• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Questioning Religion & the Religious

Wake

Wake

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
18,536
Reaction score
2,438
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
What could be said to dissuade you from believing?
 
Wake said:
What could be said to dissuade you from believing?
Click to expand...

I'm not religious, but for most of those who are, there's absolutely nothing you can say or do that will dissuade them. When you've completely shut off the logical part of your brain and have decided to adhere to your beliefs no matter what happens, nothing anyone can do will pull you out of that abyss. The decision has to be voluntary.
 
I don't think much could be said to dissuade most people from their beliefs. Many of those beliefs are set and either engrained through indoctrination or search of idealism.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm not religious, but for most of those who are, there's absolutely nothing you can say or do that will dissuade them. When you've completely shut off the logical part of your brain and have decided to adhere to your beliefs no matter what happens, nothing anyone can do will pull you out of that abyss. The decision has to be voluntary.
Click to expand...

That is what is so... frustrating. I had a discussion with my mother yesterday about how religion is itself a fairy-tale, because god is made in man's image, and not the other way around. It was also explained to her that the major set known as "Religion" contains many different subsets of religion, like Islam and Christianity... and that of those subsets, there are variations of each, some in the hundreds. Religion is a way to control people, and always has been. In the past religion and those good people in charge had the power to kill/torture those who dared to question it.
 
Wake said:
What could be said to dissuade you from believing?
Click to expand...

Probably not much. Even if there were proof positive that there is no God, I would still have a religious aspect to my nature, and it would be expressed in one way or another.
 
Wake said:
That is what is so... frustrating. I had a discussion with my mother yesterday about how religion is itself a fairy-tale, because god is made in man's image, and not the other way around. It was also explained to her that the major set known as "Religion" contains many different subsets of religion, like Islam and Christianity... and that of those subsets, there are variations of each, some in the hundreds. Religion is a way to control people, and always has been. In the past religion and those good people in charge had the power to kill/torture those who dared to question it.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know where you're coming from. My mother is one of the most religious people I've ever met. I think however that it's something that defines her and gives her comfort, and as such, even if I believe she's wrong as hell, I wouldn't want her to change.
 
nothing can tell me that god isnt real and controls everything we do i know it is ive seen proof and i know the bible is the word of god so nothing man says can tell me im wrong people who try to tell me god isnt real are rebelling against their god becasu they have pride and lust in their heart i feel abd for them and i pray every day for them so that they may now the healing love of jesus christ
 
ObamaIsAMarxist said:
nothing can tell me that god isnt real and controls everything we do i know it is ive seen proof and i know the bible is the word of god so nothing man says can tell me im wrong people who try to tell me god isnt real are rebelling against their god becasu they have pride and lust in their heart i feel abd for them and i pray every day for them so that they may now the healing love of jesus christ
Click to expand...
Friend, you need punctuation in your life.
 
It depends. I spent nearly 30 years as a Christian. It starts with a seed of doubt, but takes logical and analytical thinking to complete. You have to remember that religion is something that goes to the very core of a person's being, so most people will have a hard enough time doubting their religion, much less leaving. There's a website for those who have left Christianity, and it's said that the average time, from first doubt, to final departure, takes, on average, eight years. It didn't take quite so long for me, but that's a different story. I converted to Buddhism, which those who see no value at all in religion will say isn't really much better, but I would disagree. There's more use of analytical reasoning and rational thinking in Buddhism, without all of the superstition and mythology. But letting go of religion isn't really the point. It's letting go of blind faith and illogical dogmatism that is important. Religion has many good aspects, the point is rooting out the bad to keep just the good.
 
ObamaIsAMarxist said:
nothing can tell me that god isnt real and controls everything we do i know it is ive seen proof and i know the bible is the word of god so nothing man says can tell me im wrong people who try to tell me god isnt real are rebelling against their god becasu they have pride and lust in their heart i feel abd for them and i pray every day for them so that they may now the healing love of jesus christ
Click to expand...

That's the party line from those who refuse to believe that anyone could possibly reject Christianity. You can't really expect to people to believe, when, 1. there is absolutely no proof of god's existence, 2. there is no proof of a historical Jesus of Nazareth, 3. there are more than enough errors in the Bible to show that it is not the "word of god".
 
Wake said:
What could be said to dissuade you from believing?
Click to expand...

For me personally? Nothing.

And I do mean, nothing. I have thought it through, I have considered all hypothetical realistically plausible situations and I came up with: Nothing. Because renouncing your religion is stupid.
 
Rainman05 said:
For me personally? Nothing.

And I do mean, nothing. I have thought it through, I have considered all hypothetical realistically plausible situations and I came up with: Nothing. Because renouncing your religion is stupid.
Click to expand...

To both, why?

Which exact religion have you decided to stand behind permanently?
 
