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I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god...

Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
Its amazing, the amount a person will stretch and bend their morals and their logic to make this gods judgments fit into their world view. If you take the view the bible is not supposed to be taken literally, well then there is no way to prove or disprove (or provide evidence for or against) its validity. Because then, every time I may point out something wrong, or odd, or contradictory, you can just use the "don't take it literally" line, basically. I did not post this to THOSE people, there is no point in putting this kind of argument to them.

As for the "God made everything so he can do whatever he wants" BS... (from a christian standpoint) Obviously, god gave us morals, morals that in any normal instance, such an act of threatening mild disobedience with the forced canibalism of ones new born, and afterbirth, would be beyond disgusting, it would probably be one of the sickest things you could imagine, something not even Hitler (guessing here) would have forced on his enemies.

BUT we are not allowed to use those very morals god gave us and apply them to him? put this in another context. Say we finally obtain the ability to fully clone human beings, or create from scratch new ones entirely, humans, or life forms with what we consider free will, self awareness, and complex thought. Just because we created this life form, does that give the maker the ability to do with said life form, whatever they wish, most people would realize that would be wrong. But, again, we can't apply that to god? why? in the end, that argument comes down to a shrug of the shoulders and a "well, he is god, whatcha ganna do?!". that is unacceptable, because the application of such judgment can and is applied everywhere else, and such a god does not get an exemption just because he made us.
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I don't think that "God gave us morals".........he gave us free will and the opportunity to adopt good "morals". He gave us the good and proper example to follow........when we choose the "wider path"........bad things often happen......they're called "consequences." God does promise judgement......that much is clear. :shrug:
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

First off you are taking it to literal....that is where the radical parts of religion dwell.....when the words in the Bible or any religious book are taken to be meant word for word......I went to many years of bible study to understand all interpretations. Since you I am assuming are an atheist you will never get the answers that you are looking for. GOD is not just a book but a feeling inside those that believe.....we get it...we understand the feeling....we understand what the words are trying to teach us. Sorry but as long as you are a non believer your questions will never make you say...Oh I get it.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
I don't think that "God gave us morals".........he gave us free will and the opportunity to adopt good "morals". He gave us the good and proper example to follow........when we choose the "wider path"........bad things often happen......they're called "consequences." God does promise judgement......that much is clear. :shrug:
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an example to follow? an example? as in, every way god acted was an example? or just that tiny bit with Jesus? though, since they are part of, or THE same being, it really doesn't matter.

in this case, mass genocide becomes utterly acceptable.
 
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Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Politicaladdict said:
First off you are taking it to literal....that is where the radical parts of religion dwell.....when the words in the Bible or any religious book are taken to be meant word for word......I went to many years of bible study to understand all interpretations. Since you I am assuming are an atheist you will never get the answers that you are looking for. GOD is not just a book but a feeling inside those that believe.....we get it...we understand the feeling....we understand what the words are trying to teach us. Sorry but as long as you are a non believer your questions will never make you say...Oh I get it.
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ah, so you fall back onto an unapproachable defensive position. the only challenge i can make, is that the human brain is fully capable of malfunctioning to the point where people believe in false realities, people develop dual personalities, bizarre and extreme mental cases. If the human brain is capable of that, with all the complicated mass of brain matter, chemicals and what not, saying you have a "feeling" files in right along side every other mild form of insanity. If you can't show any probability though this god's only holy book, (showing how prophecies have or haven't been fulfilled would be a big one, or medical or scientific knowledge that ancient people could have no way of knowing) then your claim is equal to me claiming that Thor, Odin's son is real, and I know, because I feel it.

and AS I STATED, this was not for people that don't take the bible literally, because those type of arguments, ALMOST ALWAYS come back to what you just stated "I just feel". faith and feelings, no good here I'm afraid. also, the "you have to believe before you can truly believe" nonsense, I'm amazed you can even make that argument. I was a Christian, but somehow, the more I looked at it, the more it seemed just the mad ramblings of desert tribes people. Since you claimed I am an Atheist, I would say I think the probability of some sort of higher being is fairly likely (as it would explain certain things about existence), but there is no way of knowing.
 
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Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
ah, so you fall back onto an unapproachable defensive position. the only challenge i can make, is that the human brain is fully capable of malfunctioning to the point where people believe in false realities, people develop dual personalities, bizarre and extreme mental cases. If the human brain is capable of that, with all the complicated mass of brain matter, chemicals and what not, saying you have a "feeling" files in right along side every other mild form of insanity. If you can't show any probability though this god's only holy book, (showing how prophecies have or haven't been fulfilled would be a big one, or medical or scientific knowledge that ancient people could have no way of knowing) then your claim is equal to me claiming that Thor, Odin's son is real, and I know, because I feel it.
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like I said and your answer shows...you dont get it....and you never will.....and it has nothing to do with the brain but all with the heart...and a certain feeling inside our souls.....and without this feeling I would feel very empty inside. So seems to me that you started this thread not for answers but to insult anyone that is a believer.....I find it a strange thing that atheists are always asking why....when they really don't care at all why.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
an example to follow? an example? as in, every way god acted was an example? or just that tiny bit with Jesus? though, since they are part or, or THE same being, it really doesn't matter.

in this case, mass genocide becomes utterly acceptable.
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The world was given free will .....to turn away from God if it so chose.......it did. We live (and they lived) in a fallen world. God tells us that Lucifer himself - the epitome of evil - is the "Prince of this world". God simply promised that judgement would befall those who chose to adopt the ways of the world and that he would "turn them over" to their own lusts, desires, and various sins. You can blame God for all of the evil that has befallen these people........but He actually gave people a "way out" of the suffering, the brutality, and the evil. This was simply a case of God making good on one of his promises. He didn't "create" the evil and the sin..........he simply gave man over to his own whims and ultimately.........to his own suffering. :shrug:
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
The world was given free will .....to turn away from God if it so chose.......it did. We live (and they lived) in a fallen world. God tells us that Lucifer himself - the epitome of evil - is the "Prince of this world". God simply promised that judgement would befall those who chose to adopt the ways of the world and that he would "turn them over" to their own lusts, desires, and various sins. You can blame God for all of the evil that has befallen these people........but He actually gave people a "way out" of the suffering, the brutality, and the evil. This was simply a case of God making good on one of his promises. He didn't "create" the evil and the sin..........he simply gave man over to his own whims and ultimately.........to his own suffering. :shrug:
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I can blame god (if the stories are to believed) for ordering the jews to kill other nations down to the last man women and child. i can blame him for the evil practice of the genital mutilation of babies, I can blame him for supporting slavery, and the subjugation of women, and gays. But i'm not blaming religion for all the evil in the world here.

you don't see the utter silliness, of creating man, looking at it, thinking "eh, flood, kill em all," because they were "sinning", despite the fact such a god would have to know man kind would revert right back to its old ways, not to mention the fact that it shows the god of the bible regretted something he did (i think it actually says so), showing he is not perfect, even by his own measuring.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
I can blame god (if the stories are to believed) for ordering the jews to kill other nations down to the last man women and child. i can blame him for the evil practice of the genital mutilation of babies, I can blame him for supporting slavery, and the subjugation of women, and gays. But i'm not blaming religion for all the evil in the world here.

you don't see the utter silliness, of creating man, looking at it, thinking "eh, flood, kill em all," because they were "sinning", despite the fact such a god would have to know man kind would revert right back to its old ways, not to mention the fact that it shows the god of the bible regretted something he did (i think it actually says so), showing he is not perfect, even by his own measuring.
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"a way out" that has ZERO evidence (not proof) EVIDENCE, zero actual evidence for it, just vague claims of vague feelings in your head. amazing.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
"a way out" that has ZERO evidence (not proof) EVIDENCE, zero actual evidence for it, just vague claims of vague feelings in your head. amazing.
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What makes you think the feelings are "vague"? This is obviously coming from someone who's never experienced true faith......sorry. Also, I've NEVER once, anywhere on this entire forum, made the claim that I could ever provide any demonstrable, empirical evidence that would lead any of you to believe in the existence of God. God never asked his believers to go into the world and "prove his existence scientifically." It kind of goes against the whole idea of "Faith." God reveals himself to those who truly seek him out for the RIGHT reasons. If you ever truly come to that point.......you and I may be having an entirely different conversation........but until then........happy hunting! :D
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Why exactly would a god need a mortal to believe that it exists before this god would reveal itself?

Perhaps this god the Christians keep telling us about is a complete moron? I mean if this god just said hey I exist there would be no need for faith and since no one could deny it. And the devil/Lucifer/Satan would just look like a fool. No sane person would follow evil when good is so obvious. It would be a no brainer. Yet this god cant even convince his faithful flock to follow good.

Repent repent. Fall to your knees faithful servants of an stupid god that cant even figure out that all he needs to do is just tell people he exists rather than demand some ego trip faith based charade. Yep even infants have freewill as they are eaten by the evil ones. Burn baby burn.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
The part toward the end, about eating her children, and the afterbirth.


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49 “The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as the eagle swoops down, a nation whose language you shall not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance who will have no respect for the old, nor show favor to the young. 51 Moreover, it shall eat the [ae]offspring of your herd and the produce of your ground until you are destroyed, who also leaves you no grain, new wine, or oil, nor the increase of your herd or the young of your flock until they have caused you to perish. 52 It shall besiege you in all your [af]towns until your high and fortified walls in which you trusted come down throughout your land, and it shall besiege you in all your [ag]towns throughout your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 Then you shall eat the [ah]offspring of your own body, the flesh of your sons and of your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will [ai]oppress you. 54 The man who is [aj]refined and very delicate among you [ak]shall be hostile toward his brother and toward the wife [al]he cherishes and toward the rest of his children who remain, 55 so that he will not give even one of them any of the flesh of his children which he will eat, since he has nothing else left, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will [am]oppress you in all your [an]towns. 56 The [ao]refined and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground for delicateness and [ap]refinement, [aq]shall be hostile toward the husband [ar]she cherishes and toward her son and daughter, 57 and toward her afterbirth which issues from between her [as]legs and toward her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of anything else, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will [at]oppress you in your [au]towns.-------http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+28&version=NASB

Now, even if you say, "oh well, thats just because the enemy was laying siege agains them", that doesn't defend "god" at all. He sent the army, he set the line of events in place, that would DIRECTLY lead to such a horrid thing, which in and of itself, seems impossible without god forcing the woman to eat her young in the first place, considering most mothers would rather starve to death, before they would eat any of their children. And if you say its just god using harsh language to make sure the Jews follow his commandments, is that how he rules? Through intimidation and fear? Sure, Jesus never said stuff like this, he just prolongs the judgement till the final end, and you will receive punishments in hell like this. Besides the fact, god, jesus, or whomever, never says in any sense, that these actions and threats were wrong, or even bad.

Please, tell me how you can sit there, and say "I love this god, I worship him, I am his slave, and I will do his bidding"?
It personally disgusts me, and even if this god did exist, I would never follow him for being so evil, I would never follow ANYTHING OR ANYONE who ruled like this. Thank "god" this wretched evil entity doesn't exist.
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I'm neither Christian nor Jewish, but as Baha'i, I believe Moses was an important prophet who received his wisdom from God.

I believe you have to look at the historical context. First, the OT/Penthateuch was not written by Moses himself, but by people ca. 700 years later after the stories had been passed on orally. Because of that, I would be careful weighing every word literally. The text probably tells less about the real teachings of Moses and God's demands, than about the image the Jewish people had of God hundreds of years later.

But assuming the text is essentially unchanged, I'd argue with the concept of "progressive revelation": God has given man freedom of will. Because of that, there is evil on the world and man needs guidance. Every couple of centuries, God sends another prophet to renew religion. Every time, the respective prophet will use words and concepts that are suited for the people in the respective historical context. When you teach a six year old first grader, you can't start with high school mathematics. The same with mankind. You have to go step by step. That's what God was and is doing.

Rules and commandments that appear barbaric and cruel to us today, actually were a progress thousands of years ago. The situation in which the Jewish people lived after the escape from Egypt was extremely tough and violent. They were clans in the bronze age, struggling for mere survival. God couldn't change that without denying man the free will, so all He did was giving them the best possible orders under these circumstances.

That included murder on the members of other clans. It was simply a matter of "kill, or be killed". There was no other option. There was no police, no legal system, no state, certainly not a United Nations. ;) It was just a bunch of clan members with their extended families struggling for mere survival. So God gave them the best orders he could give them.

Of course these rules are long obsolete today. Prophets who came later "updated" God's religion, such as Jesus, for example. Baha'i believe the most recent "update" was made by Baha'u'llah, the founder of the Baha'i religion in 19th century Persia.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
What makes you think the feelings are "vague"? This is obviously coming from someone who's never experienced true faith......sorry. Also, I've NEVER once, anywhere on this entire forum, made the claim that I could ever provide any demonstrable, empirical evidence that would lead any of you to believe in the existence of God. God never asked his believers to go into the world and "prove his existence scientifically." It kind of goes against the whole idea of "Faith." God reveals himself to those who truly seek him out for the RIGHT reasons. If you ever truly come to that point.......you and I may be having an entirely different conversation........but until then........happy hunting! :D
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I, at one point, in my life, was so "into god" as a christian, that I literally, of my own free will, rejected all things worldly that I thought hurt my faith. I remember feeling a sense of joy and contentment in church, closing my eyes and singing to god. I did all that. But, the funny thing is, the feelings I felt in church, or while praying, the little assurance and strength I did get, was MINUSCULE compared to the near unlimited power I felt when listening to heavy metal, and death metal. Thats what got me off of god, and soon after, I was introduced to the logical fallacies of such a god, and the scientific improbabilities of all I had once believed to be true. So, don't tell me what I did or didn't experience.

I think I already stated this, but the ability of the mind, for that is ALL we really are, is all within the complexities of the brain, we know, is capable to construct mass delusions, entirely false realities, to malfunction on such a level, that we have things like dual personalities. What is more likely, that your brain allows you to feel certain things (that most people are raised with from birth to believe) because you think they are true and real (much like the placebo effect), or that the entire nature of the universe is suspended, in YOUR FAVOR?

Also, the bible does of course tell christians to spread the good word. Now, according to such beliefs, god gave us immense logical reasoning abilities, deductive reasoning abilities, complex thought and the ability to question the nature of the universe, AND THE ability to explain much of it in ways no other species could EVER hope to. The ability to advance science, to form theories, question them, change them, to be skeptical, to question everything, all of which has led to the incredible technologies and advances we have made in human history. BUT, according to what you just said (and correct me if I am wrong, which I'm not) that god didn't intend to have all of these abilities directed at determining his own validity of existence. Don't you see that contradicts everything we know about the higher levels of human nature, of human intellect, also, according to you, put there by god.
 
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Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
Also, the bible does of course tell christians to spread the good word. Now, according to such beliefs, god gave us immense logical reasoning abilities, deductive reasoning abilities, complex thought and the ability to question the nature of the universe, AND THE ability to explain much of it in ways no other species could EVER hope to. The ability to advance science, to form theories, question them, change them, to be skeptical, to question everything, all of which has led to the incredible technologies and advances we have made in human history. BUT, according to what you just said (and correct me if I am wrong, which I'm not) that god didn't intend to have all of these abilities directed at determining his own validity of existence. Don't you see that contradicts everything we know about the higher levels of human nature, of human intellect, also, according to you, put there by god.
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And as I also stated, and you seem to have skipped completely over this part......God gave us free will.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
I, at one point, in my life, was so "into god" as a christian, that I literally, of my own free will, rejected all things worldly that I thought hurt my faith. I remember feeling a sense of joy and contentment in church, closing my eyes and singing to god. I did all that. But, the funny thing is, the feelings I felt in church, or while praying, the little assurance and strength I did get, was MINUSCULE compared to the near unlimited power I felt when listening to heavy metal, and death metal. Thats what got me off of god, and soon after, I was introduced to the logical fallacies of such a god, and the scientific improbabilities of all I had once believed to be true. So, don't tell me what I did or didn't experience.

I think I already stated this, but the ability of the mind, for that is ALL we really are, is all within the complexities of the brain, we know, is capable to construct mass delusions, entirely false realities, to malfunction on such a level, that we have things like dual personalities. What is more likely, that your brain allows you to feel certain things (that most people are raised with from birth to believe) because you think they are true and real (much like the placebo effect), or that the entire nature of the universe is suspended, in YOUR FAVOR?

Also, the bible does of course tell christians to spread the good word. Now, according to such beliefs, god gave us immense logical reasoning abilities, deductive reasoning abilities, complex thought and the ability to question the nature of the universe, AND THE ability to explain much of it in ways no other species could EVER hope to. The ability to advance science, to form theories, question them, change them, to be skeptical, to question everything, all of which has led to the incredible technologies and advances we have made in human history. BUT, according to what you just said (and correct me if I am wrong, which I'm not) that god didn't intend to have all of these abilities directed at determining his own validity of existence. Don't you see that contradicts everything we know about the higher levels of human nature, of human intellect, also, according to you, put there by god.
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I don't just believe that GOD exists I feel inside my soul that he does...I am no toten(sp) radical bible hugger that many that don't believe in GOD feel most Christians or followers are, we feel GOD, and we just know he is there.....and for one to loose their faith as you did....that felt more from heavy metal music and Death metal says to me that you were taking the words they were singing against GOD as much of it does.... as literal. It is not up to GOD to make your life better...that is on you....he is not their to give you power...that is on you.....he is not their to give you riches...that is on you. God is not a thing that can be measured by scientific improbabilities.....you either believe or you don't believe....you either feel it to be so in your soul...or you don't.

For an example ...my one son has 3 bibles goes to church and has thought about being a Pastor....my other son is "God Who? one son cant get enough of learning about GOD the other has no desire to...it is not up to me to make him believe as it is not for me to make my other son not believe...we brought God to them and let them learn or not learn from there.....I will never ever try to convince an atheist that GOD exists just as one cant make be believe EVER that he does not. GOD has a personal relationship with the believer...and that is something that one has to find or not find on their own.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
And as I also stated, and you seem to have skipped completely over this part......God gave us free will.
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free will? to ignore our logical faculties, and follow a self imposed impulse from our own brain? you did say, god doesn't ask you believers to prove or apparently even provide evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his existence. the free will part was not really worth addressing,i think what i just said is sufficient enough.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Politicaladdict said:
I don't just believe that GOD exists I feel inside my soul that he does...I am no toten(sp) radical bible hugger that many that don't believe in GOD feel most Christians or followers are, we feel GOD, and we just know he is there.....and for one to loose their faith as you did....that felt more from heavy metal music and Death metal says to me that you were taking the words they were singing against GOD as much of it does.... as literal. It is not up to GOD to make your life better...that is on you....he is not their to give you power...that is on you.....he is not their to give you riches...that is on you. God is not a thing that can be measured by scientific improbabilities.....you either believe or you don't believe....you either feel it to be so in your soul...or you don't.

For an example ...my one son has 3 bibles goes to church and has thought about being a Pastor....my other son is "God Who? one son cant get enough of learning about GOD the other has no desire to...it is not up to me to make him believe as it is not for me to make my other son not believe...we brought God to them and let them learn or not learn from there.....I will never ever try to convince an atheist that GOD exists just as one cant make be believe EVER that he does not. GOD has a personal relationship with the believer...and that is something that one has to find or not find on their own.
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I am very amused, though not surprised, at your lack of knowledge of heavy metal/death metal, most of which contains little mention of god. its understandable though, you only swallow the stereotype given you by society. sure, there are some bands that have some songs that could be considered anti religious. My point was the music itself, literally saved me from deep depression, the bible, and god, came no where close to that, no matter how hard I prayed. Keep in mind, this is not my only reason for not believing, though it was the initial spark that got me on that road, that made me question the almightily dictator. You say its on god to give me anything. despite the bible, over and over again, promises aid to those who ask, the metaphorical mentioning about "faith of a mustard seed, and move mountains" bit. but for some reason, a bunch of scraggily haired teen agers from the 1980s (Metallica) playing music, gets in my soul only about infinity times more than any religious nonsense i once felt.

I would point you to my above comments about "feeling" its true, in your "soul" which really isn't real, everything you are comes from your brain. Here is what I already said on the matter, twice actually, though, maybe not to you.

---I think I already stated this, but the ability of the mind, for that is ALL we really are, is all within the complexities of the brain, we know, is capable to construct mass delusions, entirely false realities, to malfunction on such a level, that we have things like dual personalities. What is more likely, that your brain allows you to feel certain things (that most people are raised with from birth to believe) because you think they are true and real (much like the placebo effect), or that the entire nature of the universe is suspended, in YOUR FAVOR?---

and by your logic then, you can never claim that any other belief based only on faith is wrong, their belief being as strong, or possibly stronger than your own.
 
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Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
free will? to ignore our logical faculties, and follow a self imposed impulse from our own brain? you did say, god doesn't ask you believers to prove or apparently even provide evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his existence. the free will part was not really worth addressing,i think what i just said is sufficient enough.
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You misquote me here dramatically. The bolded part was completely your addition. Christ did command us to "defend the joy that is within us". Never does God, nor Christ ask believers to defend his existence according to the laws of nature (ie, using empirical, demonstrable, and peer-reviewed evidence).....we are, however, commanded to make our lives a "living witness" for the mercy and grace which has been shown us and to share that grace and mercy with others.

To address your questions.......................have you ever "fallen in love" with another person? Is "love" always logical or rational? If not.....then yes....we are given free will to act as rationl or irrational as we so choose. :shrug:
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
You misquote me here dramatically. The bolded part was completely your addition. Christ did command us to "defend the joy that is within us". Never does God, nor Christ ask believers to defend his existence according to the laws of nature (ie, using empirical, demonstrable, and peer-reviewed evidence).....we are, however, commanded to make our lives a "living witness" for the mercy and grace which has been shown us and to share that grace and mercy with others.

To address your questions.......................have you ever "fallen in love" with another person? Is "love" always logical or rational? If not.....then yes....we are given free will to act as rationl or irrational as we so choose. :shrug:
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Love is the result of our species need to reproduce. God clearly commands you to spread his word, to convert others. How do you do this within the parameters you have set for yourself? I added in the "circumstantial or otherwise" to clearly note, that you failed to provide either for any justification of your belief.

But why are you not answering any of my points I wonder.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
You misquote me here dramatically. The bolded part was completely your addition. Christ did command us to "defend the joy that is within us". Never does God, nor Christ ask believers to defend his existence according to the laws of nature (ie, using empirical, demonstrable, and peer-reviewed evidence).....we are, however, commanded to make our lives a "living witness" for the mercy and grace which has been shown us and to share that grace and mercy with others.

To address your questions.......................have you ever "fallen in love" with another person? Is "love" always logical or rational? If not.....then yes....we are given free will to act as rationl or irrational as we so choose. :shrug:
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Many people do good things, some far greater and better than any christian does, but that doesn't make them right. I have found Mormons to be the most sincere and "nice" and overall most moral of the faiths, the friendliest, but if you are a real christian, you wouldn't use that as a reason to follow their faith.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
Love is the result of our species need to reproduce.
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Really? Can I please, please have permission to use this one as my sig line? :lol:

Women around the world would love to hear you say that and Charles Darwin and any number of thousands of anthropologists, as well as zoologists would probably disagree with you.
 
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Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
Really? Can I please, please have permission to use this one as my sig line? :lol:

Women around the world would love to hear you say that and Charles Darwin and any number of thousands of anthropologists, as well as naturalists would probably disagree with you.
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Take away, those chemicals in your body, and this notion of "love", as it relates to the opposite sex in common usage, would dissolve fairly quickly. that is what you are talking about, is it not? natural solidarity and great friendship which in this society may be considered a sort of "love" are normal, explainable emotions.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

FluffyNinja said:
Really? Can I please, please have permission to use this one as my sig line? :lol:

Women around the world would love to hear you say that and Charles Darwin and any number of thousands of anthropologists, as well as naturalists would probably disagree with you.
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You are really tiring me out, please respond to my points about the mind constructing innumerable falsities, or any of my other ones in previous statements.
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

you will never ever find the answers you want because you are an Atheist looking for your question to be explained in words .....no matter what anyone says to you, you will just keep going around in circles. No one can give you faith....no one can really explain their faith in words to a non believer...the only ones that get the words are those that talk the words from one believer to another.....we get it.......so if you are here to try and convince us who have faith that it is illogical and delusional to feel that way...you will never convince us of that.....and you cant change our minds to your way of thinking. Aint gonna happen :mrgreen:
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Crossroads said:
Take away, those chemicals in your body, and this notion of "love", as it relates to the opposite sex in common usage, would dissolve fairly quickly. that is what you are talking about, is it not? natural solidarity and great friendship which in this society may be considered a sort of "love" are normal, explainable emotions.
Click to expand...

No, beyond the sex or the "desire to reproduce".....I'm talking about that willingness to lay down your life for a child that you don't even know......that dull ache in the pit of your stomach when you have to leave the ones you care about for a year-long deployment half-way around the world......the willingness to give up your time, money, and energy to make one other, specific person happy. I'm talking about total selflessness........putting aside your survival extinct and your competitive nature and making yourself totally vulnerable to a bombardment of emotions........and so much more that I can't fully explain. That's what I mean by "love". The kind of love that Christ exemplified. :shrug:
 
Re: I really want to know how a Christian, or Jew, can defend this act by their god..

Politicaladdict said:
you will never ever find the answers you want because you are an Atheist looking for your question to be explained in words .....no matter what anyone says to you, you will just keep going around in circles. No one can give you faith....no one can really explain their faith in words to a non believer...the only ones that get the words are those that talk the words from one believer to another.....we get it.......so if you are here to try and convince us who have faith that it is illogical and delusional to feel that way...you will never convince us of that.....and you cant change our minds to your way of thinking. Aint gonna happen :mrgreen:
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and I believe Thor, son of Odin, is real. why? cause I feel it.

I'll end with this, if these beliefs were not so wide spread, in fact, if they didn't exist, and someone out of no where, started saying all of this crap, all of it, all the stories in the bible, all the prophecy, the Jesus story, all of it, they would be viewed as mentally unstable. a hypothetical to be sure, but can you deny that I wonder?
 
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