I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god...

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:

and I believe Thor, son of Odin, is real. why? cause I feel it.

I'll end with this, if these beliefs were not so wide spread, in fact, if they didn't exist, and someone out of no where, started saying all of this crap, all of it, all the stories in the bible, all the prophecy, the Jesus story, all of it, they would be viewed as mentally unstable. a hypothetical to be sure, but can you deny that I wonder?

Click to expand...

Is this what truly bothers you? That these beliefs are so wide spread? Could it be fear of that which we do not understand? You're wondering......how could so many people....even some educated and seemingly intelligent people fall under this "spell" for so long.......even after scientists and avowed atheists the world over have been screaming in their faces about lack of rational evidence? And the seemingly paradoxical nature of the Old Testament God versus the message of the New Testament Christ? And even after critics have pointed out so many apparent "Biblical contradictions" and "biblical fallacies,"....................... You're wondering how so many people could still hold on to faith after all this, aren't you? :lol:

Some will never come to understanding until it's too late.....the Bible even says as much. :shrug:

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:

Many people do good things, some far greater and better than any christian does, but that doesn't make them right. I have found Mormons to be the most sincere and "nice" and overall most moral of the faiths, the friendliest, but if you are a real christian, you wouldn't use that as a reason to follow their faith.

Click to expand...

what do you define is a REAL CHRISTIAN?

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:

and I believe Thor, son of Odin, is real. why? cause I feel it.

I'll end with this, if these beliefs were not so wide spread, in fact, if they didn't exist, and someone out of no where, started saying all of this crap, all of it, all the stories in the bible, all the prophecy, the Jesus story, all of it, they would be viewed as mentally unstable. a hypothetical to be sure, but can you deny that I wonder?

Click to expand...

again...your looking for it as truth in words....it is sooooo much more then that...you will never find your answers because you are an Atheist....and for me that is your choice....I respect it...I get why you are ....but you will never get why we feel the way we do...not ever.....and you will never understand it...never ever...as long as you remain an Atheist...and for you that is what you want....your choice...but don't rag on us for feeling a different way then you do.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:

Is this what truly bothers you? That these beliefs are so wide spread? Could it be fear of that which we do not understand? You're wondering......how could so many people....even some educated and seemingly intelligent people fall under this "spell" for so long.......even after scientists and avowed atheists the world over have been screaming in their faces about lack of rational evidence? And the seemingly paradoxical nature of the Old Testament God versus the message of the New Testament Christ? And even after critics have pointed out so many apparent "Biblical contradictions" and "biblical fallacies,"....................... You're wondering how so many people could still hold on to faith after all this, aren't you? :lol:

Some will never come to understanding until it's too late.....the Bible even says as much. :shrug:

Click to expand...

Amazing. You dodge my question completely, and then make the claim that simply because a large number of people believe something, that gives it an inherent value in whether or not it is true. That is all you have done, I have submitted to you the facts and reasons why belief in such a god is delusion, you really have not addressed my main points, but all the while you throw ignorant and foolish questions of your own at me, so while I have to deal with your pathetic little attempts at bending basic logic to fit your beliefs, you ignore, as you did right here, my main points and questions.

And your bit at the end which stems from the "the bible says it so it must be true" thing, almost makes me think you are trolling this thread.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Politicaladdict said:

what do you define is a REAL CHRISTIAN?

Click to expand...

I am using the term "real christian" in reference to what a Mormon is. Mormons are not Christians.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Politicaladdict said:

again...your looking for it as truth in words....it is sooooo much more then that...you will never find your answers because you are an Atheist....and for me that is your choice....I respect it...I get why you are ....but you will never get why we feel the way we do...not ever.....and you will never understand it...never ever...as long as you remain an Atheist...and for you that is what you want....your choice...but don't rag on us for feeling a different way then you do.

Click to expand...

I do NOT "rag" on you for feeling different, I rag on your belief, because the "holy text" you trumpet around has some of the most evil and immoral things I have ever seen in it. That, and throughout history and also in modern times, the bible (AND NOT A MISINTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE) has been used for slavery, killing of gays and supposed witches, the complete subjugation of women, genital mutilation of children. In modern times, religion, even Christianity is still plaguing our society, though not as much since it has also been modernized a bit. And if you deem it acceptable to take something as utter truth on zero evidence, zero logic, zero facts, then anything can be believed, which is the reason the religious can be led like sheep (as they LIKE to be called) to fight against gay rights, womens rights, abortion rights, black rights, economic rights, really anything under the sun. And when you combine the encouraging of ignoring logical thinking and reasoning, with someone who is already uneducated and possibly less mentally equipped in general, it only adds to the ability of those in power, with decent persuasive abilities, to convince those who I just described to do almost anything. A society should base itself on the values of logical reasoning, fact based views, and should be encouraged to never take anything as absolute (as your religion does), along with the other natural morals that keep a civilization going strong.

And again your "its soooo much more then that" line, is only your "I just have a feeling" line, in different words, which I already showed you how such an irrational belief is well within the bounds of what the human brain can make one think, or feel about anything.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:

Amazing. You dodge my question completely, and then make the claim that simply because a large number of people believe something, that gives it an inherent value in whether or not it is true. That is all you have done, I have submitted to you the facts and reasons why belief in such a god is delusion, you really have not addressed my main points, but all the while you throw ignorant and foolish questions of your own at me, so while I have to deal with your pathetic little attempts at bending basic logic to fit your beliefs, you ignore, as you did right here, my main points and questions.

And your bit at the end which stems from the "the bible says it so it must be true" thing, almost makes me think you are trolling this thread.

Click to expand...

Really? I'm "trolling" this thread? Now that's downright funny considering your OP is trollish in nature and logically flawed as it attempts to take a historical , biblical event completely out of context and is presumptuous in that it assumes that ALL Christians would support such actions today. You're taking Bronze Age dialogue and attempting to fallaciously apply modern-day standards of "Christian morality" to it. Different laws, different standards, different practices........for a much different era. Christians follow the doctrines of Jesus Christ and most modern Christians, I believe, use these OT stories for their historic value and for the general and overriding lessons that they can teach. Very, very few Christian sects today interpret the old laws literally and attempt to live by them. I choose to disassociate myself from those who do.

Stop generalizing and stop making broad, sweeping claims that attempt to place ALL Christians into the same category............like many other belief systems, believe it or not, Christianity has evolved some in the past two-thousand years :roll:.........those who fail to see that and admit it are either ignorant of fact or are simply being intellectually dishonest. :shrug:

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:

I'll end with this, if these beliefs were not so wide spread, in fact, if they didn't exist, and someone out of no where, started saying all of this crap, all of it, all the stories in the bible, all the prophecy, the Jesus story, all of it, they would be viewed as mentally unstable. a hypothetical to be sure, but can you deny that I wonder?

Click to expand...

I would posit that without religion (any religious flavor whatsoever), the world would still be a place where evil actions and evil men exist, as evil isn't born of religion, but of men. You could say the same of religion being man-made, and you could be right, but make no mistake- good and bad are both a part of humanity, and religion serves a useful and postiive purpose for many people, regardless of your own beliefs about it.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

lizzie said:

I would posit that without religion (any religious flavor whatsoever), the world would still be a place where evil actions and evil men exist, as evil isn't born of religion, but of men. You could say the same of religion being man-made, and you could be right, but make no mistake- good and bad are both a part of humanity, and religion serves a useful and postiive purpose for many people, regardless of your own beliefs about it.

Click to expand...

The question boils down to: is religion's "bad" justified from all of its "good?" I say the answer is no.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

zgoldsmith23 said:

The question boils down to: is religion's "bad" justified from all of its "good?" I say the answer is no.

Click to expand...

There is really no way to know, since the religious impulse seems to be inherrent in humanity, and has been with us for thousands of years. My guess would be that it has overall been a positive, since there are so many people who cannot manage to act in a civil manner without a supreme authority figure in their lives. I'd personally prefer to have people living in fear of God, than of dictatorship by their fellow man. We have quite enough controlling humans as is.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

lizzie said:

There is really no way to know, since the religious impulse seems to be inherrent in humanity, and has been with us for thousands of years. My guess would be that it has overall been a positive, since there are so many people who cannot manage to act in a civil manner without a supreme authority figure in their lives. I'd personally prefer to have people living in fear of God, than of dictatorship by their fellow man. We have quite enough controlling humans as is.

Click to expand...

Those people who can't behave in a "civil manner without a supreme authority figure" - have they even tried it? It's not very hard.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

I'm not a Jew or a Christian, and it seems legit to me. Seige warfare means trapping a people inside their fortification in order to starve them out. Not hard to imagine that people would resort to cannibalism, or that some would associate that to pissing their god off. They should have went mobile, anyway. Mechanized warfare is where it's at.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

zgoldsmith23 said:

Those people who can't behave in a "civil manner without a supreme authority figure" - have they even tried it? It's not very hard.

Click to expand...

You are likely overestimating the intelligence of most people.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

lizzie said:

You are likely overestimating the intelligence of most people.

Click to expand...

So desire to be a slave? To be told what to do? To avoid thinking for oneself?

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

zgoldsmith23 said:

So desire to be a slave? To be told what to do? To avoid thinking for oneself?

Click to expand...

That seems to be the default position, unfortunately.

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

few understand how scriptures were written and for what purpose. o.t. is not historically correct ,never meant to be.