One of the inconsistencies with Christianity is that god is a very jealous being. He is not very particular about killing even his loyal soldiers, like Uzzah who accidentally touched the Ark of the Covenant. To me it seems very insecure to send those who don't believe in you—or give you praise—to some pit of eternal fire.
 
Wake said:
That is what is so... frustrating. I had a discussion with my mother yesterday about how religion is itself a fairy-tale, because god is made in man's image, and not the other way around. It was also explained to her that the major set known as "Religion" contains many different subsets of religion, like Islam and Christianity... and that of those subsets, there are variations of each, some in the hundreds. Religion is a way to control people, and always has been. In the past religion and those good people in charge had the power to kill/torture those who dared to question it.
Click to expand...

What does it matter though? Sure theists can be annoying, and coming up on Christmas the militant theists will start up with their War on Christmas shenanigans again; but beyond the typical annoyance...what's the big deal? If they ain't hurting nobody, they should be free to believe as they want.
 
Wake said:
To both, why?

Which exact religion have you decided to stand behind permanently?
Click to expand...

You don't need to decide to stand permanently behind any religion at all. Religion is much more than a denomination or a dogma. It's an aspect of many humans which they need, or want to express. Religion the concept, and religion the dogma are not the same thing. I started out Chrisitan, since that is how I was raised. I began to have questions that my religion could not answer, so I had my own personal quest of sorts. It led me through many phases of belief, including a period of time I spent agnostic, and almost what I would consider atheistic. I realized that religion for me is not belief in a specific diety or dogma, but a facet of my self-expression that doesn't need to believe in anything specific. Personally, I would never tell anyone, much less my own mother, that her religion is BS. She's a good person, and is happy, and she believes in her religion. Why would I want to rock her world, and try to tear down her foundation?
 
Ikari said:
What does it matter though? Sure theists can be annoying, and coming up on Christmas the militant theists will start up with their War on Christmas shenanigans again; but beyond the typical annoyance...what's the big deal? If they ain't hurting nobody, they should be free to believe as they want.
Click to expand...

...they are free to believe, of course, but they are naive if they think their beliefs are completely exempt from scrutiny.
 
lizzie said:
Why would I want to rock her world, and try to tear down her foundation?
Click to expand...

...because I love her... I do not wish to see her wrapped up in sweet lies. Ignorance may be bliss... but is the bliss worth it... if it is a lie?
 
Wake said:
...because I love her... I do not wish to see her wrapped up in sweet lies. Ignorance may be bliss... but is the bliss worth it... if it is a lie?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is. Take the word of someone who knows. Ignorance is bliss, and destruction of someone's happiness is not cool. At all.
 
lizzie said:
Yes, it is. Take the word of someone who knows. Ignorance is bliss, and destruction of someone's happiness is not cool. At all.
Click to expand...

...

While ignorance can be blissful... to live in a lie...

...a lie is a lie... and while it may feel good... it is deceitful... false...

...maybe some turn to religion... because the truth is too much to bear...

My own mother—after talking with her about religion—could only shake her head and state that god must exist... he simply must...
 
Wake said:
To both, why?

Which exact religion have you decided to stand behind permanently?
Click to expand...

I am an Orthodox Christian. I have always been an Orthodox Christian and I will always be one. I am however not indoctrinated in the way evangelicals in the USA are. I don't attend regular Church but then again, I don't believe staying in Church is what makes you a Christian. I don't praise the lord in public and I don't believe in the kind of reality-like shows the evangelicals in the USA do. So there is a clear difference between being a Christian in Europe, and being part of the traditional, correct denominations of Christianity, and being something else that only pretends to be Christian.

I am faithful to my religion because I find it works for me personally.

I also find it fitting for the society I want to live in as it is hardly ever susceptible to extremism.

The most important element of any religion, for me, is its cult of death. Christianity as a whole, has, in my opinion, the most correct one. Therefore, religions that teach people how to live life are undesirable to me. And religions that preach reincarnation are also undesireable. Which excludes most of the oriental religions.
 
Wake said:
...

While ignorance can be blissful... to live in a lie...

...a lie is a lie... and while it may feel good... it is deceitful... false...

...maybe some turn to religion... because the truth is too much to bear...

My own mother—after talking with her about religion—could only shake her head and state that god must exist... he simply must...
Click to expand...

I'll just put it this way: Do what you think you must, but beware opening cans of worms is a messy endeavor, and a crusader, no matter what your crusade entails, hurts others, and hurts you too.
 
lizzie said:
I'll just put it this way: Do what you think you must, but beware opening cans of worms is a messy endeavor, and a crusader, no matter what your crusade entails, hurts others, and hurts you too.
Click to expand...

...it is not a sweet medicine.
 
Wake said:
...they are free to believe, of course, but they are naive if they think their beliefs are completely exempt from scrutiny.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I just don't see too much of a point less they are militant theists; in which case they deserve it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom