said:
Do a little Dune?
Click to expand...

If the Russians want to be House Harkonnen then im in... I suppose Mars could be Arakis, not sure there is much spice there though.
 
Hdreamz said:
Definitely back to the books. We can start exploring the inner solar system though, and i really hope that the proposed Mars Mission happens. We have been dormant in our exploration since 1972 and though we have progressed and learnt alot in the last 40 years back on Earth.. We are ready i think for a little bit of Science fiction to become scientific reality.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely no reason for a manned Mars mission. We cannot live there, and no hope of any significant colonization. We can learn just as much from unmanned exploration. Want to do something significant? Start building a real in-space colony. Our own worldlet in space. No terraforming required. Unlike our home world we'd know exactly how every system worked because we'd have built them ourselves. And most importantly, we could get the gravity right.
 
Peter Grimm said:
I believe in a literal interpretation of the bible and i see no reason why finding earth-like planets in the Milky Way contradicts that belief in any way.
Click to expand...

Then there ought to be at least one suitable planet that liberals could live on. :mrgreen:
 
clownboy said:
There is absolutely no reason for a manned Mars mission. We cannot live there, and no hope of any significant colonization. We can learn just as much from unmanned exploration. Want to do something significant? Start building a real in-space colony. Our own worldlet in space. No terraforming required. Unlike our home world we'd know exactly how every system worked because we'd have built them ourselves. And most importantly, we could get the gravity right.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree, to say their is no point in going to Mars contadicts every fibre of my being both scientifically and exploratory. I can understand your arguments and the focus toward spacial colonies is a valid one, just one i dont agree with. We dont know for sure what's there and we could survive on Mars quite well, obviously within a protected environment. We have not yet as a species set foot on another world, the moon was just that... our moon. The expansion of our horizons does nothing but open new opportunities and possibilities. I didnt want to sound too cheesy but inevitably its happened.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I always cringe when these dumb ass scientist send capsules into space telling all about earth and its inhabitants. Why advertise yourself before you know who and what is out there. Somebody may come do to us what Europeans did to the native Americans.
Click to expand...

There is a distinct possibility of that. Of course there are a number of physics constraints that would have to be worked out. Constraints at least as far as the physics that we currently understand. I may very well be that this 'other' intelligent life has a different / better understanding of physics and isn't constrained in the same way that we presently are.

TheNextEra said:
And there used to be this huge blue thing called an ocean between continents that prevented people from going from one continent to another.

I guess Christopher Columbus should have said "**** it, it's just to damn far".
Click to expand...

True, but we'd better invent / discover / side step some of the physics constraints that we currently operate under. Otherwise it'd take a generational ship with flawless technologies, and I've never put much stock in those ever coming into being.

Dittohead not! said:
Could it be that the destiny of mankind is to occupy those 10 billion planets?

Humans have, after all, not been around very long, maybe 200,000 years at the most, and for 95% of t hat time, we've been hunter gatherers. It has only been the past 10,000 or so years that we've even begun to experiment with agriculture, mathematics, and written language, let alone science and reason.

It's only the past half millenium or so that we've even started looking at the stars through telescopes, and about that long since we first realized that this Earth was not the center of the universe.

On the scale of evolutionary development of life, we're still in our infancy. Moreover, most of the milestones we've passed have been very recent.

Going to the stars seems a distant dream now, but what will we accomplish in the next fifty thousand or so years? Right now, we're like a baby just taking its first tottering steps.
Click to expand...

Very true. If we don't kill ourselves off before then (nuclear, bio, war or any combination thereof), or the Earth becomes uninhabitable for us, such as the moon taking off on us (it is, but very slowly).
 
eohrnberger said:
There is a distinct possibility of that. Of course there are a number of physics constraints that would have to be worked out. Constraints at least as far as the physics that we currently understand. I may very well be that this 'other' intelligent life has a different / better understanding of physics and isn't constrained in the same way that we presently are.



True, but we'd better invent / discover / side step some of the physics constraints that we currently operate under. Otherwise it'd take a generational ship with flawless technologies, and I've never put much stock in those ever coming into being.



Very true. If we don't kill ourselves off before then (nuclear, bio, war or any combination thereof), or the Earth becomes uninhabitable for us, such as the moon taking off on us (it is, but very slowly).
Click to expand...

There is no way that the moon could take off on us, but nuclear and/or biological war is a chilling possibility. The Earth being hit by an asteroid, or one of Earth's super volcanoes going off, could set back civilization a bit too.
 
Dittohead not! said:
There is no way that the moon could take off on us, but nuclear and/or biological war is a chilling possibility. The Earth being hit by an asteroid, or one of Earth's super volcanoes going off, could set back civilization a bit too.
Click to expand...

You just added a few more to worry about.

However:
The Moon's orbit (its circular path around the Earth) is indeed getting larger, at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year. (The Moon's orbit has a radius of 384,000 km.) I wouldn't say that the Moon is getting closer to the Sun, specifically, though--it is getting farther from the Earth, so, when it's in the part of its orbit closest to the Sun, it's closer, but when it's in the part of its orbit farthest from the Sun, it's farther away.
Click to expand...
Curious About Astronomy: Is the Moon moving away from the Earth? When was this discovered?

