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Would The Universe Exist If Not For Mankind?

rhinefire

rhinefire

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I don't intend to parallel the "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it really fall" stuff but I ask the following; As incomprehensibly enormous as the universe is, if there were no intelligent life in such a phenomenon then why would it exist? Taking it to the final truth that the earth will someday be destroyed, what then? Why create inteligence only to have it destoryed? Are we, mankind destined to do something so amazing in this universe that right now, today we have no idea what it is?
 
There's an awful lot of "if"s in there. IF the universe exists for the purpose of creating intelligent life. IF there isn't a purpose past intelligent life for which humans are only a transitional step. IF the universe has a purpose at all. IF there haven't been other intelligent lifeforms in the universe before. IF there aren't any others right now. Why must the universe have intelligent life in it? Is being intelligent really as amazing as we think it is?

"Why create intelligence only to have it destroyed?" Is our existence really so abhorrent if it is temporary? And besides, it is only our human form that is temporary. We are made out of atoms that exploded out of supernovas billions of years ago. And when our planet is destroyed by an expanding sun, our atoms will be released back into the universe.

Even if we had some grander purpose, like in Childhood's End, I don't see how we could ever know what it was until we were there.
 
It would exist- it just would not be conceptualized.
 
I do not presume that we are the only intelligent life in the universe nor that out lives have some greater meaning in relation to the universe than any other life. My position is that only that which has some utility/effect to someone is relevant, but that does not define purpose.
 
The world doesn't cease to exist when I do, so why would the universe see to exist of all of us did?? We are not required for existence to...well...exist.
 
Someday the universe itself will expire. So if there are parallel universes they too will cease and so "what's it all about Alfie"? It would make sense if these "universes" as we conveniently call them recreated themselves every gazillion milleniums. The issue of this existance to date is in my mind, mankind is intelligent and the mathematical probability of intelligence elswhere is favorable, Are we to someday acutally interact? If so, why, to accomplish what? This planet is forever changed because of our impact on it and to it, The moon amd Mars are also inhabited by mansoif we keep it up what else will man change? To me the universe is here to accomodate mankind and other intelligent life but to what end? Stay tuned.
 
rhinefire said:
I don't intend to parallel the "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it really fall" stuff but I ask the following; As incomprehensibly enormous as the universe is, if there were no intelligent life in such a phenomenon then why would it exist?
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Because it exists

rhinefire said:
Taking it to the final truth that the earth will someday be destroyed, what then? Why create inteligence only to have it destoryed? Are we, mankind destined to do something so amazing in this universe that right now, today we have no idea what it is?
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Humanity has a lot of potential, we could very well do something so amazing in this universe that we cannot currently conceive of the magnitude of such. But even if not, there's no reason for the universe to exist only to placate us. While it is true that all that lives must die, it doesn't mean that living is worthless.
 
rhinefire said:
I don't intend to parallel the "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it really fall" stuff but I ask the following; As incomprehensibly enormous as the universe is, if there were no intelligent life in such a phenomenon then why would it exist? Taking it to the final truth that the earth will someday be destroyed, what then? Why create inteligence only to have it destoryed? Are we, mankind destined to do something so amazing in this universe that right now, today we have no idea what it is?
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Even though it is an IF, it is a lottery tickety I'd like to play to assume this: Given the size of the universe, there are more than likely other planets which harbor life, in fact there are more than likely millions of other life harboring planets, with sentient, intelligent beings, who are attempting to comprehend the exact same thing we are.

The universe is not exclusive to earth and to human beings, it is solipsistic to think so.
 
Assuming we're the only beings in the universe with the ability of conceptualization....than I agree with a post above about it existing just not conceptualized.

Also, we're but a blip on the history book of the universe. A mere paragraph...our existence doesn't make or break its existence.
 
Evidence suggests the universe existed before life evolved. That settles the question for me.
 
I believe it only reflects poorly on the limitations of man that he has trouble contemplating that for which he has no direct evidence or knowledge. I believe many things are possible without mankind, and perhaps even more likely, without mankind as we know it.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I believe it only reflects poorly on the limitations of man that he has trouble contemplating that for which he has no direct evidence or knowledge.
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What, like God?

Mankind contemplates all the time. But there is a difference between contemplation and measurable facts.
 
spanky said:
What, like God?

Mankind contemplates all the time. But there is a difference between contemplation and measurable facts.
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Perhaps like God/god, but not necessarily so - but only the great thinkers actually contemplate that which can't be proven or measured and we are indebted to them for the advancement in society we enjoy on a regular basis.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Perhaps like God/god, but not necessarily so - but only the great thinkers actually contemplate that which can't be proven or measured and we are indebted to them for the advancement in society we enjoy on a regular basis.
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What advancement is that?
 
spanky said:
What advancement is that?
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Check out any science fiction from decades ago, check out Leonardo Da Vinci, check out NASA, check out medical research facilities - these are people who can envision what isn't now, what seems impossible, but just might work, without statistical proof or measurable data.
 
Sorry, when you said "great thinkers" i thought you meant philosophers and religious thinkers.

Anyway, are you suggesting the reason we have nuclear submarines today is due to "20,000 leagues Under the Sea"?

Verne may have envisioned it but it was necessity and a whole lot of engineers that made it a reality.
 
spanky said:
Sorry, when you said "great thinkers" i thought you meant philosophers and religious thinkers.

Anyway, are you suggesting the reason we have nuclear submarines today is due to "20,000 leagues Under the Sea"?

Verne may have envisioned it but it was necessity and a whole lot of engineers that made it a reality.
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Without vision, there is nothing.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Without vision, there is nothing.
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Great ideas are a dime a dozen. I have people bring me business ideas all the time. My first questions are, how are you going to finance it, how are you going to engineer it, how are you going to build it, how are you going to market it and how are you going to make a profit.

Jules Verne made a lot of money writing books...but he never built a submarine.
 
The universe would not just be non-conceptualized or unobserved it would not exist in the same way without conscious contemplation or interaction. Without the senses a creature provides there is no seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting or thinking about anything. The potential for those sensations exist within physical creation but have no meaning, until realized. So the universe preexisted biological life and will possibly exist beyond it but its meaning and substance will inevitably be different. It would be a blob of unconscious material and energy.
 
spanky said:
Great ideas are a dime a dozen. I have people bring me business ideas all the time. My first questions are, how are you going to finance it, how are you going to engineer it, how are you going to build it, how are you going to market it and how are you going to make a profit.

Jules Verne made a lot of money writing books...but he never built a submarine.
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And if all of mankind was like you, we'd still be living in our father's caves. What's a dime a dozen are people who claim it can't be done - what's special is people who say it can.
 
CanadaJohn said:
And if all of mankind was like you, we'd still be living in our father's caves. What's a dime a dozen are people who claim it can't be done - what's special is people who say it can.
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And if mankind was like you we'd be in that cave staring off into space with the deer in the headlights look.

Let me tell who the "visionaries" in this world, the people who can take a vision and get things done.
 
spanky said:
And if mankind was like you we'd be in that cave staring off into space with the deer in the headlights look.

Let me tell who the "visionaries" in this world, the people who can take a vision and get things done.
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And you continue to miss the meaning of my original post, so much so that how you feel defensive and perhaps insulted by my subsequent posts. Of course, you are correct, that visions are useless if they can't or aren't actioned, but my point was there's nothing to action without the dreamers and thinkers who see beyond what's in front of them today to what could be years from now.
 
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