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If I were to wake up in Heaven

When you finally see the face of God (Catholics call it the "beatific vision") you will understand the infinity of God's mercy and understand truly that everyone in Hell deserves to be there.

God's beauty and grace is so vast that to reject it is madness. If you insist on rejecting the offerings of the author of all existence...OK.
 
ChuckBerry said:
When you finally see the face of God (Catholics call it the "beatific vision") you will understand the infinity of God's mercy and understand truly that everyone in Hell deserves to be there.

God's beauty and grace is so vast that to reject it is madness. If you insist on rejecting the offerings of the author of all existence...OK.
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So gods face brainwashes you? That sounds horrible.
 
Moderator's Warning:
A reminder... this the Religious Discussion Forum, and it is under a special ruleset. "God bashing" and "Religion bashing" go to Philosophy, not here, as does questions about God's existence or assertions of proof of his non-existence, and similar stuff. This forum is for the civil discussion of theistic issues, and posts that violate that compact usually result in infraction points and threadbans. Bear this in mind before you hit "post"...
 
Henrin said:
I always thought that was silly. A child believes god is evil, so instead of convincing him otherwise god sends him to hell to burn for all eternity. Yeah, nothing like proving the child right, lol.
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Wait a minute--how many children believe that God is evil? I've never known a kid who thought that...but I wonder where that notion would have come from.
 
nota bene said:
Don't forget Dante's Inferno.

For a visual interpretation, click on the third panel of this Bosch tryptych: The Garden of Earthly Delights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Best book ever about the subject, IMHO is "Good Omens". It's hilarious.

Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch (1990) is a World Fantasy Award nominated[1] novel written in collaboration between the English authors Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.

The book is a comedy about the birth of the son of Satan, the coming of the End Times and the attempts of the angel Aziraphale and the demon Crowley to avert them, having become accustomed to their comfortable situations in the human world. A subplot features the gathering of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse—War, Famine, Pollution (Pestilence having retired in 1936 following the discovery of penicillin), and Death—the last of whom is characterised in a manner reminiscent of the personification of Death in Pratchett's Discworld novels and calls himself Azrael before his final exit. In 2003, the novel was listed at number 68 on the BBC's survey The Big Read.[2]
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More, with a plot summary here.
 
nota bene said:
Wait a minute--how many children believe that God is evil? I've never known a kid who thought that...but I wonder where that notion would have come from.
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"Children" of god.

The bible.

Can't say anything more apparently.
 
Henrin said:
"Children" of god.

The bible.

Can't say anything more apparently.
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The God concept is not something children are born with. It must be learned and thus it is taught in most instances by parents, family and friends. As such children do not believe anything until they are trained/socialized into a belief system. The belief system is normally the one practiced by the parents, etc. Hindu children don't suddenly believe in Judaism or become Rastafarians. They become Hindus. And so it goes in each culture and in each religion. God is not anything until the concept is learned. Thus children do not initially believe "God" is good or "God" is evil.
 
Risky Thicket said:
The God concept is not something children are born with. It must be learned and thus it is taught in most instances by parents, family and friends. As such children do not believe anything until they are trained/socialized into a belief system. The belief system is normally the one practiced by the parents, etc. Hindu children don't suddenly believe in Judaism or become Rastafarians. They become Hindus. And so it goes in each culture and in each religion. God is not anything until the concept is learned. Thus children do not initially believe "God" is good or "God" is evil.
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A Child of "god" Aka everyone on the planet is a child of god.

I thought religious people said this stuff all the time...

If one of his children considers him evil for whatever reason than apparently the punishment is burning forever.
 
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nota bene said:
What's the significance of the name "Crowley"?
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It was initially "Crawley" until Crawley changed his name to "Crowley". Being an Angel of Hell Crowley is cursed with even the smallest things. He has the power to manifest anything he wants on earth and fancies driving a Phaeton, as I recall. Problem is, his car only has an 8-track player and no matter what 8-track album he selects, within seconds it ALWAYS becomes "We Are the Champions" by Queen.
 
Risky Thicket said:
It was initially "Crawley" until Crawley changed his name to "Crowley". Being an Angel of Hell Crowley is cursed with even the smallest things. He has the power to manifest anything he wants on earth and fancies driving a Phaeton, as I recall. Problem is, his car only has an 8-track player and no matter what 8-track album he selects, within seconds it ALWAYS becomes "We Are the Champions" by Queen.
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I see what you mean about hell. :lol:
 
Henrin said:
A Child of "god" Aka everyone on the planet is a child of god.

I thought religious people said this stuff all the time...

If one of his children considers him evil for whatever reason than apparently the punishment is burning forever.
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It would be difficult for me to defend as I don't accept it. I understand that many Christians do. I was raised a Christian and I can accept that Christians may believe in that manner. I always had trouble with it myself, but that is me. Why be bothered if people believe it? To each his own.

From my perspective we are all "God". Evil is the absence of love. In that way I don't see the two beliefs that dissimilar. In fact, as confusing as it may appear, it is my belief that when we are born into this world we are as close to pure love as we will be for most, if not all, of our life. We unlearn, if you like, and we struggle, each of us in our own way, on our own paths, to return to the pure love we were born with.
 
nota bene said:
I see what you mean about hell. :lol:
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Yeah, right? We all liked the song maybe the first 10 times we heard it, but now? LOL! It would be sheer hell to be thinking of something else when you begin to play it only to have the song become "We Are the Champions" every damned time, time after time.

In the book, Hell's minions screw up the birth of the anti-christ and babies get switched in error at the hospital (which also confuses the hounds of hell). Why wouldn't that happen? It's hell on earth for them, right?

It is a wonderful book, a great read and very well done.
 
I like the way you put that. I mean the part about "unlearning" and yearning to return to that safety and love.
 
Henrin said:
Yeah, which apparently means I have to respect an evil SOB. That is just not going to happen.
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You misunderstand the circumstances. Consider if you were God. You create the world. You create creatures on it, animals, plants, bugs, and the like. Now consider you create people. A special race that you make in your image. You love these people. You take care of them, building a special paradise just for them. You put all the other creatures under their control. In exchange for creating them and giving them everything they need you ask but one small thing. What's the first thing they do? They spit in your face. Despite that you don't damn them straight to hell like they deserve you forgive them and give them the hope of a savor who will reverse their sin. You then lower yourself by making yourself human and walking around in the form of a human, your son, Jesus. You die for the people you have creating that repeatedly break your laws and destroy what you have worked so hard to create. You die so that they can come and live with you in eternity. Not just any death either. You are killed for no reason, a violent and bloody death where the people spit on you and mock you by crowning you with thorns. When all this is finished what do the people do? Some praise you. Some convert. Some turn away from the way of destruction and turn their back on the devil and come to you. But most? they pretend to care but after a few weeks, months or even years they go back to the way they were. Many scorn you and say you dont exist or even worse call you evil and hateful, or worship false gods who are no where near as glorious.

To me it's a wonder he doesn't rain fire from the sky and turn us all to ash. If I had to put up with all of us I know it wouldn't long before I got fed up and just wiped the earth clean and started again.
 
ChuckBerry said:
You need to drop your ego Henrin, or death is going to be an absolutely terrifying experience for you.
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I'm not scared of death and I don't believe in god. If he exists and he accepts me or not is his choice. If hell exists as well and he decides that is where I should be that is again his choice.
 
ChuckBerry said:
You need to drop your ego Henrin, or death is going to be an absolutely terrifying experience for you.
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And you are thrilled about going into that good night?

It seems to me that what you are using Chuck, is the "hell threat". It's an overused and inaccurate assumption that by definition won't work on someone who doesn't believe in the premise. It's no different than someone telling you that if you refuse to wear an asafetida bag that you will be cursed by a sorceress. Would you then wear it?

"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." ~ Peter Tosh
 
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Henrin said:
I'm not scared of death and I don't believe in god. If he exists and he accepts me or not is his choice. If hell exists as well and he decides that is where I should be that is again his choice.
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The interesting thing about the Christian gospel is that salvation and damnation are "thrust" upon no one. The only choice involved is the choice made by us as individuals....to accept....or not to accept. Grace has been given freely........but sadly, not all will accept the gift. In fact, if we are to believe the very words of Christ........relatively few will willingly receive it. :shrug:
 
FluffyNinja said:
The interesting thing about the Christian gospel is that salvation and damnation are "thrust" upon no one. The only choice involved is the choice made by us as individuals....to accept....or not to accept. Grace has been given freely........but sadly, not all will accept the gift. In fact, if we are to believe the very words of Christ........relatively few will willingly receive it. :shrug:
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Not how I see it at all. According to them I either buy what they are selling or I get to burn forever. I'm already not buying into the whole thing, but threats are not how you are going to get me to see the light. It is however a damn good way to tell me I was right.
 
skreetsmart said:
I would immediately begin to protest for all the souls in hell and would probably try to form a small army of dissenters who want to take the tyrant down ;)
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The being you know as "God" is merely an interdimensional alien who has not yet had to reckon with humanity. One day we shall find a way to reach him and with our superior technology and buttressed by hate we shall cast him down and render justice upon him. Wait till we wipe the smirk off his face as techno-storm troopers break into his palace and slaughter his angels, the vanguard of the alien angelic host.
 
Would you know my name, if I saw you in Heaven?
 
Mathematician said:
Your implication holds, thankfully because the conditional will never be satisfied. With that attitude, if you wake up anywhere other than earth, it's going to be hell.
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If you believe in the Calvinist version of Christianity there will be plenty of good, God-fearing believers ending up in Hell. If you ain't pre-destined for salvation there's nothing your faith or good works can do to get you into Heaven.
 
If I woke up in Heaven, it would just be yet another illusion I'd need to debunk in order to re-realize my freedom. Even a blissful place is a prison, especially if you have to spend eternity there under someone else's rules. At least on Earth I am aware of suffering which leads me to knowledge that this reality is an illusion; in Heaven the task would be made far more difficult because it would feel good. Heaven is no closer or farther from Divinity than Earth is. No thanks.
 
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