Thread: Which is more selfish?

One of the most common topics surrounding suicide is selfishness. The main argument is that suicide is selfish and thereby makes the person committing in cowardly and generally a 'bad' person in some way. However, people rarely talk about the selfishness of wanting someone in pain to stay alive - probably because the conversation around suicide is left predominantly to the loved ones of those who have committed or attempted suicide, so the question:

Which is more selfish?

1. Committing suicide and leaving your loved ones in pain.
2. Wanting your suicidal loved one to stay alive in pain for your sake.

Why?

Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive

One of the most common topics surrounding suicide is selfishness. The main argument is that suicide is selfish and thereby makes the person committing in cowardly and generally a 'bad' person in some way. However, people rarely talk about the selfishness of wanting someone in pain to stay alive - probably because the conversation around suicide is left predominantly to the loved ones of those who have committed or attempted suicide, so the question:

Which is more selfish?

1. Committing suicide and leaving your loved ones in pain.
2. Wanting your suicidal loved one to stay alive in pain for your sake.

Why?

There's no good answer here. As with so many decisions we have to make in life, "It depends."

Why does the person want to commit suicide? Intractable pain suffered from a terminal illness? I'd answer #2. Depression? I'd answer #1.

But I don't particularly like your choices. A person who doesn't want to see a loved one commit suicide is rarely motivated by "for your own sake."

Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive

One of the most common topics surrounding suicide is selfishness. The main argument is that suicide is selfish and thereby makes the person committing in cowardly and generally a 'bad' person in some way. However, people rarely talk about the selfishness of wanting someone in pain to stay alive - probably because the conversation around suicide is left predominantly to the loved ones of those who have committed or attempted suicide, so the question:

Which is more selfish?

1. Committing suicide and leaving your loved ones in pain.
2. Wanting your suicidal loved one to stay alive in pain for your sake.

Why?

Neither.

I consider that, since whichever combination of events/experiences have culminated in such unspeakable agony as to drive one to self destruction, such sanctimonious concepts as 'selfishness' are in themselves selfish. Not to mention simplistic and juvenile.

Originally Posted by NoC_T

Neither.

I consider that, since whichever combination of events/experiences have culminated in such unspeakable agony as to drive one to self destruction, such sanctimonious concepts as 'selfishness' are in themselves selfish. Not to mention simplistic and juvenile.

That's a good point. I've never thought of it that way. When you think about it, it does seem irrational to reduce such a serious and complex reality to selfishness which suggests that those who do the reduction minimize the reality for their own comfort.

Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive

That's a good point. I've never thought of it that way. When you think about it, it does seem irrational to reduce such a serious and complex reality to selfishness which suggests that those who do the reduction minimize the reality for their own comfort.

I wasn't suggesting that you're selfish btw. Merely that attributing selfishness to suicide it in itself selfish.

I don't agree with the view that suicide in general is selfish.

But it certainly can be selfish. For example, when a parent commits suicide, it can be especially devastating to any children left behind (sadly, yes, this does happen). Children have a very difficult time understanding death, let alone suicide and often misinterpret their parents suicide in a way that leaves deep and long-lasting psychological scars.

I think everyone has a right to do what they want with their life, including end it. Suicide is a personal decision. But it's one that shouldn't be made without a lot of careful thought. What effect your suicide is going to have on your loved ones is something that needs to be considered.

Ultimately suicide is selfish. It does not matter if you are in pain or not. Suicide is indeed a personal decision, the person can try to reason that they are going to kill them self for some other reason. But in the end the decision was a closed decision no one else was a part of the decision to their your own life that was ended. And even if they thought they were killing them self for some valiant reason its only a delusion. They die out of the want to give up. And that is what suicide is its giving up no longer trying. Its taking the easy way out. As soon as the deed is done it is clear that they only cared about one person and that was them self. Yes it was their choice and that is my point, it was a selfish decision.

But in certain circumstances assisted suicide is humane. Other than those suicides all other suicides are stupid and perhaps they were even correct in their judgement that the world would be better off without them. My uncle and several friends all separately decided to kill themselves rather than face life. While my Dad didnt give up even though going into surgery he had next to no chance of surviving. The decision is personal and very selfish even in my Dads case when he decided to try to stay alive. His last lesson to me was to never give up. But even to not give up is selfish on a personal level.

lulz

Yeah. Let's measure a suicidal individual's capacity to be rational and recognise accountability.

While we're at it, let's overhaul the entire study of abnormal psychology, to include personal responsibility. That should help put schizophrenia in perspective. So they might believe that their pet goldfish is urging them to kill people. They're still responsible for taking the feelings of others into consideration, right?

Originally Posted by NoC_T

lulz

Yeah. Let's measure a suicidal individual's capacity to be rational and recognise accountability.

While we're at it, let's overhaul the entire study of abnormal psychology, to include personal responsibility. That should help put schizophrenia in perspective. So they might believe that their pet goldfish is urging them to kill people. They're still responsible for taking the feelings of others into consideration, right?

The mentally ill were not included in anything that I said. Seriously did I even mention schizophrenia? Perhaps I should have been more clear that I was excluding them. But the conversation assumed that a person committing suicide is making a decision. Mentally ill people do not make decisions in any productive way. So I assumed that we were not talking about mentally ill people, but stupid people or separately terminally ill people.

But certainly people that have metal conditions that does not allow them to make rational decisions are not selfish if they kill them self. I would say that they were mentally ill instead.

Neither is selfish. Suicides are typically highly irrational at the time they take their lives. They aren't thinking about the ramifications of said action, just wanting an end to their miserable state of mind.
People who have an ill loved one are not selfish in wanting their loved one to be alive. They are in the state of loving another, and it's perfectly natural not to want to face the loss.