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The mass exodus of Christians from the Muslim world

Knowledge=power said:
Oh look, another inevitable war and many more years of bloodshed and unrest all at the hands of religion and a bunch of BS.

Not surprised.
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It;s at the hands of a particular religion (which is also in this case a governing model.) Saying otherwise is much like saying that World War II happened because there were countries.
 
Verthaine said:
Take your time,I'm in no rush.
I realize that's a problem that's been around since the dawn of man,not just 1400 years.
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We're discussing Islam which is currently the most prevalent justification for organized violence in the world.


People have always killed one another over religion.
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And even more often when there is no religious motive. You could just as pointlessly blame "land".


Christianity itself isn't exactly pure in the "killing non-believers" department.
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Nobody ever claimed it was. But between the two religions it isn't even worth comparison of which spurs more violence in the world today.


Not saying that christians are going around killing people,but there are a number of Christians engaged in some very objectionable activities in this country.
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You can't equivocate "objectionable activities" and murder and call it a day anymore than you can claim that the KKK is as big a threat to peace today as radical Islam.


Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind.
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Let me know when they start decapitating people and blowing themselves up in crowds.


Now I am not saying that every Christian is like the WBC,but what I am saying is that maybe Christianity should clean up it's own house before they attempt to clean up someone else's.
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Christianity has cleaned up it's act. The rate of violence in the name of Christianity is very low and not condoned by any Christian religion.


I fully agree.
It's some of the solutions that are still on that list that worries me.
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What solutions don't worry you?
 
beserkeleven said:
Yes, in the same way that radical Christians want us to die.
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And the same way radical atheists want me to die. Granted, in the last century atheists haven't really killed in the name of atheism, they've just used their atheism to turn the murder up to eleven. It's amazing how quickly power turns to murder when you believe there is no final judgment.
 
Atheists don't kill because of atheism. Atheists may kill, but that is entirely different than a religious person killing in the name of God/Allah.
 
Oftencold said:
It;s at the hands of a particular religion (which is also in this case a governing model.) Saying otherwise is much like saying that World War II happened because there were countries.
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Just because Christianity has not started a war or shed the blood of countless thousands for a few hundred years does not absolve it of criticism when religion becomes a catalyst for conflict.
 
Verthaine said:
What political point was he trying to make?
That homosexuals (and liberals) are worse than muslems?
.

Lets look at his very first line of his post,shall we?

That's an industrial size brush he used to paint homosexuals as hating Christianity in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuals.
Do you agree with him on this?
Is it alright to paint homesexuals in a negative light,but wrong to do it to christians?
Remember what I said to you about being consistent.
Lets see the rest of his post,shall we?


What the hell is he talking about?
Who is this "common enemy he is talking about.
Sounds like he's saying that homosexuals and muslIms are conspiring with each other to wage war on Christianity.
Do you agree with him on this?



Just what political point is he trying to make here?It doesn't make a lick of sense.
Do you understand it?Can you explain it to me?
And do you agree with it?

Homosexuals have nothing to do with this thread.Zero,zilch,nada,bumpkiss,NOTHING!!!!
I call bullcrap on your explanation that he was only going after the left in general.
I think his primary target were homosexuals.

But hey,why doesn't he just clarify his own statement?
But doing that isn't his usual modus operandi.

I said Paschendale was wrong for using the word "WE" and agreed with you that he was wrong for using a broad paintbrush on the Christians.
You argued with me about that for a number of posts.
Pashendale even apologized for using the "WE".
So,does Ray get to have a free pass from you just because he's a conservative?

What is your opinions on Ray410's post?Do you agree or disagree with what he wrote?
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I thought his statement was odd too but I took it as being a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" type of thing. To me it sounded like he was throwing a dig at the posters (by calling them homosexuals) who automatically started to jump all over Christianity while ignoring radicalized Islam which unlike modern day Christianity is actually quite violent and a threat to modern society. So the homosexuals and muslims conspiring together would be the liberals who seem to be defending people who would turn around and kill them if they were actually a part of the same society and their common enemy would be conservative America or in some cases just America in general.

I don't know what he really meant but that's how I read it, it seems like he has an issue with homosexuality in general as well but I don't know him, I couldn't say.
 
Monserrat said:
To me it sounded like he was throwing a dig at the posters (by calling them homosexuals) who automatically started to jump all over Christianity while ignoring radicalized Islam which unlike modern day Christianity is actually quite violent and a threat to modern society. So the homosexuals and muslims conspiring together would be the liberals who seem to be defending people who would turn around and kill them if they were actually a part of the same society and their common enemy would be conservative America or in some cases just America in general.
.
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Good job. It is just that simple.

Verthaine understands that, he is just seeking to initiate the all too common "Piling On" and ridicule process that should not be a part of any adult debate forum.
 
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jmotivator said:
We're discussing Islam which is currently the most prevalent justification for organized violence in the world.
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And at one point it was Christianity that were the big worldwide bullies.So what?
Both the big Abrahamic Monotheistic religions have a very long history of not playing nice with others and each other.
The question remains,"what do we do about it?"
A question that you had the opportunity to answer,and failed to do so.
I'm sorry,but singing a rousing round of the tune"Lets Get Everyone Here at DebatePolitics.Com to Hate All The Muslims" that's currently in vogue here just doesn't seem the answer to me.
If you hate Muslims,that's on you.I myself do not hate either Christianity or Islam,but I sure as hell not going to kiss the asses of their followers either.
If I'm going to hate someone,it not going to be about their religion,it's going to be about that person being a total asshole,or they are trying to hurt my family.

Islam as a "justification" is a mask,and I know enough to look under that mask to see the real problem.
It is human beings with the desires for power,wealth,and ego-gratification that are the problem.
Why don't we do something about them.
These people are a cancer growing in Islam,and if there is anything I learned from my cancer surviving surgeon wife is that you use a scalpel to remove a tumor,not a chainsaw.

jmotivator said:
And even more often when there is no religious motive. You could just as pointlessly blame "land".
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Like I said before,that's a mask.I blame human beings acting on their desire for power,wealth,and ego gratification.
I personally have no problem with blowing Islamic terrorists of the face of the map.Sending a missile up the asses of next Osama's Bin Ladens of the world is a good thing in my opinion.
I have a personal problem with blowing away Muslems who are just standing around minding their own business and not bothering anyone.

jmotivator said:
Nobody ever claimed it was. But between the two religions it isn't even worth comparison of which spurs more violence in the world today.
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How you choose your perspective is well within your right to do so.
How I choose my perspective is well within my right to do so.
If you choose to look only at today,or the last 1400 years, that's on you.
I'm not required to do that.
I'm looking at this problem from the dawn of recorded history through today.

And the question still remains.. "what do we do about it".

jmotivator said:
You can't equivocate "objectionable activities" and murder and call it a day anymore than you can claim that the KKK is as big a threat to peace today as radical Islam.
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I grew up outside of Bogalusa,Louisiana during the 50's,so I know a thing or two about the KKK.

"Falling short of killing people" does not mean the KKK or anyone else gets a free pass to act like assholes either.

As a black,non christian American man with an atheist American white wife and a gay American daughter,I'm looking around my country and seeing lots of my fellow Americans doing things in this country that really have me concerned for our future safety and freedoms.

There are plenty of Liberals in this country acting like complete assholes.
There are plenty of Conservatives in this country acting like complete assholes.
There are plenty of Atheists in this country acting like complete assholes.
There are plenty of Democrats in this country acting like complete assholes.
There are plenty of Republicans in this country acting like complete assholes.
There are plenty of Christians in this country acting like complete assholes.
There is plenty of asshole-ism going on in this country.

So to all you American Muslims out there,please don't start acting like assholes yourselves.
We already have more than we can handle as it is.We don't need you guys adding to the mix.

I condemn what is going on in Middle Eastern countries.
I condemn those people using Islam to achieve there own personal needs for power,wealth,and ego-gratification.
I condemn those Muslims who are allowing themselves to be manipulated by those above into doing very horrifying things.
But I am not going to hate all Muslems in general just because there are those on DP.Com that do.

I have nothing but compassion for those Christians being persecuted in the Middle East and forced out of there.
But I live in the United States of America,and sorry,but I am far more concerned with the problems currently going on in this country.
Islam itself just isn't even in the Top Ten List of things wrong with this Country.
But that's just my list.
If Islam has cracked the Top Ten in your list,jmotivator, of things that is wrong with this country,that's on you,not me


jmotivator said:
Let me know when they start decapitating people and blowing themselves up in crowds.
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To tell you the truth,I wouldn't put it pass those one or a few of those wingnuts at the WBC to eventually do something very horrifying to other people.It's only a matter of time.
Those who commit murder in this country (regardless of race,creed,color,political ideology,gender or sexual orientation) should be punished for those crimes to the fullest extent of the Law..
Those who commit no crimes shouldn't.
Like I said,jmotivator,if you hate Muslims,that's on you.If you don't hate Muslims,that's on you also.


jmotivator said:
Christianity has cleaned up it's act. The rate of violence in the name of Christianity is very low and not condoned by any Christian religion.
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I can't argue with you there.
But let me point out that it wasn't as if all of Christianity woke up one morning and decided to itself,"we are just not going to be assholes anymore".
Cleaning up Christianity's "act" was a very long,drawn out and dragged out process with lots of Christians kicking and screaming out "we don't wanna,we don't wanna,we don't wanna".
With lots of innocent people being hurt,(and some even killed) along the way to cleaning up Christianity's act.

Good for Christianity for finallycleaning up it's act (lets try to keep it that way,shall we),but there seems to be a few spots here and there that they missed.
So instead of getting mad at people like me for pointing out those dirty spots,wouldn't it be better just to clean them?

jmotivator said:
What solutions don't worry you?
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All of the solutions worry me,just some more than others.
I favor love,education and open communication as being the least worrisome,but those take a long time to achieve when there is a huge sing-a-long of "Lets Hate the Muslims" and "Lets Kill the Infidels" going on at all sides.

In all honesty,at 1400 years old,is Islam acting really any differently than Christianity did when it was 1400 years old itself?
 
Monserrat said:
I thought his statement was odd too but I took it as being a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" type of thing. To me it sounded like he was throwing a dig at the posters (by calling them homosexuals) who automatically started to jump all over Christianity while ignoring radicalized Islam which unlike modern day Christianity is actually quite violent and a threat to modern society.
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He used the term "homosexuals" as an offensive derogatory remark aimed at certain people here.That's my point.
I don't think that's allowed here.

He practically admits it himself.
Ray410 said:
Good job. It is just that simple.

Verthaine understands that, he is just seeking to initiate the all too common "Piling On" and ridicule process that should not be a part of any adult debate forum.
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You damn skippy I understand exactly what you did.
You used a totally inappropriate,large, and nasty paintbrush to paint people here,and you deserve whatever ridicule you get for doing so.


Monserrat said:
So the homosexuals and muslims conspiring together would be the liberals who seem to be defending people who would turn around and kill them if they were actually a part of the same society and their common enemy would be conservative America or in some cases just America in general.
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The problem is,he didn't use the phrase "some homosexuals".
I wouldn't have had a problem with that.
That would have been just his opinion,and I wouldn't have given a crap.
He used the blanket term "homosexuals".
He deliberately (in my opinion,and knowing his post history) painted all homosexuals with the same large nasty paintbroush.
That I have a problem with.
That I find offensive.

My daughter is gay,and she sure as hell doesn't hate anyone (she's really a wonderful sweet girl) and sure as hell ain't conspiring with a bunch Muslims.
She's too busy trying to get through med school.

Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.ZERO.ZILCH.NADA. NOTHING.
Ray410 didn't just try to "muddy the waters of well" here.
He took a dump and a piss into it.
If Paschendale shouldn't have used the term "WE",you Ray410, should have used the term "SOME".
At least Paschendale manned up and eventually apologized for using the word "WE".


Monserrat said:
I don't know what he really meant but that's how I read it, it seems like he has an issue with homosexuality in general as well but I don't know him, I couldn't say.
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I suggest you data mine Ray410's post history and determine for yourself.
 
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Knowledge=power said:
Just because Christianity has not started a war or shed the blood of countless thousands for a few hundred years does not absolve it of criticism when religion becomes a catalyst for conflict.
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It does however reveal that hyperemotional false equivalencies between the fictional versions of Christianity and history that some people entertain, and the very real and immediate threat of resurgent Islamic militancy to be a form of suicidal derangement.
 
Oftencold said:
It does however reveal that hyperemotional false equivalencies between the fictional versions of Christianity and history that some people entertain, and the very real and immediate threat of resurgent Islamic militancy to be a form of suicidal derangement.
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I agree that modern Christians do not typically harbor suicidal derangements. However, the religion itself is a target of the Islamic radicals. Thus, religion is once again responsible for causing a conflict. Simply being a Christian is enough to become a victim of a suicidally deranged Islamic radical - Christians are infidels in their eyes - and the cleansing of infidels plays a large role their derangement.
 
Knowledge=power said:
I agree that modern Christians do not typically harbor suicidal derangements. However, the religion itself is a target of the Islamic radicals. Thus, religion is once again responsible for causing a conflict. Simply being a Christian is enough to become a victim of a suicidally deranged Islamic radical - Christians are infidels in their eyes - and the cleansing of infidels plays a large role their derangement.
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Short of professing belief in allah, you're going to be viewed as an infidel. Hell, being that a level of protection is afforded to scriptuaries, atheists would likely fair much worse.

So it's rather asinine to hold both groups equallybqccountable here. Or ignore the fact that many religions and many religious practitioners do not suffer the same ills we see in fundamentalist and radical islam
 
Verthaine said:
And at one point it was Christianity that were the big worldwide bullies.So what?
Both the big Abrahamic Monotheistic religions have a very long history of not playing nice with others and each other.
The question remains,"what do we do about it?"
A question that you had the opportunity to answer,and failed to do so.
I'm sorry,but singing a rousing round of the tune"Lets Get Everyone Here at DebatePolitics.Com to Hate All The Muslims" that's currently in vogue here just doesn't seem the answer to me.
If you hate Muslims,that's on you.I myself do not hate either Christianity or Islam,but I sure as hell not going to kiss the asses of their followers either.
If I'm going to hate someone,it not going to be about their religion,it's going to be about that person being a total asshole,or they are trying to hurt my family.

Islam as a "justification" is a mask,and I know enough to look under that mask to see the real problem.
It is human beings with the desires for power,wealth,and ego-gratification that are the problem.
Why don't we do something about them.
These people are a cancer growing in Islam,and if there is anything I learned from my cancer surviving surgeon wife is that you use a scalpel to remove a tumor,not a chainsaw.
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This is like arguing that nazi ideology had no influence on how the Germans responded to the social and economic conditions following ww1.

And while I agree social and economic factors play into the issue here, how people respond to such things is highly dependent on their ideological views. And Islam has some very mainstream and widely accepted ideological views that makes it horrifyingly barbaric.

And we are not talking about simple nutters that exist on the fringe. But mainstream movements that can command a majority of the population in many instances
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
This is like arguing that nazi ideology had no influence on how the Germans responded to the social and economic conditions following ww1.

And while I agree social and economic factors play into the issue here, how people respond to such things is highly dependent on their ideological views. And Islam has some very mainstream and widely accepted ideological views that makes it horrifyingly barbaric.

And we are not talking about simple nutters that exist on the fringe. But mainstream movements that can command a majority of the population in many instances
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I fully agree that Islam has a lot of internal housecleaning they need to do for themselves.
And the quicker they do it,the better it is for everyone.
 
Erod said:
The mass exodus of Christians from the Muslim world | Fox News








A holy war of epic proportions is brewing. To these jihadist Muslims, there is no room for Christians on the planet, and negotiations are not possible.

And you hear almost nothing in the media about this.
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you forget the crusade declared against them by bush ?

no christian will suffer if you dont support islamist monsters and rebels who are called freedom fighters by the west

and why do you forget the rapist psycho serbian christian bastards ?


why is this post is an example of how a person WANTs to ignore all the facts ?

,why does CİVİLİZED west forgets teh bosnian genocide and rapes ?
 
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Erod said:
Christians account for 90 percent of the charity and humanitarian efforts on the planet, yet atheists insist on equating them to radical Muslims. Please show me the worldwide charitable outreach efforts from Islamists.

And before you go the "small percentage of disenfranchised" route, the Boston bombers had a pretty good life here,.and and killed eight-year-olds with a bomb for Allah anyway.
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They're not having much of a life now, are they?
 
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