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Mission Trips

JC Callender said:
I don't know the answer to your first question, I only know that I seem to be able to choose freely. If a parent gives a child the freedom to make choices, in most cases, the parent has the ability to influence the outcome. Now imagine if that parent was perfect, with the possibility to work within or without the confines of time and certain dimensions.

In regards to your second paragraph, I'm assuming since Jesus is the most talked about figure in history that he wasn't just any common prophet. I don't think most prophets claimed to be the Son of God, which would normally totally disqualify a person from any rational discourse. Have you ever wondered why so many smart and well respected people believe in Him, including many, if not most, US Presidents? When I first read the New Testament, I wondered why anyone would make it up. Do you know why? What did Jesus gain from all of it if only a mere mortal? What did Paul gain? Instead of a scam, it seemed to me like a very compelling story for why and how we should love others. For example, "Love thy neighbor", or the Golden Rule, I think is the best basic law to ultimately ensure a happy and well run society.
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This is just another argument from popularity. I provided a link to its definition, but you should do some research into logical fallacies because they are an immediate roadblock to logical discourse on complex topics such as this. People spread and repeat misinformation religiously (pun intended) and I don't see how Jesus' claim to be the Son of God is unique in any way. The Kim family in North Korea have claimed as much for generations and receive adoration from an entire nation of people, but because Jesus made his claim at a time when it could be taken seriously and gained traction, he wasn't deluded? Popularity is by no means proof of veracity. And I certainly don't look to US Politicians as my guide to truth.

I don't know what to tell you about the other religions as I haven't studied them all. _________ has been the best philosophy I've found and I haven't seen any compelling evidence to get me to switch to another, unless you would care to share it with me.
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I blanked Christianity. You can fill that blank with whichever religion you choose, and I've heard that exact sentence from a follower of your chosen religion. I don't need to provide proof for others' religions, followers need to provide proof to me. They're the ones basing laws and governments on the commandments of their God. They're positing his existence. The burden of proof is on the one who claims existence of the seemingly nonexistent.
 
Jesus claim to be Son of God was unique enough to have him crucified. And it could be taken seriously today if someone spoke and acted in the way Jesus did under the circumstances. What, do you think Jesus and Kim spread the same message? And you don't have to look at US Presidents or the human race in general since the time of Jesus if you don't want to, but it may just make you scratch you head and wonder why all of these people believe in what to you seems like such nonsense. You act like Jesus isn't unique, but why would the most famous person in history not be?

I'd like to know your philosophy and your 100% proof that it exists as a perfect philosophy. After all, you wouldn't be nitpicking a fraud like Christianity so much if there wasn't a legitimate alternative, would you?

And, I, like most Christians I've met, believe in separation of church and state.


idk said:
This is just another argument from popularity. I provided a link to its definition, but you should do some research into logical fallacies because they are an immediate roadblock to logical discourse on complex topics such as this. People spread and repeat misinformation religiously (pun intended) and I don't see how Jesus' claim to be the Son of God is unique in any way. The Kim family in North Korea have claimed as much for generations and receive adoration from an entire nation of people, but because Jesus made his claim at a time when it could be taken seriously and gained traction, he wasn't deluded? Popularity is by no means proof of veracity. And I certainly don't look to US Politicians as my guide to truth.


I blanked Christianity. You can fill that blank with whichever religion you choose, and I've heard that exact sentence from a follower of your chosen religion. I don't need to provide proof for others' religions, followers need to provide proof to me. They're the ones basing laws and governments on the commandments of their God. They're positing his existence. The burden of proof is on the one who claims existence of the seemingly nonexistent.
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Knowledge=power said:
I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.
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I don't know, it's hard to speak to intent. But most people I would venture a guess are just doing what they are told their duty is with no more thought into it than that.
 
JC Callender said:
Jesus claim to be Son of God was unique enough to have him crucified. And it could be taken seriously today if someone spoke and acted in the way Jesus did under the circumstances. What, do you think Jesus and Kim spread the same message? And you don't have to look at US Presidents or the human race in general since the time of Jesus if you don't want to, but it may just make you scratch you head and wonder why all of these people believe in what to you seems like such nonsense. You act like Jesus isn't unique, but why would the most famous person in history not be?

I'd like to know your philosophy and your 100% proof that it exists as a perfect philosophy. After all, you wouldn't be nitpicking a fraud like Christianity so much if there wasn't a legitimate alternative, would you?

And, I, like most Christians I've met, believe in separation of church and state.
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Good evening, JC.

Today we institutionalize those who believe they're Christ. Have we become more civilized? I don't think it's that at all, but the difference between the Old and New Testaments and their general outlook on life...ie, "an eye for an eye, etc." Today we have laws that handle that. do you agree?
 
Evening Polgara,

I think we are more civilized today in our laws and how we treat one another, but I think that has a lot to do with Jesus. I don't blame Jesus for all of the bad things that people commit while using Christianity as cover.

polgara said:
Good evening, JC.

Today we institutionalize those who believe they're Christ. Have we become more civilized? I don't think it's that at all, but the difference between the Old and New Testaments and their general outlook on life...ie, "an eye for an eye, etc." Today we have laws that handle that. do you agree?
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JC Callender said:
Evening Polgara,

I think we are more civilized today in our laws and how we treat one another, but I think that has a lot to do with Jesus. I don't blame Jesus for all of the bad things that people commit while using Christianity as cover.
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It is my belief that we will all answer one day for what we do. Those that use Christianity to further their own desires are especially troubling to me, because it makes it easier for those who do not believe to use a big paintbrush on all Christians. It's not fair, but then no one said it was supposed to be. Further, I don't think it matters which particular church you attend, because a lot of people choose their church for social reasons, not for the sermons. Just saying...
 
I wasn't particularly fond of many of the folks I attended church with. I thought there were a lot of weak and petty people who lacked the two things any experienced Christian should have at least a fair amount of, moral courage and integrity. So yes, I think many go just for social reasons as well. Also, to your first point:

"Of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst" - C.S. Lewis

polgara said:
It is my belief that we will all answer one day for what we do. Those that use Christianity to further their own desires are especially troubling to me, because it makes it easier for those who do not believe to use a big paintbrush on all Christians. It's not fair, but then no one said it was supposed to be. Further, I don't think it matters which particular church you attend, because a lot of people choose their church for social reasons, not for the sermons. Just saying...
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Ikari said:
I don't know, it's hard to speak to intent. But most people I would venture a guess are just doing what they are told their duty is with no more thought into it than that.
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The same reason most people are religious, they're just mindless, gullible sheep that do what they're told without thinking about it.
 
Knowledge=power said:
A complex nature and intricate universe does not equal a designer... This exposes the feeble minded nature of the God of the gaps argument to a T. Before we understood microorganisms, God and Satan and demons were what we filled the gap with... catch the trend?



So it's ok to disobey all of the ten commandments, and not spread the faith, and everything else except what? And please provide a verse or passage where he says this.



So... you're saying they want nothing in return from being a 'good' Christian?...
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1. Does the fact that you can take your computer apart and figure out how these words appear on your screen through tiny electrical connections mean that I am not real?

2. No. The difference is God judges motives, not actions. You can read any one of the gospels and see what Jesus had to say about the Pharisees.

3. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. Psalm 23:1
 
Knowledge=power said:
A passage can be found like that in all of the monotheistic religion's texts. Basically it is saying Christians are better than everyone else. It is elitist and offensive.
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You got thin skin. You better toughen up or the real world will have you for breakfast.
 
Stopandthink said:
1. Does the fact that you can take your computer apart and figure out how these words appear on your screen through tiny electrical connections mean that I am not real?
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What???...

Stopandthink said:
2. No. The difference is God judges motives, not actions. You can read any one of the gospels and see what Jesus had to say about the Pharisees.
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So if God senses that a Christian has the motive of cleansing the land of homosexuals in his name, then he blows himself up at a LGBT parade, that action is justified because he did it in God's name?

Stopandthink said:
3. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. Psalm 23:1
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So if God told you, "Hey, you're doing a good job carrying out my requests and honoring my principles, but uh, you're not getting into heaven...keep it up though!" - You would still continue to do those things? I seriously doubt it.
 
Cephus said:
The same reason most people are religious, they're just mindless, gullible sheep that do what they're told without thinking about it.
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Of those few you say aren't "mindless, gullible sheep," how would you describe their faith?
 
nota bene said:
Of those few you say aren't "mindless, gullible sheep," how would you describe their faith?
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We were speaking in the context of people who went on mission trips and just did what they were told, as opposed to people who either thought about their reasons for going and what they were asked to do as a consequence and decided on their own whether they wanted to do it, or those who simply decided not to go because it was all a sham.
 
Cephus said:
We were speaking in the context of people who went on mission trips and just did what they were told, as opposed to people who either thought about their reasons for going and what they were asked to do as a consequence and decided on their own whether they wanted to do it, or those who simply decided not to go because it was all a sham.
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My question was a simple one. Sorry you want to deflect.
 
nota bene said:
My question was a simple one. Sorry you want to deflect.
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Sorry you're trying to change the context. Go back and look, that's what we were talking about. Want to start a different discussion, start a new thread.
 
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