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Being Social

Wake

Wake

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I've always been reticent, quiet, and observant. I've always hated small talk. Meaningless social talk about incredibly trivial and boring things has always been a turn-off. Talking about philosophy, science, and politics has always been what gets me talking, instead of "Hey, how you doing," "So she was like...," and "what's up." Most of my family members from my pov have been social, yet dumb. You try to start up a conversation with them about C.S. Lewis, photosynthesis, capillary action or nihilism... and they look like deers stuck in the headlights.

Lately I've begun to understand that these rather vapid social discussions are a bit important. Like shallow yet firendly tweeting among these scoial creatures called humans, apparently this kind of talk builds relationships and meaningful connections. The typical "So how are you doing or how was your day" would turn me off because it was so shallow and boring. ...I'd be so bored and unchallenged by them that, when at family get-togethers, you'd typically see me go to a quiet room with a book. Walking into the fray with a social smile talking about the same damned little issues was like... Hell. In order to get my fix of information and intellectual discussion I spent most of my communication... here. I can't get this kind of talk with my pothead cousins, my sister, my aunts, etc.

It's important to build sincere, meaningful relationships, so it seems trying to be social and friendly is the way to go. It's damned difficult, but I'm adapting. I hate the chatterboxes, the manic attention whores who just have to have every conceivable holiday party at their house, or the social bubblehead who can't stop talking. All my life I've been damned smart, but anti-social. Only a small handful of people I've been very openly social and chatty with. Perhaps it's because I've always been very distrustful and skeptical, hauling around an invisible shell that protects me from emotional pain. Having an emotionally abusive, selfish, and cold father'll do that to you. He was a smart computer engineer he brought in the money... but unlike your parent he'd never do anything with his kids. I remember... fishing with him once when I was 7. That's it. His daughter is emotionally scarred, and married at a young age to get the hell away from him.

I guess it's about trying to open my immense shell slowly but surely, trying to trust people... In a way since we've gotten away from my father and out of that icy Hell I've gradually become more social. The next step is actually getting into the mix, talking with people and starting up earnest yat banal discussions. It's rare to find a smart man or woman irl who actually gives a damn about intellectual issues. My aunt has parties and social gatherings at her house all of the time, and is a bit powerful when it comes to being social... but try talking with her about even the slightest medical or mathematical knowledge and all you'll get is a blank stare.

Being social—actually open and friendly—is something in need of practice. I figured going to parties and actually starting to talk with people will make me feel more comfortable and apt at being social.

What do you guys think? Want to share some advice or suggestions?
 
What was the question again? My eyes got bleary and started to water.
 
I think the small talk is okay to break the ice...to get conversations flowing...etc. Once a certain rapport has been established, that's the time to steer toward other topics of interest. But, you should attempt to find out what those interests might be, first. Jumping right into C.S. Lewis and the like might be a bit heavy.

Keep practicing.
 
Mycroft said:
I think the small talk is okay to break the ice...to get conversations flowing...etc. Once a certain rapport has been established, that's the time to steer toward other topics of interest. But, you should attempt to find out what those interests might be, first. Jumping right into C.S. Lewis and the like might be a bit heavy.

Keep practicing.
Click to expand...

That's good advice. Thanks. First start with small talk, and try to find outlets for somewhat deeper discussion.
 
I would advise changing your perspective on social interaction first. If you consider it shallow and vapid you'll likely fail to branch out socially. If all you want is intellectual conversation then seek out only intellectual circles.

On other words: You'll either need to change perspective, or change focus. Being social doesn't have to mean behaving as those in your current circle behave; it can easily mean finding a circle you can comfortably fit into and in which you can develop bonds.

As to the other point, I don't know necessarily that you can pinpoint your dad's behavior as the primary reason for your approach/lack of social interaction. From what you posted prior to that paragraph it honestly sounds like social interaction on the most basic of levels is beyond you because of the emotional aspects involved. You prefer cold, sterile topics and "don't get" the more lively, emotion driven topics. I'm guessing it's the emotion that confuses you or irritates you more than the "shallow and vapid" nature of the conversation. Now THAT could be because you've pulled yourself inside a shell, but it could also be a sign of ASD/Aspergers, or any other number of issues.

But if it IS because of your dad, then it means the behavior is learned and not inherent, and that means you can (with help) retrain some of your behaviors....but only if you want to (and that goes back to changing perspective).
 
Wake said:
That's good advice. Thanks. First start with small talk, and try to find outlets for somewhat deeper discussion.
Click to expand...

And then, if you find someone who can understand, bring out the big guns and have fun with C.S. Lewis.
 
tessaesque said:
I would advise changing your perspective on social interaction first. If you consider it shallow and vapid you'll likely fail to branch out socially. If all you want is intellectual conversation then seek out only intellectual circles.

On other words: You'll either need to change perspective, or change focus. Being social doesn't have to mean behaving as those in your current circle behave; it can easily mean finding a circle you can comfortably fit into and in which you can develop bonds.

As to the other point, I don't know necessarily that you can pinpoint your dad's behavior as the primary reason for your approach/lack of social interaction. From what you posted prior to that paragraph it honestly sounds like social interaction on the most basic of levels is beyond you because of the emotional aspects involved. You prefer cold, sterile topics and "don't get" the more lively, emotion driven topics. I'm guessing it's the emotion that confuses you or irritates you more than the "shallow and vapid" nature of the conversation. Now THAT could be because you've pulled yourself inside a shell, but it could also be a sign of ASD/Aspergers, or any other number of issues.

But if it IS because of your dad, then it means the behavior is learned and not inherent, and that means you can (with help) retrain some of your behaviors....but only if you want to (and that goes back to changing perspective).
Click to expand...

It's not that it's beyond me or that I don't get the emotional aspects; I certainly do. It's just that I don't like the small talk, or that being social seems to demand that you be open, chatty, and friendly. I'm guessing it's a learned behavior from my father, because I always had to walk on pins and needles all of the time. In short, he screwed us up a bit. It affected my sister differently, in that she's very headstrong and commando-ish; she's far more impatient and angrier than me but she keeps it pent-up. Me, well, I learned to distrust and fear... scared to open myself up. I could never get my father to talk with me about personal stuff or social things. He was immensely controlling, too. Whereas my sister became incredibly independant and stubborn with a modified shell, I became very antisocial with a great shell. Dad would yell at you or hit you if you pressed to have some sort of emotional discussion with him.

I understand emotion. I just get bored, reticent, and am typically protected by my shell. It seems too like it's a matter of trusting people and being comfortable with talking with them... and not having to fear being yelled at, being snarled at, or being hit.
 
Take your judgment out of conversation and have a more benign opinion of things and you'll become socially accepted.
 
grip said:
Take your judgment out of conversation and have a more benign opinion of things and you'll become socially accepted.
Click to expand...

I can try that. I do get judgmental because I observe people and understand them quickly. Perhaps wisdom is knowing what to overlook instead of usually being negative...
 
Wake said:
I can try that. I do get judgmental because I observe people and understand them quickly. Perhaps wisdom is knowing what to overlook instead of usually being negative...
Click to expand...

If you show acceptance of people, even with their faults they'll accept you. That is true wisdom. You are smart but be more of a mystery. It takes practice don't expect immediate results or to be perfect, just happier with your social projection.
 
I think the beginning is taking an interest in what others might want to discuss, no matter how banal to you, rather than insisting others have an interest in your preferred discussions before you talk to them.
 
Wake said:
What do you guys think? Want to share some advice or suggestions?
Click to expand...

Well what I would say is that it is important in normal human interaction to be able to engage in these forms of small talk; though I understand well the aversion to it. I too will primarily talk of philosophy, science, politics, or literature; subjects of more academic standing. I've been party to some excessively inane conversations, I tend to tune out rather than subject myself to the stupid. I was hanging out with some friends, a few whom are gay. One of their friends (also gay) started in on a conversation between the difference between the vagina and colon...which already wasn't a good direction. But they seemed utterly amazed at the difference. I stared off and didn't comment; but the one dude (I had just met him that day) when alone with me in the kitchen asked if I was uncomfortable around gay people. I had to tell him no, but that the conversation was exceptionally insipid, vapid and juvenile. He didn't take to kindly, and I likely shouldn't have been so blunt. But it was one of the dumbest conversations I had ever endured.

Social grace, though, seems to be a valued commodity. I don't have much of it personally as social phobia is not conductive to social grace; but the point remains. Sometimes you have to at the very least feign some interest even in the most pedestrian of topics in order to avoid confusions, accusations, and confrontations. Humans being particularly social in nature means that for a normal individual, they'll need to learn to handle small talk...even inane small talk.
 
I was once very introverted and shy, now most would consider me an extrovert.

From my experience, the most important concept to grasp to develop social skills is that one must genuinely like people.

You have to become a student of humanity - i.e. people have to fascinate you. You must be genuinely interested in everyone you are conversing with, and what makes them tick.

Figuring that out is quite a task, even for the most intelligent among us. Humanity is more complex than the works of C.S. Lewis, than photosynthesis, than capillary action, than nihilism, or than anything else you might read about.

