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Easter Silly

tessaesque said:
FWIW, I was thinking more those who created and contributed the rules...namely the ones I find to be a bit silly (mixed cloth, shellfish and pork, marrying your dead brother's childless widow, etc.), but you're right. It was the council that housed those who feared losing power and who selected the final texts, dictating what Christianity was supposed to be to everybody else (including a lot of people who had no interest at the time).
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Yeah those points are pretty tough. They cross the line between faith and religion. There is no doubt that religion has been used as a form of control over people for centuries. But faith and religion are not the same thing. I was raised Catholic (which led to my eventual atheism), that particular system of religion bastardizes faith IMO.
 
tech30528 said:
Yeah those points are pretty tough. They cross the line between faith and religion. There is no doubt that religion has been used as a form of control over people for centuries. But faith and religion are not the same thing. I was raised Catholic (which led to my eventual atheism), that particular system of religion bastardizes faith IMO.
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I prefer individuals to religion, so I get what you're saying ( faith v. religion). My father was an interim preacher for a small church in Oklahoma shortly before I was born. On any given Sunday you could catch him tearing into the televangelists. These days he doesn't go to church. He isn't particularly preachy, either. He believes, though...and it certainly grates him that I don't. But he's mostly okay with what I believe and how I interact w/the world. Then again, a lot of churches would probably wet themselves over his "liberal" views.
 
spanky said:
Because it's bullshat and causes you to cede power over your own life to a non entity and even worse the priests of the non entity.
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Does it? Because I have heard the personal accounts of those who are dealing with things they can not fully understand come to peace with it. A good friend who recently died of pancreatic cancer gave an account of his struggles with the inevitable being taken away while returning home from a doctor's appointment. He had been angry and confused and lashed out at whoever or whatever he felt was responsible. from what he said (and I had no reason do doubt him, I'd known him for years) He prayed for understanding. And while he never did achieve that, he found peace, as he described it, as "A warmth that washed over him and brought him to tears followed by the complete absence of anxiety". He spent his last several months happier than I had seen him in a long time. And when he finally succumbed to the cancer he did it with a smile on his face despite the pain he was in.

Does that sound like something he should have done without?

RIP Richard, we miss you.
 
I think everyone has a friend or loved one who experienced a deathbed conversion. What is the moral of that story, that people don't need religion until the grim reaper is at their bedside when doubt about the future is most acute? The purpose of most religions is to teach people how to live their life, not end it. Which by most accounts, as callous as it might sound, a selfish endeavor at best.

IMO, a religious person who uses deathbed accounts as a means to justify their beliefs and the existence of their god is a fragile if not exploitative religion.
 
spanky said:
Because it's bullshat and causes you to cede power over your own life to a non entity and even worse the priests of the non entity.
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I don't cede any kind of power over my life. What the hell are you even talking about?
 
spanky said:
Because it's bullshat and causes you to cede power over your own life to a non entity and even worse the priests of the non entity.
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You're no better than religious people who try to stuff their perspectives down other people's throats. You're just intolerant of ideas that aren't your own - nothing more. Militant theists and militant atheists are two sides of the same coin.
 
spanky said:
I think everyone has a friend or loved one who experienced a deathbed conversion. What is the moral of that story, that people don't need religion until the grim reaper is at their bedside when doubt about the future is most acute? The purpose of most religions is to teach people how to live their life, not end it. Which by most accounts, as callous as it might sound, a selfish endeavor at best.

IMO, a religious person who uses deathbed accounts as a means to justify their beliefs and the existence of their god is a fragile if not exploitative religion.
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People who have no motive to lie make the most trustworthy witnesses. That includes all deathbed statements. People who dismiss out-of-hand everyone who is telling the truth, are the ones with a fragile and exploitative mindset.
 
tech30528 said:
Does that sound like something he should have done without?
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Nope, but it does sound like the ol' standard 5 steps of grief. So likely more just nominal human reaction than any "divine" intervention.

 
In many contexts mocking someone's religion is rude, but I don't think doing so in an internet thread titled "Easter Silly" is one of those contexts. What did you expect to read in this thread?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
You're no better than religious people who try to stuff their perspectives down other people's throats. You're just intolerant of ideas that aren't your own - nothing more. Militant theists and militant atheists are two sides of the same coin.
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Yes, it's so intolerant of me to express my opinion on an internet chat room.

Why do you think I'm an atheist? Does it make you feel better to label me such?
 
AmericanWoman76 said:
People who have no motive to lie make the most trustworthy witnesses. That includes all deathbed statements. People who dismiss out-of-hand everyone who is telling the truth, are the ones with a fragile and exploitative mindset.
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Deathbed supplicants are the least trustworthy because at the moment they have the most to lose.
 
Hard Truth said:
In many contexts mocking someone's religion is rude, but I don't think doing so in an internet thread titled "Easter Silly" is one of those contexts. What did you expect to read in this thread?
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They expected their Jesus pole to be stroked...as usual. And they'll use the dead or near dead to facilitate it, if need be. It's when people are most vulnerable.
 
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spanky said:
Deathbed supplicants are the least trustworthy because at the moment they have the most to lose.
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No, you have that backwards, they have absolutely nothing to lose.
 
AmericanWoman76 said:
No, you have that backwards, they have absolutely nothing to lose.
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They've lost everything in life all they have left is their soul. Our you saying that means nothing?
 
spanky said:
They've lost everything in life all they have left is their soul. Our you saying that means nothing?
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They can only lose their soul by lying, at that point, not by telling the truth, and you can't even believe in souls if you believe that everyone on their deathbed is a liar. nice try to twist your own argument 180 degrees just to disagree with me though.
 
AmericanWoman76 said:
They can only lose their soul by lying, at that point, not by telling the truth, and you can't even believe in souls if you believe that everyone on their deathbed is a liar. nice try to twist your own argument 180 degrees just to disagree with me though.
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Really. And how do you know that, are you GOD?
 
tech30528 said:
Does it? Because I have heard the personal accounts of those who are dealing with things they can not fully understand come to peace with it. A good friend who recently died of pancreatic cancer gave an account of his struggles with the inevitable being taken away while returning home from a doctor's appointment. He had been angry and confused and lashed out at whoever or whatever he felt was responsible. from what he said (and I had no reason do doubt him, I'd known him for years) He prayed for understanding. And while he never did achieve that, he found peace, as he described it, as "A warmth that washed over him and brought him to tears followed by the complete absence of anxiety". He spent his last several months happier than I had seen him in a long time. And when he finally succumbed to the cancer he did it with a smile on his face despite the pain he was in.

Does that sound like something he should have done without?

RIP Richard, we miss you.
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Lots of people find comfort from myths and superstitious belief in that which isn't supported by reality. That's one reason these things persist.
 
calamity said:
Lots of people find comfort from myths and superstitious belief in that which isn't supported by reality. That's one reason these things persist.
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You accurately mean myths that aren't supported by your own perspective of reality.

The Bible itself says, seek and yea shall find. I'm guessing you've never really expected to find answers to these questions.
 
calamity said:
Lots of people find comfort from myths and superstitious belief in that which isn't supported by reality. That's one reason these things persist.
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Not really the point. Richard was dying a rather unpleasant death. He found comfort in his faith. It doesn't matter a bit to me where his faith fell on your data sheet or which synapse you think was responsible for the thought that got him there. No empirical evidence explains faith. If you don't get it that's your issue. I know you'll say you don't have an issue, but you do. You just don't know it yet. I've been there. I even used to expend a fair amount of energy enlightening the religious to their error and would generally walk away from such a conversation feeling I had liberated another confused follower to the truth. But when it happens to you, you will get it. I wrote about it nearly 5 years ago when it happened to me. That's some powerful stuff.

So it's like this: if what you need is quantifiable evidence to make you feel better then faith is probably not for you. When you figure out that Spock is probably not the best model if you intend to associate with people (who tend to have emotions of some kind) or something happens in your life that makes you realize the world is much bigger than you are you may change your mind. But don' t make it a point to go out and take away other people's faith if it isn't harming you. Sometimes a little comfort is what makes the difference between moving forward or not.
 
