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Torture

Gathomas88 said:
...I actually suspect that a lot of the reason why the "enhanced interrogation" techniques tended to not produce much in the way of information was that they didn't go any where near as far as the real thing was supposed to.
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We should ask them if they or the ones in the rendition countries shoved a broom handle up the anus of suspects... in order to force them to divulge what they know.

If it didn't, maybe they should have tried two, or more?
 
rathi said:
There are always hypothetical circumstances in which torture or pretty much any depraved conduct may be justified. However, the practical consequences of legitimizing torture on a societal level are always monstrous. There has never been "ticking time bomb" scenario resolved by torture ever, while the pages of history are filled with horrible suffering inflicted on the innocent. The ability of torture to obtain useful information is extremely dubious, while its primary effectiveness is in coercing confessions or satisfying sadistic desires. The very act itself promotes a dehumanizing mindset which inevitably leads to atrocities. Killing is an unfortunate necessity of governmental policy, torture has no validity.
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This, exactly.
 
Torture prevents death therefore is necessary. Even though there are incredible stories of torure the majority of those tortures were done by governments on their own people, China, North Korea and Nazi Germany leading the pack. It sickens me when I read the objections to water boardings (which is not torture) by Americans that typically have never served their country in any form that may be considered dangerous. America does not hang people by meathooks like the Nazis, they don't put humans in cages then insert raw meat up their butt holes and let rats in the cage to eat their way the the human body. There was a book written long ago I believe called "The History of Torture" and I have never forgotten reading it 40 years ago. It is gut wrenching to learn what humans not only do to other humans but how they derive pleasure from watching it.
To those that sit back and permit wars while protesting "torture" ask the families fo those that never retutn what the word "torture" means to them.
 
Ikari said:
Possibly. But the real problem is any scenario we can conceive to say "it's justified here" is all made under the pretense of hindsight where we know the individual is responsible, knows how to stop it, and refuses. The truth of the matter is, we don't have the gift of clairvoyance and because of that when we torture someone, we don't always know if that person could ever give information or prevent a terrible event from occurring. You may just end up torturing a bunch of people and the city still blows up anyway.
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True, and a good point. Torturing people is definitely not something I would like to resort to, but I think it is still a possibility in very limited circumstances.
 
rhinefire said:
Torture prevents death therefore is necessary. Even though there are incredible stories of torure the majority of those tortures were done by governments on their own people, China, North Korea and Nazi Germany leading the pack. It sickens me when I read the objections to water boardings (which is not torture) by Americans that typically have never served their country in any form that may be considered dangerous. America does not hang people by meathooks like the Nazis, they don't put humans in cages then insert raw meat up their butt holes and let rats in the cage to eat their way the the human body. There was a book written long ago I believe called "The History of Torture" and I have never forgotten reading it 40 years ago. It is gut wrenching to learn what humans not only do to other humans but how they derive pleasure from watching it.
To those that sit back and permit wars while protesting "torture" ask the families fo those that never retutn what the word "torture" means to them.
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If waterboarding (AKA drowning torture) is not torture are you willing to be videotaped having it done to you to prove it?
 
I challenge anyone to name a nation that uses torture that has an overall good human rights record (except for the torture) . So far, no one has named one. (in other threads where I posted this challenge.)

cpwill said:
:shrug: well, if you buy the idea that one is responsible for the actions one knows will be taken by allies, or that enhanced interrogation is torture, then I would say the United States of America.
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I challenge anyone to name a nation, besides the USA, that uses torture that has an overall good human rights record (except for the torture) . So far, no one has named one. (in other threads where I posted this challenge.)
 
Hard Truth said:
I challenge anyone to name a nation that uses torture that has an overall good human rights record (except for the torture) . So far, no one has named one. (in other threads where I posted this challenge.)


I challenge anyone to name a nation, besides the USA, that uses torture that has an overall good human rights record (except for the torture) . So far, no one has named one. (in other threads where I posted this challenge.)
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France.
 
cpwill said:
France.
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France may meet my criteria, since is not known for having a bad human rights record, with the exception of the widespread use of torture during the Algerian war. On the other hnd, it does officially ban torture, but like the uSA still use renditions to have it done by others.


"the UN Committee Against Torture's...... first subject of concern for the Committee is the fact that, though France criminalizes torture and acts of barbarity and violence, it has not brought its legislation into "strict conformity" with the definition of torture provided by the Torture Convention (art. 1). In particular, the Committee notes that such a definition would provide the clarity and foreseeability required of criminal law and satisfy the Convention's obligation to distinguish acts of torture committed, tolerated or instigated by public officials or others acting under color of law from acts of violence committed by non-state actors. The Committee also repeats its recommendation that France make torture an imprescriptible crime.."

"France, Germany, and the United Kingdom use foreign intelligence obtained under torture in the fight against terrorism, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today....."
June 2010
France/Germany/United Kingdom: Wrong Message on Torture | Human Rights Watch
 
Hard Truth said:
If waterboarding (AKA drowning torture) is not torture are you willing to be videotaped having it done to you to prove it?
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Rediculous reply.
 
Knowledge=power said:
Is it ever justifiable in any circumstance?
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Of course. The rights of the one do not outweigh the needs of the many. If that one person is withholding information that will save the lives of even two people, do what you have to do in order to save them. Especially since this person knowing means he is very likely involved in the potential deaths of those others.
 
Knowledge=power said:
Is it ever justifiable in any circumstance?
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I think so.

Left-wing anti-liberty activists, rapists, terrorists etc.. They should all be tortured to death in public to make an example out of them. And no, by "tortured" I don't mean pouring a bottle of water on their face. I mean blow torches on genitals, breaking bones with baseball bats and pliers crushing teeth. That kind of torture.
 
Surtr said:
Of course. The rights of the one do not outweigh the needs of the many. If that one person is withholding information that will save the lives of even two people, do what you have to do in order to save them. Especially since this person knowing means he is very likely involved in the potential deaths of those others.
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I agree. I doubt anyone who currently opposes torture wouldn't instantly change his/her mind if it came down to their families being endangered.
 
Muhammed said:
I think so.

Left-wing anti-liberty activists, rapists, terrorists etc.. They should all be tortured to death in public to make an example out of them. And no, by "tortured" I don't mean pouring a bottle of water on their face. I mean blow torches on genitals, breaking bones with baseball bats and pliers crushing teeth. That kind of torture.
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That is pretty extreme. What has led you to feel this way? Just curious.
 
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