For the last few billion years the Moon's gravity has been raising tides in Earth's oceanswhich the fast spinning Earth attempts to drag ahead of the sluggishly orbiting Moon. The result is that the Moon is being pushed away from Earth by 1.6 inches (4 centimeters) per year and our planet's rotation is slowing.
Click to expand...
Earth's Moon Destined to Disintegrate | Space.com

The speed at which the Moon is moving away from Earth could affect life on the planet, but this could take billions of years to happen, writes space scientist Dr Maggie Aderin-Pocock.
Click to expand...
BBC News - Why the Moon is getting further away from Earth

There are more articles on this fact.
 
eohrnberger said:
You just added a few more to worry about.

However:

Curious About Astronomy: Is the Moon moving away from the Earth? When was this discovered?


Earth's Moon Destined to Disintegrate | Space.com


BBC News - Why the Moon is getting further away from Earth

There are more articles on this fact.
Click to expand...

Well, OK, the moon isn't really permanent. The sun will eventually go nova as well.

But, we have quite a few years before we'll have to deal with either of those events. Nuclear/ biological war, a supervolcano, an asteroid strike, any of those could happen tomorrow.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Well, OK, the moon isn't really permanent. The sun will eventually go nova as well.

But, we have quite a few years before we'll have to deal with either of those events. Nuclear/ biological war, a supervolcano, an asteroid strike, any of those could happen tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Quite a few years. Yup. That's the good part, provided the other things don't happen.
Of course the Earth could always be caught in a gamma ray burst.
 
Hdreamz said:
I completely disagree, to say their is no point in going to Mars contadicts every fibre of my being both scientifically and exploratory. I can understand your arguments and the focus toward spacial colonies is a valid one, just one i dont agree with. We dont know for sure what's there and we could survive on Mars quite well, obviously within a protected environment. We have not yet as a species set foot on another world, the moon was just that... our moon. The expansion of our horizons does nothing but open new opportunities and possibilities. I didnt want to sound too cheesy but inevitably its happened.
Click to expand...

Scientifically speaking, no, we can't survive on Mars even in some sort of protected environment. It's all due to the gravity difference. There's less than we can handle on Mars. Eventually bone loss would cripple you, not to mention the ugliness that happens with increased organ size. We exist in a very small range of gravity. Too much or too little is a no go for us.

This is the reality that the NASA folks know and don't mention when propogating the fantasy of longterm colonies on Luna or Mars. With a manmade worldlet we could control the gravity, but on a planet? We're not even close.

Btw, another advantage to rolling our own world - in case of gamma burst, we can move the whole thing out of the range of fire.
 
Last edited:
clownboy said:
Scientifically speaking, no, we can't survive on Mars even in some sort of protected environment. It's all due to the gravity difference. There's less than we can handle on Mars. Eventually bone loss would cripple you, not to mention the ugliness that happens with increased organ size. We exist in a very small range of gravity. Too much or too little is a no go for us.

This is the reality that the NASA folks know and don't mention when propogating the fantasy of longterm colonies on Luna or Mars. With a manmade worldlet we could control the gravity, but on a planet? We're not even close.
Click to expand...

While you are technically correct about the bone and muscle loss, this would not mean we could not survive on Mars, just that extended exposure to the martian environment would likely mean that those individuals would not be able to survive returning to Earths environment. It wouldn't necessarily cause any threat to long term survival on Mars. Though admittedly being unable to return to Earth would not be ideal.
 
Hdreamz said:
While you are technically correct about the bone and muscle loss, this would not mean we could not survive on Mars, just that extended exposure to the martian environment would likely mean that those individuals would not be able to survive returning to Earths environment. It wouldn't necessarily cause any threat to long term survival on Mars. Though admittedly being unable to return to Earth would not be ideal.
Click to expand...

Sorry but you're wrong. Our circulatory systems rely on a certain gravity as does organ health. It will kill you within a decade and you, as you mention, would not be able to ever return to Earth. This is the reason we don't allow folks to live on the space station year round.

It's one of the five major space exploration issues:
1) gravity
2) shielding
3) environment
4) leaving the gravity well
5) re-entry
 
Last edited:
clownboy said:
Sorry but you're wrong. Our circulatory systems rely on a certain gravity as does organ health. It will kill you within a decade and you, as you mention, would not be able to ever return to Earth. This is the reason we don't allow folks to live on the space station year round.

It's one of the five major space exploration issues:
1) gravity
2) shielding
3) environment
4) leaving the gravity well
5) re-entry
Click to expand...

I said that we could survive in a protective environment, I didn't say that there wouldn't be any long term medical implications or drawbacks. I just don't see these as a reason to avoid human exploration of the most earth like habitat in the solar system. There are also major drawbacks to space based colonies and huge medical implications, but your run down of issue's is accurate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom