Accusations of "Self-Hatred"

German guy said:

I don't want to name names, but it happened to me all the time when Islam is the topic, on this forum too. Anti-Muslim culture warriors are often very passionate and the debate easily gets heated.

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I have noticed the examples you refer to & yes its wrong, as is the habit of some of calling people racist for all manner of non-racist reasons.

The whole missuse of racial language is, in my opinion, not cool.

People are capable of holding political positions without being racist &/or self haters.

We need to move beyond this sort of thing.

ThePlayDrive said:

If it makes you feel any better, I just got called a supporter of "terrorist genocide" earlier today multiple times in a topic on the Israeli-Palestinian issue. :lol: It used to piss me off, but now it's genuinely just funny.

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after you justified support for the terrorist organization Hamas based upon the idiotic notion that Israel was threatening Iran by their reactions towards Iranian calls for genocide.

If you talk like a Nazi, be prepared to be called on it.

German guy said:

What do you think?

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So, what do you think accounts for all those who create enormous double standards for evaluating people based upon whether they are considered "us" or "them" while going out of their way to defend the latter for that which they would lambaste were they only the former?

so what??? i dont care that u cant comment in a clear sentences while insistin to call urself a writer, i can do worse it is not my problem, i also could enjoy writing just to myself, being antiislam is not being racist, anti arabs mayb but still it is not wrong to b anti arab
racist is about willin to exterminate a total group of people limitin them to a race
but being against an ideology or acceptance of any other culture as a part of same world cant b wrong, when any and every is free so as long as present always individually existing

absols said:

so what??? i dont care that u cant comment in a clear sentences while insistin to call urself a writer, i can do worse it is not my problem, i also could enjoy writing just to myself, being antiislam is not being racist, anti arabs mayb but still it is not wrong to b anti arab
racist is about willin to exterminate a total group of people limitin them to a race
but being against an ideology or acceptance of any other culture as a part of same world cant b wrong, when any and every is free so as long as present always individually existing

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For **** sake, learn proper grammar.

hey do that **** sake urself by dippin ur grammar inn, who r u what grammar is proper since when grammar became a property

mister, language skills is exclusively about abstractions levels u can hold in ur head right to construct an objective reality of in words

that is how all languages evolved to chats and raps and free expressions creations which invade poetry rooms since it is its true reality

so insistin to call me illitrate is clearly exhibitin the wrong self u r that cant in anyway have any right to say a thing nor even to exist

Gardener said:

So, what do you think accounts for all those who create enormous double standards for evaluating people based upon whether they are considered "us" or "them" while going out of their way to defend the latter for that which they would lambaste were they only the former?

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Depends on the exact situation. I believe any generalization, no matter if you show a knee-jerk reaction to condemn "them" or defend "them", is not a helpful approach to any situation, though.

A knee-jerk reaction to condemn "them" has historically proven to be murderous and genocidal so far. So I can't really blame people who show a knee-jerk reaction rejecting this kind of broad-brush condemnation. They may not appropriately analyze the respective situation, but at least they aren't going to repeat past mistakes, even at the danger they are committing new mistakes.

It goes beyond white guilt or defense of racial minorities.

Rabid feminists, for example, will accuse you of hating women, disrespecting feminism, or thinking women incapable of being equal to men if you say you want to be a stay at home mom.
Rabid GLBT activists, for example, will accuse you of being ashamed of yourself if you aren't screaming from rooftops that you're here, queer/bi/trans, and proud of it.

Basically, if there's cause to bolster any group for any reason, and you don't do it enough as a member of that group, it must be because you're ashamed, because you're ignorant, or because you're brainwashed by "the enemy", whoever that is. If you advocate for another group when your group is the target of any (even microscopically small amount of) animosity or restriction, it must be because you're ashamed, ignorant, or brainwashed.

Heaven forbid we remember the underlying message of embracing diversity...you're only doing it right if you're doing it their way.

Paschendale said:

We treat racism like a disease. It's not. It's just a facet of being a douchebag. And we should treat racists, sexists, homophobes, and bigots of all types like what they are. Morally shallow douche people.

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Would you include people who are bigoted against others just because they have certain religious beliefs?

absols said:

hey do that **** sake urself by dippin ur grammar inn, who r u what grammar is proper since when grammar became a property

mister, language skills is exclusively about abstractions levels u can hold in ur head right to construct an objective reality of in words

that is how all languages evolved to chats and raps and free expressions creations which invade poetry rooms since it is its true reality

so insistin to call me illitrate is clearly exhibitin the wrong self u r that cant in anyway have any right to say a thing nor even to exist

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Gooby pls

X Factor said:

Would you include people who are bigoted against others just because they have certain religious beliefs?

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That's more complicated. It's bigotry to attack people merely for being part of a group. But if that group DOES something bad, then you're attacking them for their actions, or for their opinion that said action is right. That isn't bigotry. Is it bigoted to attack people for loving Christmas? Yes. Is it bigoted to attack people for playing Christmas jingles before December? NO! :shoot

I know the last time I heard the term was in a discussion about cultural differences, where a friend of mine felt that it seemed hypocritical that when he went to Saudi Arabia as a guest worker he was willing to observe their customs, no matter how weird and perverse he felt they were, but when somebody comes here, for some reason, we shall not dare expect them to conform to some degree to our culture.

I don't know if I agree with him that it's caused by "self hate," nor do I think that one should blindly follow their culture, but it does seem that a lot of people hold contempt for American culture, which is fine. I don't see why you're equating this to fascistic nationalism though. Whether or not you want to accept it, you have a culture you adhere to. Blindly following the culture like a religion is a different story, but saying "look, we don't tell our wives where to go here" or "they don't need your permission to leave the house" is not an unreasonable expectation. A lot of Americans feel America's culture is very tolerant of other cultures, and some simply feel that this tolerance affords it some respect and tolerance. Again, "self-hate" is probably not the best word for it though.

German Guy OP said:

...The entire terminology is deepy hypocritical and polemic, as far as I am concerned: Just because you defend minorities against broad-brush attacks and generalizing hatred, that doesn't mean you "hate yourself", on the contrary. This "white guilt card" is just played by racists and hateful bigots in an attempt to silence down advocates of tolerance and equal value of human beings. You are not against your own kind, just because you emphasize that others are humans too.

What do you think?

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German guy said:

Probably you are right ... but I'd like to hear everybody's points, and it would be nice if we could discuss them without using polemic hyperbole, such as accusing each other of "hating oneself". I believe there are good reasons why many are reluctant to share the same passion when it comes to criticizing minorities, no matter how justified that criticism is.

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1. Clearly you are addressing such things as my former signature:

mbig's twice used former sig:
"Political correctness is an outgrowth of white guilt. It’s a way for guilty-feeling whites to constantly indicate that they’re not racist, not colonialists, not imperialists, not warmongers, and so on."
- Shelby Steele

You probably didn't look it up, alas, but it's by a Black Man.
A conservative Black man.
I recently voted for a liberal Black man.
You can shove your "racist and bigot" up there with a Bratwurst.


2. and some of my/others (Gardener, wiggin, etc) posts pointing out Your many posts and string starts condemning Rational criticism of Islam as Islamophobia. A GG specialty along with fear of the new right/neo-nazis/etc.
iow, White Guilt. Absolutely.

Now you seek to turn other's pointing out of Islam's problems within and without into the critics Hang up.

3. I think your latest effort is Despicable and vague.
You had every opportunity in past strings to defend your point of view specifically.
Now typically, you've started yet another version of PCism, this one lacking specificity, just a nebulous Cheap shot.
This, as usual is just passive aggressive PC.. though not very passive.

4. You say you want to avoid 'polemic hyperbole', but have employed it yourself in the extreme, calling all who oppose you "racists" and "Bigots"!
What unbelievable nerve, not to mention obtuseness.

So you have No Specific passages to critique, just start another Attack string of your own! Your post is unbelievably Hypocritical and I despise many of your others for the same reason.
You have a PC/Ultra-liberal Drift but NO specific Issue.
Blind PC, the most common fundamentalist religion, taking in members of Both the right and left and of which your are one of the 2 most pre-eminent, (read knee-jerk) practitioners on this board.
the other being a mod. PC is popular even with those who think they aren't.