Wake said:
I've always been reticent, quiet, and observant. I've always hated small talk. Meaningless social talk about incredibly trivial and boring things has always been a turn-off. Talking about philosophy, science, and politics has always been what gets me talking, instead of "Hey, how you doing," "So she was like...," and "what's up." Most of my family members from my pov have been social, yet dumb. You try to start up a conversation with them about C.S. Lewis, photosynthesis, capillary action or nihilism... and they look like deers stuck in the headlights.

Lately I've begun to understand that these rather vapid social discussions are a bit important. Like shallow yet firendly tweeting among these scoial creatures called humans, apparently this kind of talk builds relationships and meaningful connections. The typical "So how are you doing or how was your day" would turn me off because it was so shallow and boring. ...I'd be so bored and unchallenged by them that, when at family get-togethers, you'd typically see me go to a quiet room with a book. Walking into the fray with a social smile talking about the same damned little issues was like... Hell. In order to get my fix of information and intellectual discussion I spent most of my communication... here. I can't get this kind of talk with my pothead cousins, my sister, my aunts, etc.

It's important to build sincere, meaningful relationships, so it seems trying to be social and friendly is the way to go. It's damned difficult, but I'm adapting. I hate the chatterboxes, the manic attention whores who just have to have every conceivable holiday party at their house, or the social bubblehead who can't stop talking. All my life I've been damned smart, but anti-social. Only a small handful of people I've been very openly social and chatty with. Perhaps it's because I've always been very distrustful and skeptical, hauling around an invisible shell that protects me from emotional pain. Having an emotionally abusive, selfish, and cold father'll do that to you. He was a smart computer engineer he brought in the money... but unlike your parent he'd never do anything with his kids. I remember... fishing with him once when I was 7. That's it. His daughter is emotionally scarred, and married at a young age to get the hell away from him.

I guess it's about trying to open my immense shell slowly but surely, trying to trust people... In a way since we've gotten away from my father and out of that icy Hell I've gradually become more social. The next step is actually getting into the mix, talking with people and starting up earnest yat banal discussions. It's rare to find a smart man or woman irl who actually gives a damn about intellectual issues. My aunt has parties and social gatherings at her house all of the time, and is a bit powerful when it comes to being social... but try talking with her about even the slightest medical or mathematical knowledge and all you'll get is a blank stare.

Being social—actually open and friendly—is something in need of practice. I figured going to parties and actually starting to talk with people will make me feel more comfortable and apt at being social.

What do you guys think? Want to share some advice or suggestions?
Click to expand...
 
parents usually dont like discussing teh meaning of the life with you.they mostly belong to another dimension and think you are already the meaning of their life.

so dont try to be friend with them..
 
Wake said:
I've
I guess it's about trying to open my immense shell slowly but surely, trying to trust people... In a way since we've gotten away from my father and out of that icy Hell I've gradually become more social. The next step is actually getting into the mix, talking with people and starting up earnest yat banal discussions. It's rare to find a smart man or woman irl who actually gives a damn about intellectual issues. My aunt has parties and social gatherings at her house all of the time, and is a bit powerful when it comes to being social... but try talking with her about even the slightest medical or mathematical knowledge and all you'll get is a blank stare.

Being social—actually open and friendly—is something in need of practice. I figured going to parties and actually starting to talk with people will make me feel more comfortable and apt at being social.

What do you guys think? Want to share some advice or suggestions?
Click to expand...

I've never learned to be much of a socialite, and always prefer the company of one person to two or more. It's not that I don't like people- it's that I tend to like people at a serious level, as opposed to a surface level. I'm not usually very good at small talk, because I like to really know a person well. I cut to the chase, because I am really interested in sharing thoughts, as opposed to nicities. Yeah, it makes me a little hard to take at times, but I figure anyone who can take it, is good for spending time with. :) For me, it's about quality, not quantity. Even on my job, I like to know my patients, and I like to relate to them at a deeper level than just me doing my job, and them being my patient.

So I guess I'm not really offering you any good advice, but am saying there's nothing wrong with being a serious-minded person, but I would suggest you let down your defenses a little, and let people get close to you. :)
 
I feel you, I often cannot stomach small talk and will throw out a controversial statement to get things going in order to avoid it.

"Hey whats new with you?" "Guns, lots of guns."
 
Medusa said:
parents usually dont like discussing teh meaning of the life with you.they mostly belong to another dimension and think you are already the meaning of their life.

so dont try to be friend with them..
Click to expand...

When you are young, that is likely true to a certain extent. When you are older, and mature to a similar level as your parents, they can be very interesting to discuss the meaning of life with. My mom is an extremely intelligent woman, and even with her strict religious beliefs, she has become one of my favorite people to have serious discussions with, because in spite of her beliefs, she still questions her own beliefs, and she likes to get my take on matters of the big questions.
 
lizzie said:
When you are young, that is likely true to a certain extent. When you are older, and mature to a similar level as your parents, they can be very interesting to discuss the meaning of life with. My mom is an extremely intelligent woman, and even with her strict religious beliefs, she has become one of my favorite people to have serious discussions with, because in spite of her beliefs, she still questions her own beliefs, and she likes to get my take on matters of the big questions.
Click to expand...

you are lucky lizzie.
 
Lachean said:
I feel you, I often cannot stomach small talk and will throw out a controversial statement to get things going in order to avoid it.

"Hey whats new with you?" "Guns, lots of guns."
Click to expand...

:lamo
 
lizzie said:
When you are young, that is likely true to a certain extent. When you are older, and mature to a similar level as your parents, they can be very interesting to discuss the meaning of life with. My mom is an extremely intelligent woman, and even with her strict religious beliefs, she has become one of my favorite people to have serious discussions with, because in spite of her beliefs, she still questions her own beliefs, and she likes to get my take on matters of the big questions.
Click to expand...


What's really odd in the child/parent dynamic, is the switching of roles once the child is middle aged. My mother now calls me for advice on different things and seems more unsure of herself. It's very strange for me to take on this role, as it's my mother who has always been the level headed one between herself and my father.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
What's really odd in the child/parent dynamic, is the switching of roles once the child is middle aged. My mother now calls me for advice on different things and seems more unsure of herself. It's very strange for me to take on this role, as it's my mother who has always been the level headed one between herself and my father.
Click to expand...

It's really weird when the dynamic shifts. My dad recently confided in me regarding an issue he had not yet broached with my stepmom and proceeded to ask me how he should approach the discussion with her. It wasn't anything regarding their personal relationship...just general life stuff...but he was struggling because my stepmom's been stressed/exhausted due to her stepmother's ongoing illness.

In a way, it creates a sense of pride...like your parent recognizes you've become a capable adult with some small level of wisdom/perspective. At the same time, it destroys any remaining wisps of delusion that your parent is the perfect paradigm of wisdom and guidance.
 
Medusa said:
you are lucky lizzie.
Click to expand...

Well, in that respect, yes, I am. I fortunately had parents who willingly cut the apron strings loose and were content to watch me fly, rather than parents who tried to keep me a child forever. They were the epitome of parents who did not try to control, and they have never, at any point in my adult life, tried to control my life, or sway my decisions. Their philosophy in parenting was to try and instill good solid values in us while we were children, then trust in that early childhood training to guide us in life. They were always there for us, if needed, but we all felt responsible for making our own ways, and happy to do so.
 
I use to think it was an issue too Wake. I was basically like you describe, although my childhood was fairly easy-going. I too figured I just needed to learn/practice my way out of it. I tried that for 5+ years, there was not growing to enjoy it, there wasn't a lot of "gets better with practice", to me it was primarily just a big lesson in how not to spend my precious time alive. It almost backfired too. My current wife, when we were dating around that time I was still "social", was intimidated by it and figured if I loved doing all that social stuff we wouldn't be a good match (!). I asked her to let me explain, that if that's the deal-breaker, to trust me that it's not an issue, I'm more like her than I appeared. But if it was something else, sure, let's break up. But NOT because I'm too social (!!!!). Lucky for me she trusted me and I was telling the truth. Happily ever after almost ruined by doing exactly what you descirbe :)

And social is not a virtue, it's neither....be Zen about it (or rational, either way). Social groups bring a lot of good with the bad, from disease to peer pressure, keeping up with the jones's, dumbing down of individual choice, emotional dependancy, political/social risks, it's not all rosy.

So my advice is to focus on you. What do YOU want out of your short time self-aware on this earth. You, emotionally, and rationally. Not what you think you should do, or what others taught you to do, what you want. And then embrace it, be passionate about it. You and those around you will likely be the better for it. And let go of all the "well I'm like this because of my father", etc. More likely, you're that way because it's your genetic tendancy, maybe the same WITH your father, not because of your father. Why you are the way you are is a lot less relevant than how you live your life IMO, that clock is ticking, are you going to spend it doing stuff you "think" you should be doing, or spending it on what you're passionate about?

As to small talk with strangers, that one isn't a big time sink though. Just practice in checkout lines and such, no net-time cost to you, and you may find it helps out once you get comfortable with the basics. If you care to, the new Wake my not even feel it's worth worrying about...
 
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