• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Why aren’t liberals more critical of Islam?

Gardener said:
I agree with much of what you have to say, especially in regards to the difference between Muslims and Islamists. Some of what you say strikes me as a bit specious, however, especially in regards to your comparisons between Islam and Christianity. All these issues in regards to gay rights and whatnot only have to do with lack of representation within the population rather than lack of support or opposition.

Were you to compare the populations of Christians vs Muslims world wide and try to chart the range of attitudes among their adherents, you would find that Islam is far more conservative in nature. That does not mean there are no liberal Muslims nor conservative Christians -- obviously not. It simply means that the relationship between the adherents and the religion is such that Islam is more predisposed towards fundamentalist beliefs. THey are NOT the same despite your claims, they are different, and part of this difference lies in the structure of the religions, themselves. Islam is more predisposed towards rules and laws, whereas Christianity is more predisposed towards spirit. Sure, there are countless Christians who WANT Christianity to be all about rules and laws -- Pharisees all -- an these people can be as annoying as all get up, but that doesn't change the nature of Islam one iota.

If people make excuses for Islam while attacking Christianity, they are acting as hypocrites. THis hypocrisy is even more obvious when they attack Christianity for certain aspects that are much less prevelent and much less strident than similar aspects of Islam.
Click to expand...

guess it depends on your experience. I have found that in muslim countries, people TEND to be more conservative, but if you think that's about Islam, you need to go to some Christian communities in African countries, or talk to some middle eastern Christians.

in the west, often muslims are more conservative - not always though .... but I remember post war migrants from southern Europe being extremely conservative 50 years ago, too .... so it may not be about Islam at all.

that said, the way islam is usually interpreted, including by many of its adherents, does lend itself to being a weapon of abuse - but that isn't really different from Christianity.

the main issues that people in the west have with "Islam" isn't really with islam at all, its modernity vs traditional cultural mores.
 
Liberals fear of being labeled racist far out weighs their indignation of what Islam actually espouses.

As a political force, Muslims have less or little sway in America, as such they are natural allies of liberals in regards to advancing the minority status of whichever is the cause du jour. By conveniently ignoring the parts they don't like or if they find the right kind of Muslims to prance about, they can bring them into the fold. Liberals love strength in numbers, you know mob rule.

What liberals (and Obama is wonderful at doing this without actually saying it) are trying to do essentially is make it a paradigm of

GOP = White, Christian, Corporatist
DEM = Everyone else.

The GOP is letting itself get pigeon-holed, and the pathetic, pandering to minorities, prancing Hispanics and Blacks out with a shout "See we have them too!!" isn't helping matters.
 
ChezC3 said:
Liberals fear of being labeled racist far out weighs their indignation of what Islam actually espouses.

As a political force, Muslims have less or little sway in America, as such they are natural allies of liberals in regards to advancing the minority status of whichever is the cause du jour. By conveniently ignoring the parts they don't like or if they find the right kind of Muslims to prance about, they can bring them into the fold. Liberals love strength in numbers, you know mob rule.

What liberals (and Obama is wonderful at doing this without actually saying it) are trying to do essentially is make it a paradigm of

GOP = White, Christian, Corporatist
DEM = Everyone else.

The GOP is letting itself get pigeon-holed, and the pathetic, pandering to minorities, prancing Hispanics and Blacks out with a shout "See we have them too!!" isn't helping matters.
Click to expand...

I see huge numbers of people doing just that and agree with you wholeheartedly. I just don't call them liberals, because they aren't really adhering to liberal ideology in terms of advancing human rights to all and doing so with an eye for social justice. All they are doing is reacting and creating double standards because of peer pressure. They would lose their cred if they DIDN'T have such massive double standards.

I see it as a product, too, of a certain brand of Multiculturalism which demands that different groups be judged by different standards. Ths sort of cultural and moral relativism is actually antithetical to the promotion of unversal liberal values, even if it is those who mistakenly indentify as liberal who are the chief culprits.
 
Gardener said:
I see huge numbers of people doing just that and agree with you wholeheartedly. I just don't call them liberals, because they aren't really adhering to liberal ideology in terms of advancing human rights to all and doing so with an eye for social justice. All they are doing is reacting and creating double standards because of peer pressure. They would lose their cred if they DIDN'T have such massive double standards.

I see it as a product, too, of a certain brand of Multiculturalism which demands that different groups be judged by different standards. Ths sort of cultural and moral relativism is actually antithetical to the promotion of unversal liberal values, even if it is those who mistakenly indentify as liberal who are the chief culprits.
Click to expand...

I agree that liberals promote anything but liberalism, a long time sparring partner who joined the DP community around the same time I did coined the phrase for these types as the "Unthinking Left" which I believe is an apt description.

Multiculturalism is the root cause of the problem. Multiculturalism in my opinion as it is laid out is the forcing of other people's accepted norms and behaviors onto everyone else while denouncing and demonizing people who have convictions that they simply won't part with.

America has been called the "Melting Pot" since what, 1908 I believe. So multiculturalism isn't a new thing. Multiculturalism of today is really a system designed to bring all minorities under one umbrella to make a unified push against the White, Christian culture that is the prevalent status quo here in America.

The double standards are inherent in their ideology because they aren't trying to make things equal. They are trying to tear down one institution and replace it with a multitude of incompatible ones whose only tie that binds is the destruction of the current one.
 
Maenad said:
Really? Then why mention them on this thread. Do tell, what are all those 'abuses.'
Click to expand...

before i get into this i want you to make the claim that middle east christians do not do bad things. I want you to get firmly on that claim before i do the work to knock you off. make that claim and i will hammer you for it, and if you are not going to make that claim it is because you know just how easy it would be for me to find incidents of middle east christians doing bad things in the name of their religion. But I am going to walk down idiot path first.
 
tererun said:
before i get into this i want you to make the claim that middle east christians do not do bad things. I want you to get firmly on that claim before i do the work to knock you off. make that claim and i will hammer you for it, and if you are not going to make that claim it is because you know just how easy it would be for me to find incidents of middle east christians doing bad things in the name of their religion. But I am going to walk down idiot path first.
Click to expand...

Have you been to the middle east? I have. Somehow I doubt you have been anywhere near there.
 
Maenad said:
Have you been to the middle east? I have. Somehow I doubt you have been anywhere near there.
Click to expand...

That is not fully getting on your side of the argument so I can say you are wrong. If you cannot argue that middle east christians have not performed abuses on the people you should not have confronted me with that BS. Any time you want to make that claim feel free to do it. otherwise we both know you cannot argue against my point with any integrity and you were arguing with me without even believing your own point. All I require is that you make the statement that middle east christians do not abuse people so I have an actual point to confront with some evidence. if you cannot do that you do not have a point.
 
tererun said:
That is not fully getting on your side of the argument so I can say you are wrong. If you cannot argue that middle east christians have not performed abuses on the people you should not have confronted me with that BS. Any time you want to make that claim feel free to do it. otherwise we both know you cannot argue against my point with any integrity and you were arguing with me without even believing your own point. All I require is that you make the statement that middle east christians do not abuse people so I have an actual point to confront with some evidence. if you cannot do that you do not have a point.
Click to expand...

You are the one who made the assertion. One who makes assertions should be prepared to support them. I see that you are not prepared to do so, just as I suspected. Of course, what I have learned is that most people who really haven't been anywhere can always tell those of us who have been places what it's all about. I see you are no exception.
 
Maenad said:
You are the one who made the assertion. One who makes assertions should be prepared to support them. I see that you are not prepared to do so, just as I suspected. Of course, what I have learned is that most people who really haven't been anywhere can always tell those of us who have been places what it's all about. I see you are no exception.
Click to expand...

So you will not make the claim t6haty christians in the middle east have not abused people. Since you cannot make that claim I have no reason to confront that claim.
 
tererun said:
So you will not make the claim t6haty christians in the middle east have not abused people. Since you cannot make that claim I have no reason to confront that claim.
Click to expand...

Obviously you never intended to back up what you stated. So far all you have done is attempt to bait and to flame. No surprise.
 
Maenad said:
I have yet to run across one on the forums.
Click to expand...

I don't hate Muslims, just as I don't hate Christians, but I don't like nor support Islam any more than I do Christianity. Perhaps you're confusing sympathizing with a fellow minority with supporting Islam.
 
ChezC3 said:
Liberals fear of being labeled racist far out weighs their indignation of what Islam actually espouses.

As a political force, Muslims have less or little sway in America, as such they are natural allies of liberals in regards to advancing the minority status of whichever is the cause du jour. By conveniently ignoring the parts they don't like or if they find the right kind of Muslims to prance about, they can bring them into the fold. Liberals love strength in numbers, you know mob rule.

What liberals (and Obama is wonderful at doing this without actually saying it) are trying to do essentially is make it a paradigm of

GOP = White, Christian, Corporatist
DEM = Everyone else.

The GOP is letting itself get pigeon-holed, and the pathetic, pandering to minorities, prancing Hispanics and Blacks out with a shout "See we have them too!!" isn't helping matters.
Click to expand...

the world does not revolve around US partisan politics.
 
afr0byte said:
I don't hate Muslims, just as I don't hate Christians, but I don't like nor support Islam any more than I do Christianity. Perhaps you're confusing sympathizing with a fellow minority with supporting Islam.
Click to expand...

I think that while we Liberals are pointing out the travesty that is Christianity we need to also point out the travesty that is Islam because many are leaving the impression that Islam is "ok", which it definitely is not...........................
 
AlabamaPaul said:
No, but this site does... ;)
Click to expand...

Good evening, AP. :2wave: Glad you joined us...

And it's much more polite than our old site was! It's actually a pleasure to argue...excuse me...exchange thoughts here :duel:
 
polgara said:
Good evening, AP. :2wave: Glad you joined us...

And it's much more polite than our old site was! It's actually a pleasure to argue...excuse me...exchange thoughts here :duel:
Click to expand...

Well most times, I agree, but there are those times... :doh

Good evening pg...
 
I'm critical of Islam where it merits criticism. What I have a problem with is right-wing idiots trying to argue that Islam is somehow inherently more violent or evil than other religions using crap hypocritical arguments - considering the bloody histories of all three Abrahamic religions, Christianity included, it's a pretty hard case to make.

Just like how ignorant whites bitch about affirmative action yet are completely blind to the existence of their own privilege, like the girl who's suing the college that failed to accept her because supposedly there were a ton of minority kids who had the same or worse qualifications as her but got accepted, yet failing to recognize the large numbers of minority students who had better qualifications than her and failed to get in, and the white students who had worse qualifications and did get in.
 
Last edited:
Bonzai said:
I think that while we Liberals are pointing out the travesty that is Christianity we need to also point out the travesty that is Islam because many are leaving the impression that Islam is "ok", which it definitely is not...........................
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, I just don't tend to have any real occasion to call out Islam, being in the US.
 
afr0byte said:
I don't disagree, I just don't tend to have any real occasion to call out Islam, being in the US.
Click to expand...



Understandable, but I don't have to live in Russia to call out Vladimir Putin as a douchebag.......................
 
StillBallin75 said:
I'm critical of Islam where it merits criticism. What I have a problem with is right-wing idiots trying to argue that Islam is somehow inherently more violent or evil than other religions using crap hypocritical arguments - considering the bloody histories of all three Abrahamic religions, Christianity included, it's a pretty hard case to make.
Click to expand...

While I have no interest in comparing tallies here there are clear doctrinal differences between Christianity and Islam. Gardner explained it earlier with islams heavy focus on social and political organization. There were similar things in earlier judaism , I believe. But obviously being a minority doesn't do much for implamentation
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
While I have no interest in comparing tallies here there are clear doctrinal differences between Christianity and Islam. Gardner explained it earlier with islams heavy focus on social and political organization. There were similar things in earlier judaism , I believe. But obviously being a minority doesn't do much for implamentation
Click to expand...

Of course there are doctrinal differences between Christianity and Islam...........Who is actually buying into the Right's message of Christianity is the lesser of the the two evils, in the sense that it is preferable, escapes me................
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom