• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Mission Trips

My personal beliefs are that all those who are presented with the Gospel and chose to reject it will go to hell for eternity. I think there is grace for those who never heard and for children who die before they can make an informed decision. I do know that in Christianity it is God's will that every nation on earth know the Gospel and God says that He will not bring about the final judgement until the Gospel has been spread to all nations. God is the judge and as far as what I get from the Bible I know that it is His will to spread the truth, but it is also up to Him to decide how to judge those that died without knowing.

That seems to defeat the entire purpose of Jesus and the Gospel. If those who have not heard the Gospel will be given Salvation, then the existence of Jesus and the Gospel only served to allow people to choose hell. Without them, no opportunity to reject the teachings of Jesus would be provided and Salvation would be granted to far more of God's children- far more efficiently as well.

No, those who have not heard the Gospel are damned along with the billions of people who lived peaceful, generous lives prior to God's seemingly arbitrary decision to send himself down to save his creation around 2000 B.C.E.

With consideration of missionaries, it's hard not to feel some hostility toward the patronizing concept of Christians returning to Africa in order to "save" certain populations from the exceptionally hateful vindictiveness of their own God. Remember, these are populations whose economies and cultures were devastated by slavery with explicit support from the Christian God himself.

The decision to divert limited resources toward the construction of churches in locations where educational and medical facilities are in short supply should be criticized by anyone with genuine interest in the welfare of others. With as much poverty and illness present in the world, there is no excuse to prioritize the construction of a church. If Christian, or Muslim, or Taoist, or whatever deities are really as powerful as their followers claim, they would take care of their own creations instead of letting them suffer. At the very least, they wouldn't condemn otherwise pure and good people for never having been given an opportunity to grovel.
 
What is remarkable about this thread is that the atheists and homosexuals simply cannot accept that someone would do anything without a personal profit motive.

That is an enlightening illustration regarding the pathology of lacking the capacity for faith and hope.
 
Feed the body and the soul. I've been on a mission trip to Haiti. We brought food, water, clothes, medicine and built homes and churches for them. We also had a Bible school where I taught as a teacher with a translator. At the Bible school kids also got food and supplies to bring to school. The mission I went with was a compound that is active and takes volunteer groups who help out. They provide the children with an education and food, they help prop up much of the needy families in the area and they are really the only form of aid that these people get. We never denied anyone aid because they didn't want to convert. We didn't go around knocking on huts with Bible tracts asking if they would like to convert. We provide aid and help in the name of Jesus as Jesus did. From a Christian perspective there are people out there that are starving to death without proper medical care that are lost and will die and go to hell. If you treat only the physical needs while offering nothing to help the spiritual then you've only treated half of the problem.

That is a truly impressive thing to do and deserves an enormous amount of respect.
 
I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them.

The people I know who go on mission trips (and there are a good many of them I know personally), go on medical service trips to provide medicine, surgeries, vaccinations, or other medical-related services. They are Christian, but what they are doing is service to their fellow man, free of charge, and for the good of humanity. I have no problem with that whatsoever.
 
The people I know who go on mission trips (and there are a good many of them I know personally), go on medical service trips to provide medicine, surgeries, vaccinations, or other medical-related services. They are Christian, but what they are doing is service to their fellow man, free of charge, and for the good of humanity. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

And they do it, very often, a real risk to themselves.

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me."
 
If all they bring is Bibles, then yeah, it's stupid.

But if they bring food, medicine, that kind of stuff? Go for it.
 
Did you make this comment when the Muslim salesmen began moving into Africa or do you confine your hate to the Christians?

Any religion, be it Christian, Muslim or Scientologist for that matter, who preys upon people in their time of need in order to foist their idiotic beliefs on others are reprehensible human beings.
 
I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.


Darn those evil Christians, giving people food and water and aid and teaching them about sanitation and medicine, how DARE they tell people about the one thing that most changed their life for the better and offer them an opportunity to learn more about it!


:roll:


Some people need to grow the frack up and find something real to whine about. Like maybe the American pastor under sentence of death in the Middle East for daring to teach Christianity to interested parties.
 
It's just so sad to read the term "prey." It's true that I don't know dozens and dozens of missionaries, but I do know many. I think many are confusing the cause with the effect here. ;)
 
And they do it, very often, a real risk to themselves.

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me."

I suspect that alot of people confuse *missionaries* with people who go on mission trips. The former spend most of their time in foreign fields, starting up churches, or similar activities. People who go on *mission trips* are typically going for humanitarian/charity purposes, and often foot the bill for their own trips.
 
Yes. Operative word is "confuse." It's very easy to stereotype when your understanding is second-hand.

The last time I help fund a mission trip, it was a college student who has made several trips with her family and church. Dunno the denom and didn't care when I wrote the check. Do know that reaching this very small Nicaraguan village takes two days of canoeing. This girl goes simply because she thinks that shots and nutritional aid--OMG, what $100 will buy in a village such as this!!--matters.

It wasn't about "prosyletizing"; it was about helping the living "Body of Christ."
 
I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

So, you know as a matter of fact or from personal experience that none of these conversions to Christianity are legitimate and that some may not involve "dangling cheerios" in front of starving tribesmen?

Or perhaps you are making the stereotypical assumption that all Africans are starving and lack the ability to think for themselves?

Either way......not very open-minded of you, wouldn't you say?
 
Did you make this comment when the Muslim salesmen began moving into Africa or do you confine your hate to the Christians?

Where did he say he HATED Christians, Ray? SHOW IT!
 
Where did he say he HATED Christians, Ray? SHOW IT!

Since we're arguing semantics now.......After reading Ray's post that you quoted, I don't think that this was what Ray said either. I don't think he actually claimed that OP said that he "hated Christians."
 
Well, I guess if you consider the words hatred and despised synonymous.........

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians

Perhaps, even though we may have to agree to disagree on despise being synonymous with hate. I do not like proselytizing no matter who is doing it in the name of whomever. Does that mean therefore I do not like Christians? K=P can despise proselytizing and still like or love his Christian grandparents. It is proselytizing that K=P said he despised. With respect, I think some people jumped the gun (Ray of course has a huge Christ chip on his shoulder) on this and took K=P's statement to mean something he didn't say.

I don't know the statistics on it, or even if there are any, but I would be willing to bet you that most Christians don't like proselytizing either. Many would probably say they despise it, my Christian wife would be one of them. I can assure you my Christian wife doesn't despise Christians. If Buddhists continued to ring the door bell and ask about our karma. If Buddhists witnessed her at work and social gatherings she'd despise that too. So would I.
 
What is remarkable about this thread is that the atheists and homosexuals simply cannot accept that someone would do anything without a personal profit motive.

That is an enlightening illustration regarding the pathology of lacking the capacity for faith and hope.

What are you talking about? What atheists, what homosexuals and where in the hell do you get that in this thread. If anyone hates for Jesus, it's you.
 
Since we're arguing semantics now.......After reading Ray's post that you quoted, I don't think that this was what Ray said either. I don't think he actually claimed that OP said that he "hated Christians."

You'd be wrong. He quoted K=P and asked K=P he confined his hate to Christians. He did not ask if K=P confined his hate to proselytizing. That is the semantical difference. You and I may understand that. I think we both know that word play is not in Ray's repertoire.
 
Darn those evil Christians, giving people food and water and aid and teaching them about sanitation and medicine, how DARE they tell people about the one thing that most changed their life for the better and offer them an opportunity to learn more about it!


:roll:


Some people need to grow the frack up and find something real to whine about. Like maybe the American pastor under sentence of death in the Middle East for daring to teach Christianity to interested parties.

Well they are telling them to not use condoms and kill homosexuals too (Uganda). I mean, why did you leave that out? I think the real problem some have is that the church gets tax free status. If people want to spend their lives spreading the good word in distant lands or donate everything they have to the church, that's their choice.
 
The decision to divert limited resources toward the construction of churches in locations where educational and medical facilities are in short supply should be criticized by anyone with genuine interest in the welfare of others. With as much poverty and illness present in the world, there is no excuse to prioritize the construction of a church.

If churches were being built at the expense of building medical facilities, I would agree with you. Church buildings can serve more than one function, they are often used as general meeting places, school houses, etc.

Others see value in having a place to worship God, it's not really relevant that you don't. These are private organizations that are doing what they think is right.
 
My personal beliefs are that all those who are presented with the Gospel and chose to reject it will go to hell for eternity.

Soooo, if they haven't heard the Gospel they will likely go to Heaven by default. But by traveling to those communities and teaching them the Gospel you are now introducing the chance they will go to Hell for eternity?
 
Perhaps, even though we may have to agree to disagree on despise being synonymous with hate. I do not like proselytizing no matter who is doing it in the name of whomever. Does that mean therefore I do not like Christians? K=P can despise proselytizing and still like or love his Christian grandparents. It is proselytizing that K=P said he despised. With respect, I think some people jumped the gun (Ray of course has a huge Christ chip on his shoulder) on this and took K=P's statement to mean something he didn't say.

I don't know the statistics on it, or even if there are any, but I would be willing to bet you that most Christians don't like proselytizing either. Many would probably say they despise it, my Christian wife would be one of them. I can assure you my Christian wife doesn't despise Christians. If Buddhists continued to ring the door bell and ask about our karma. If Buddhists witnessed her at work and social gatherings she'd despise that too. So would I.

hate

/hāt/





Verb




Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone): "the boys hate each other".








Noun




Intense or passionate dislike: "feelings of hate".








Synonyms

verb.

detest - abhor - loathe - abominate - execrate - dislike


noun.

hatred - odium - abhorrence - detestation - loathing


The op's first sentence in his post declared that he despises Christians. Despise is clearly hatred. Personally, I don't care if he hates Christians or not, but if he doesn't, then he should have made that clear.
As for proselytizing, yeah, I tend to agree with you, but the people I know who go on mission trips, aren't proselytizing. They are providing humanitarian services in poor areas of the world.
 
Soooo, if they haven't heard the Gospel they will likely go to Heaven by default. But by traveling to those communities and teaching them the Gospel you are now introducing the chance they will go to Hell for eternity?

Well, nobody knows. We do know that Jesus commanded us to spread the gospel to all tribes of man and corners of the earth. The heaven/hell thing? :shrug: I'm not on that committee - and digsbe isn't saying he is either. In the meantime, knowing Jesus here is the best thing that can happen to you, and I would be remiss if I did not share that.
 
The op's first sentence in his post declared that he despises Christians. Despise is clearly hatred. Personally, I don't care if he hates Christians or not, but if he doesn't, then he should have made that clear.

Maybe, K=P will post again here and clear that up. It would be interesting to know if he still identifies himself as a Christian. As for the despise/hate issue it would be good to know what he meant by that.

Personally, I have hated and I didn't like it. It is an insidious feeling that grows to the point that it has the power to overcome you and define you. That little kid TJ, who was sentenced to life in prison in Ohio, is an example of what real hatred can become. I don't hate and I don't wish hatred on anyone. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't detect hatred in K=P.

I have no way of knowing, but K=P may be vocalizing his doubts about his own faith. I've certainly been that and done there. If we all agreed, if all of us had no problems with the practices of other faiths we'd all be the same faith. That ain't gonna happen. :) What we can hope for is for the members of all faiths to respect each other. Your faith doesn't need to be wrong in order that mine can be right. That's perhaps the main reason people really don't like proselytizing.

I remember a few years ago when a group of Baptists (SBA or whatever, I do not remember) became so fed up with bell ringing, bicycle riding proselytizers that they flew to Utah to ring door bells and hand out religious tracts! Who can blame those Baptists for feeling frustrated with bell ringers? No one likes it. I remember the event because I thought it had the elements of a good comedy.

As for proselytizing, yeah, I tend to agree with you, but the people I know who go on mission trips, aren't proselytizing. They are providing humanitarian services in poor areas of the world.

Certainly great work is done by many people in the name of their faith. It is my belief and my practice that when I contribute money or effort to needy people, the intent and intrinsic good is diminished if the money or effort must be connected to me or to my religion.
 
Back
Top Bottom