Trip said:
You accurately mean myths that aren't supported by your own perspective of reality.

The Bible itself says, seek and yea shall find. I'm guessing you've never really expected to find answers to these questions.
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No, I mean myths that aren't supported by unbiased observations of reality. There is no double blind study anywhere that suggests praying can heal or stop an earthquake. But yet, all I ever hear from "believers" is that prayer makes everything better. If it does, it does so as placebo, nothing more.
 
tech30528 said:
Not really the point. Richard was dying a rather unpleasant death. He found comfort in his faith. It doesn't matter a bit to me where his faith fell on your data sheet or which synapse you think was responsible for the thought that got him there. No empirical evidence explains faith. If you don't get it that's your issue. I know you'll say you don't have an issue, but you do. You just don't know it yet. I've been there. I even used to expend a fair amount of energy enlightening the religious to their error and would generally walk away from such a conversation feeling I had liberated another confused follower to the truth. But when it happens to you, you will get it. I wrote about it nearly 5 years ago when it happened to me. That's some powerful stuff.

So it's like this: if what you need is quantifiable evidence to make you feel better then faith is probably not for you. When you figure out that Spock is probably not the best model if you intend to associate with people (who tend to have emotions of some kind) or something happens in your life that makes you realize the world is much bigger than you are you may change your mind. But don' t make it a point to go out and take away other people's faith if it isn't harming you. Sometimes a little comfort is what makes the difference between moving forward or not.
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We've all had experiences which could be attributed to divine intervention. But...common sense should dictate that it's clearly something else at work not some father in the sky bs, especially not one who sent his only begotten son here to die for our sins, only to resurrect him a few days later. WTF? That's just stupid.
 
calamity said:
We've all had experiences which could be attributed to divine intervention. But...common sense should dictate that it's clearly something else at work not some father in the sky bs, especially not one who sent his only begotten son here to die for our sins, only to resurrect him a few days later. WTF? That's just stupid.
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I think you should start an immediate campaign to enlighten the rest of the world with that view. There are only a couple of billion people who believe in God, with your obviously superior rationale that shouldn't be a problem. It is much more important to be scientifically correct using only the format you prefer and repeatable evidence you can see from where you stand than it is to have hope or any sense of peace. If only people would accept your position they would be as happy as you obviously are. Might as well just take it all the way to each of us being a binary random blip with no meaning or purpose. Then we could all just get in a bathtub and slit our wrists and be done with it, and you would have your internet victory. At the point the true meaning of life will be resolved.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
1. After not eating meat or fish for 40 days and gorging myself on steak, empanadas, shrimp and other amazing food yesterday, I can safely say that Easter is not, nor ever will be, silly. It's one of the best days of the year. Everyone should participate. Maybe that's why you're so upset - because you didn't get to participate in the feast. :lol:
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wow, that's impressive. i just did the no meat on Fridays; had some great fish sandwiches. i was raised Catholic, but kind of stopped going in college. still, doing the meat restrictions just feels right somehow, so i started doing it again in 2011.
 
tech30528 said:
I think you should start an immediate campaign to enlighten the rest of the world with that view. There are only a couple of billion people who believe in God, with your obviously superior rationale that shouldn't be a problem. It is much more important to be scientifically correct using only the format you prefer and repeatable evidence you can see from where you stand than it is to have hope or any sense of peace. If only people would accept your position they would be as happy as you obviously are. Might as well just take it all the way to each of us being a binary random blip with no meaning or purpose. Then we could all just get in a bathtub and slit our wrists and be done with it, and you would have your internet victory. At the point the true meaning of life will be resolved.
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So, it's better to bull**** ourselves than face reality because doing so would hurt our feeeelings. :cry:

That's the "conservative" position?
 
calamity said:
It's also embarrassing to live in a country where almost half the people think that the resurrection is real. My god, here we are in the 21st century and people cling to myths from year freaking 35. How crazy is that?

It's just silly.
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your bigotry is an embarrassment to some of your fellow non-believers
 
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