If hell exists, would you realize you were there

Green Balls · Nov 13, 2012

My fiance and I just saw a video about 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree burns and then it jumps into the existence of hell and how there will be burned and charred skin.

I don't believe in souls, heaven, or hell. I can understand the concept of a soul. To my understanding, a soul is energy. It lacks the physical limitations we have as humans, and that also means it cannot think or feel (since thinking and feeling are properties of a physical body). So if hell were a real place, you wouldn't feel the burning fire. You would not have any flesh to burn. And you probably wouldn't care if you were there since you can't think.

I included the video to get your thoughts on this.

specklebang · Nov 14, 2012

Actually, a book written in 1929 explains EVERYTHING. Really. "Go to hell" will take on a whole new meaning to you.

None But Lucifer (Gateways Retro Science Fiction): Horace L. Gold, L. Sprague de Camp: 9780895561282: Amazon.com: Books

Anagram · Nov 14, 2012

Green Balls said:
My fiance and I just saw a video about 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree burns and then it jumps into the existence of hell and how there will be burned and charred skin.

I don't believe in souls, heaven, or hell. I can understand the concept of a soul. To my understanding, a soul is energy. It lacks the physical limitations we have as humans, and that also means it cannot think or feel (since thinking and feeling are properties of a physical body). So if hell were a real place, you wouldn't feel the burning fire. You would not have any flesh to burn. And you probably wouldn't care if you were there since you can't think.

I included the video to get your thoughts on this.

I admit I'm not an expert on theology, but I was always taught growing up as a Catholic that you can have thoughts and experiences as a soul, and that hell isn't necessarily a place of fire, but rather eternal separation from God, which is the worst possible thing imaginable.

rocket88 · Nov 14, 2012

Honestly, it really seems like atheists sometimes put more stock in the literal interpretations of Christianity than most Christians do.

Hell, of course, could not be a place where your flesh is burned because when you get there you have no flesh. Heaven is not a place where you get wings and play harps. Essentially, my take is this: Heaven is unity with the divine. You become a part of the divine. Hell is total separation from that. It is the absence of the divine, and the knowledge that you have not lived up to the full potential of what you could be.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

You are supposing that there is some inherent property to souls that would render them immune from feeling pain and hurt. If God created hell, if God created your body, soul, and the concept of feeling, then if God is bent on punishing you to eternal damnation, He can find a way.

Green Balls said:
My fiance and I just saw a video about 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree burns and then it jumps into the existence of hell and how there will be burned and charred skin.

I don't believe in souls, heaven, or hell. I can understand the concept of a soul. To my understanding, a soul is energy. It lacks the physical limitations we have as humans, and that also means it cannot think or feel (since thinking and feeling are properties of a physical body). So if hell were a real place, you wouldn't feel the burning fire. You would not have any flesh to burn. And you probably wouldn't care if you were there since you can't think.

I included the video to get your thoughts on this.

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Anagram said:
I admit I'm not an expert on theology, but I was always taught growing up as a Catholic that you can have thoughts and experiences as a soul, and that hell isn't necessarily a place of fire, but rather eternal separation from God, which is the worst possible thing imaginable.

Actually, separation from "god" seems pretty good right now. :shrug:

rocket88 said:
Honestly, it really seems like atheists sometimes put more stock in the literal interpretations of Christianity than most Christians do.

Hell, of course, could not be a place where your flesh is burned because when you get there you have no flesh. Heaven is not a place where you get wings and play harps. Essentially, my take is this: Heaven is unity with the divine. You become a part of the divine. Hell is total separation from that. It is the absence of the divine, and the knowledge that you have not lived up to the full potential of what you could be.

Full potential? What if I dictate my full potential to be a suicide bomber and am successful? Does that not mean I lived up to my full potential?

Peter Grimm said:
You are supposing that there is some inherent property to souls that would render them immune from feeling pain and hurt. If God created hell, if God created your body, soul, and the concept of feeling, then if God is bent on punishing you to eternal damnation, He can find a way.

So "god" is a Sadist?

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

No. A sadist, by definition, obtains pleasure from inflicting pain on others.

zgoldsmith23 said:
So "god" is a Sadist?

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
No. A sadist, by definition, obtains pleasure from inflicting pain on others.

Well it certainly doesn't bother him. :shrug:

lizzie · Nov 14, 2012

Since I tend to view heaven and hell as states of mind, sure, you would feel it, but likely in the form of mental and emotional anguish, not physical pain.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

How would you know that?

zgoldsmith23 said:
Well it certainly doesn't bother him. :shrug:

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
How would you know that?

He's "god" - he's, by definition, omnipotent and omniscient, he could stop it if he wanted to. Did we just answer the omnipotence paradox?

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

According to Christian theology, God can and does stop people from going to Hell.

However... you claim to know that God is not bothered that people go to hell, since he has the ability to stop that from occurring.

If a child cheats on a test in school and the teacher sends the child to detention, are you to assume the teacher is a sadist or is not bothered by having to discipline the child? Of course not. No good parent or teacher enjoys disciplining their children, but it is necessary all the same.

Likewise, according to Christian theology, the just punishment for sin is death. God saves us from death through an act of mercy and pardon.

I'm not familiar with the omnipotence paradox.

Perhaps I should read up on it, I do love a good mind-bender.

zgoldsmith23 said:
He's "god" - he's, by definition, omnipotent and omniscient, he could stop it if he wanted to. Did we just answer the omnipotence paradox?

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
According to Christian theology, God can and does stop people from going to Hell.

And there's evidence for this?

However... you claim to know that God is not bothered that people go to hell, since he has the ability to stop that from occurring.

Why even create Hell?

If a child cheats on a test in school and the teacher sends the child to detention, are you to assume the teacher is a sadist or is not bothered by having to discipline the child? Of course not. No good parent or teacher enjoys disciplining their children, but it is necessary all the same.

Well for one, I don't support discipline. Also, that punishment is temporary and has a teaching lesson. Being eternally damned is not temporary and offers little in the way of redemption.

Likewise, according to Christian theology, the just punishment for sin is death. God saves us from death through an act of mercy and pardon.

The punishment which he knowingly instilled.

I'm not familiar with the omnipotence paradox. Perhaps I should read up on it, I do love a good mind-bender.

I don't care what you like and love.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

zgoldsmith23 said:
And there's evidence for this?

I do have evidence for my claim: According to Christian theology, God can and does stop people from going to Hell.

John 3:16.... "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

zgoldsmith23 said:
Why even create Hell?

God doesn't want anyone to go to Hell. Hell, as another poster suggested, is to be completely outside the presence of God's love. If someone is in Hell, it's by their own choice... because they choose to reject God and would rather die without Him than live with Him.

zgoldsmith23 said:
Well for one, I don't support discipline. Also, that punishment is temporary and has a teaching lesson. Being eternally damned is not temporary and offers little in the way of redemption.

It's not really known whether Hell is temporary or permanent. Jewish tradition says it is temporary, some Christian traditions say it is permanent. Either way, it is deserved.

zgoldsmith23 said:
The punishment which he knowingly instilled.

Which is deserved. All human beings deserve Hell. We are saved through God's grace and mercy.

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
I do have evidence for my claim: According to Christian theology, God can and does stop people from going to Hell.

John 3:16.... "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

That's circular logic and it won't work here.

God doesn't want anyone to go to Hell. Hell, as another poster suggested, is to be completely outside the presence of God's love. If someone is in Hell, it's by their own choice... because they choose to reject God and would rather die without Him than live with Him.

If "God" doesn't want anyone to go to Hell, then why let them / make them? If someone is in Hell, it's because "god" created Hell.

It's not really known whether Hell is temporary or permanent. Jewish tradition says it is temporary, some Christian traditions say it is permanent. Either way, it is deserved.

Riiiiiiight. :roll:

Which is deserved. All human beings deserve Hell. We are saved through God's grace and mercy.

Why do we deserve it? Because we are imperfect? Well either "god" created us this way or he knew we'd become imperfect.

MaggieD · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
You are supposing that there is some inherent property to souls that would render them immune from feeling pain and hurt. If God created hell, if God created your body, soul, and the concept of feeling, then if God is bent on punishing you to eternal damnation, He can find a way.

My God isn't bent on punishing anyone. Most of us, even the most heinous among us, do the best we can with what we've been given.

Wouldn't it be sadistic if God actually punished people? He gave them free will. He gave them the parents who held their little hands over burning stoves...that locked them in closets for days on end...he created it all. Then for him to say, ":rofl !! See what you did?? I'm damning you to eternal torment!!"

No, I don't believe that for a minute.

Ikari · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
How would you know that?

Well if it were all true, then he continues to eternally damn people to this day. As such, it doesn't seem to really bother it that much.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

zgoldsmith23 said:
That's circular logic and it won't work here.

It's not circular logic for me to claim that according to Christian theology, God can and does stop people from going to Hell. It's a true claim.

zgoldsmith23 said:
If "God" doesn't want anyone to go to Hell, then why let them / make them? If someone is in Hell, it's because "god" created Hell.

Free will.

zgoldsmith23 said:
Why do we deserve it? Because we are imperfect? Well either "god" created us this way or he knew we'd become imperfect.

It's better to have lived and died than never to have been born at all.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

If people are inherently good, then sell your computer, give up all your money, all your possessions, sell your house, and give it to feed starving kids in Africa.

Cant' do it? Join the club. We are all flawed. We are all, by nature, selfish.

Not one of us is worthy of living in God's presence (heaven).

MaggieD said:
My God isn't bent on punishing anyone. Most of us, even the most heinous among us, do the best we can with what we've been given.

Wouldn't it be sadistic if God actually punished people? He gave them free will. He gave them the parents who held their little hands over burning stoves...that locked them in closets for days on end...he created it all. Then for him to say, ":rofl !! See what you did?? I'm damning you to eternal torment!!"

No, I don't believe that for a minute.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

Ikari said:
Well if it were all true, then he continues to eternally damn people to this day. As such, it doesn't seem to really bother it that much.

Do you have kids? Do you ever have to discipline them? Does that mean you enjoy doing it?

Ikari · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
Do you have kids? Do you ever have to discipline them? Does that mean you enjoy doing it?

That would depend. If rules were made, and clear measurement is around of the rules and consequence enforced by my, as a measurable and interacting being of the children's life, and I work consistently in a manner to keep them safe, punishing them to ensure that they learn proper right from wrong and can interact, therefore, more ably in society when older; likely not.

If I set up a circumstance of arbitrary law, set the situation such that my children will surely break the rules, turn my back and not actively servo the system, waiting through several uncorrected mistakes before I harshly punish them with banishment to the basement; then likely yes.

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
It's not circular logic for me to claim that according to Christian theology, God can and does stop people from going to Hell. It's a true claim.

And where is the evidence Christian theology is true?

Free will.

Partly. Yet, it's impossible to go to a place "god" didn't create (going by your standard).

It's better to have lived and died than never to have been born at all.

A) Not according to antinatalists.
B) This has no real counterclaim to my post.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

God's law is not arbitrary, and we have the free will to be able to follow it and do good.

Ikari said:
That would depend. If rules were made, and clear measurement is around of the rules and consequence enforced by my, as a measurable and interacting being of the children's life, and I work consistently in a manner to keep them safe, punishing them to ensure that they learn proper right from wrong and can interact, therefore, more ably in society when older; likely not.

If I set up a circumstance of arbitrary law, set the situation such that my children will surely break the rules, turn my back and not actively servo the system, waiting through several uncorrected mistakes before I harshly punish them with banishment to the basement; then likely yes.

Peter Grimm · Nov 14, 2012

zgoldsmith23 said:
And where is the evidence Christian theology is true?

The thread is based on the premise: "if hell exists, would you realize you were there?"

Hell is a religious concept, therefore it is reasonable to discuss it in those terms.

zgoldsmith23 said:
Partly. Yet, it's impossible to go to a place "god" didn't create (going by your standard).

I never said God didn't create Hell. One way to think about Hell is the absence of God's presence. To live outside God's presence is a choice anyone can make.

zgoldsmith23 said:
A) Not according to antinatalists.

I don't know what that is.

zgoldsmith23 said:
B) This has no real counterclaim to my post.

God created man with free will, and man can choose to live in God's presence.

zgoldsmith23 · Nov 14, 2012

Peter Grimm said:
The thread is based on the premise: "if hell exists, would you realize you were there?"

Hell is a religious concept, therefore it is reasonable to discuss it in those terms.

There is no evidence hell exists, so throw the idea out and this thread is revealed to be what it really is - useless.

I never said God didn't create Hell. One way to think about Hell is the absence of God's presence. To live outside God's presence is a choice anyone can make.

It seems pretty nice now, I'm not sure why "hell" is considered bad then.

I don't know what that is.

Of course you don't. Surprise surprise. :roll:

God created man with free will, and man can choose to live in God's presence.

So "god" is a malevolent, egotistical dictator. Got it.

If hell exists, would you realize you were there

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