Does the universe have a purpose?

grip said:

Oh is that so? Then why does nature imbue all species with the instinct to survive?

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Same answer. Hey, what do you think of me? Some kind of a guru? If you want someone to provide you with meaning to life for you go seek a religious leader of some kind. There are plenty of them to be chosen from.

DDD said:

Same answer. Hey, what do you think of me? Some kind of a guru? If you want someone to provide you with meaning to life for you go seek a religious leader of some kind. There are plenty of them to be chosen from.

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You ask me a question first as though you knew something, so I figured it only fair to ask for your enlightenment.

grip said:

You ask me a question first as though you knew something, so I figured it only fair to ask for your enlightenment.

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Nah, I was just curious why would one be afraid of "knowing" the purpose of the universe. For you see in both cases of whether it is a meaning that you attached to the universe's purpose, or "God" came and told only you the purpose of it all, I assumed it would leave one happy compared to afraid. But it was a joke you say, so...

DDD said:

Nah, I was just curious why would one be afraid of "knowing" the purpose of the universe. For you see in both cases of whether it is a meaning that you attached to the universe's purpose, or "God" came and told only you the purpose of it all, I assumed it would leave one happy compared to afraid. But it was a joke you say, so...

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What makes you think knowing the purpose would make you happy? Even if it all made sense and has a wonderful ending the fear of suffering and dying doesn't magically go away.

absols said:

wat is funny is how far u take advantage of being free while u act clearly against freedom right as a potential of being another

wat is the man sayin??? he simply presented an opinion so not supported by anything while he means to support it by sentences he is makin it especially for

he is sayin that there is no purpose and obviously it stinks, while u argue in meaning to contradict him by askin about his diploms in sciences

u do the same with me anyway, when a sentence is sayin smthg then nothing supports the mean so anything is against and in nothing it goes to less and is ignored

u would never respect conscious existence that is why u enjoy takin advantage of such easy possible way to kill a sentence value
a sentence is not a word nor a reality of letters, it is an expression that support smthg originally free

as u would never respect another expression that is why u seek constantly to possess conscious mind existence that include any possible individual mean

it is scary what u unconsciously reveal about that time being really destructive end

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I want to share this with my fellow earthlings while there is still time.

I guess I would say the manner in which the question is conceived is breathtakingly shallow. This isn't Dr. Tyson's fault. We tend to ask very shallow questions these days. It's a shame.

grip said:

What makes you think knowing the purpose would make you happy? Even if it all made sense and has a wonderful ending the fear of suffering and dying doesn't magically go away.

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Yes, now this is a good question. There were many times when it all connected and it all made sense. Many times I was confident of a certain perspective in life. Those times I was happier and lived life fullest.

Compared to living an empty meaningless one the earlier option I think makes one happier. As for death there is no way out of it unless they genetically modify us to live longer. It is just a matter of living it fully and meaningfully or empty and meaninglessly (also associated with happier and not in my opinion) at this time.

Great video, gotta love Neil. He's like a black Carl.

"What is the most promising approach to the mystery of existance? It is the traditional theist approach, which looks to a God-like entity as the necessary cause and sustainer of all beings? Is it the scientifric approach which draws on ideas from quantum cosmology to explain why a universe was bound to leap in to existance out of the void? Is it an entirely philosophical apparoach, which seks to deduce a reason for the world's existance from the abstract condicerations of value, or from the sheer impossibilty of nothingness? Is it some sort of mystical approach which aims to satisfy the cravingfor a cosmic rational through direct illumination"?

-from the book "Why Does The World Exist" by Jim Holt

DDD said:

Yes, now this is a good question. There were many times when it all connected and it all made sense. Many times I was confident of a certain perspective in life. Those times I was happier and lived life fullest.

Compared to living an empty meaningless one the earlier option I think makes one happier. As for death there is no way out of it unless they genetically modify us to live longer. It is just a matter of living it fully and meaningfully or empty and meaninglessly (also associated with happier and not in my opinion) at this time.

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The purpose of life I believe is to enjoy it. What gives it this purpose and meaning is the struggle for it. Without any effort it would have little meaning or purpose. We appreciate and enjoy things more when we work hard for them. I think that might be why we strive to exist and succeed?

grip said:

The purpose of life I believe is to enjoy it. What gives it this purpose and meaning is the struggle for it. Without any effort it would have little meaning or purpose. We appreciate and enjoy things more when we work hard for them. I think that might be why we strive to exist and succeed?

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Sounds great. I hope it sticks with you all the way.

One thing I would say about the universe having a purpose, if you were an ant living in a garden, or a worm living in a garden, you would have no reason to believe that your "universe" had any purpose whatsoever.

If you are a Deist you don't know whether the universe has a purpose, although presumably it does (God could have created the universe without purpose), but if it does you'd have no way of knowing what that could possibly be.

If you are a theist, presumibally the universe would have a purpose, but you couldn't show without revelation what it is.

If you are agnostic you have no way of knowing if the universe has a purpose.

If you are a strong atheist the universe could not have a purpose.

However I don't think one could decide whether or not the univserse has purpose simply by observing it, you have to answer the deity question first, and even if you answer that one it isn't a guarantee that it would help you in determining if the universe has a purpose.

Since I have a few minutes, I'll expand a little further on my previous comment:

The question as posed is very shallow, because it leaves a lot undefined--the upshot being that apparently a lot is to be taken for granted or assumed. What would it mean for the universe to have a purpose? If the idea is to ask whether the universe has a purpose in the same way that a tool has a purpose as envisioned by the toolmaker, well...probably not. But that's far from answering all the possible meanings of the question.

Consider: do parents who make a baby have a purpose for the baby in the same way a toolmaker has purpose for a hammer that he/she makes? One hopes not. But in case they don't, does that mean the baby has no purpose? The answer isn't so clear. Furthermore, as the baby grows into a child, a teenager, and then an adult, does that whole human being have purpose? It looks to me like, in most cases, the answer is that human beings do have purposes. Why couldn't the universe be like a human being, rather than like a hammer? It seems to me the universe is more like a human being than it is like a hammer, even independently of such considerations.

The ancient Greek philosophers had a few different words and concepts that would be of some use here. We need to distinguish τέλος (purpose, end) from θελήμα (will, intent). The latter can imbue the former, and when it does, the object so imbued has purpose. Human beings generally have both. It's of paramount importance to think clearly about what we mean in asking such questions as "does the universe have a purpose" before we answer.

If the universe doesn't have a purpose, then why do we care that the universe has no purpose? Why do (should) we care about truth over falsehood? By claiming that the universe has no purpose, you are undermining...pretty much everything about human existence.

To what origin do we ascribe any conventions by which we live, if all this is fundamentally without meaning? Morality, especially, is impossible to define.

As C.S. Lewis asks practically in The Problem of Pain, if the universe is ultimately meaningless, how did so many people, the vast majority of the human population through all of its existence, come to ascribe it largely to a wise and good creator? Men are fools perhaps, but how can they be THAT foolish?

Atreus21 said:

If the universe doesn't have a purpose, then why do we care that the universe has no purpose? Why do (should) we care about truth over falsehood? By claiming that the universe has no purpose, you are undermining...pretty much everything about human existence.

To what origin do we ascribe any conventions by which we live, if all this is fundamentally without meaning? Morality, especially, is impossible to define.

As C.S. Lewis asks practically in The Problem of Pain, if the universe is ultimately meaningless, how did so many people, the vast majority of the human population through all of its existence, come to ascribe it largely to a wise and good creator? Men are fools perhaps, but how can they be THAT foolish?

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We should care about truth over falsehood because it makes our life easier and more enjoyable.

I believe in God so I think that humans believe in God because there is one though.

But that doesn't follow that without a God and the universe having no meaning nothing is worth while for its own sake.