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Do Demons Exist?

Paleocon said:
Are there any instances where ten people died to persuade another that their belief was true, even when they knew it to be false?
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You're just splitting hairs now.

All we're really talking about here are people willing to die over something they believe in.

We're not children here. We don't need exact examples in order to have to concede that, yes, people do do such a thing all the time.

Purported pieces of scripture were dismissed because they were fraudulently authored.
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Or so said the guys consolidating the power of a religious movement several hundred years after those documents were written and given none of the forensic or anthropological/archeological that we would require today in order to prove provenance.

And George Bush could be a reptilian shape shifting alien who feasts on the blood of humans and who is involved is an Illuminati pedophile ring (yes there are people who actually believe that). These baseless speculations are just that, speculations, unless there is some evidence to back them up.
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The claims of the Bible are just like those "reptilian shape shifting alien" claims.

Suspect until proven factual.

There is no evidence to support many supernatural Biblical claims, and I'm sorry but you haven't provided any here.

The tenuous likelihood that something may have happened a particular way because "why would people claim something that isn't true" doesn't even begin to approach the level that would be required as proof positive.

Please prove that the civil war happened, and I'll show you the problem with your concept of proof.
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LOL

Now you're just talking crazy dude.
 
soot said:
You're just splitting hairs now.

All we're really talking about here are people willing to die over something they believe in.

We're not children here. We don't need exact examples in order to have to concede that, yes, people do do such a thing all the time.



Or so said the guys consolidating the power of a religious movement several hundred years after those documents were written and given none of the forensic or anthropological/archeological that we would require today in order to prove provenance.



The claims of the Bible are just like those "reptilian shape shifting alien" claims.

Suspect until proven factual.

There is no evidence to support many supernatural Biblical claims, and I'm sorry but you haven't provided any here.

The tenuous likelihood that something may have happened a particular way because "why would people claim something that isn't true" doesn't even begin to approach the level that would be required as proof positive.



LOL

Now you're just talking crazy dude.
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Except if they were lying then that would mean that they didn't actually believe in it, whereas the people who hid Jews actually did believe in their purpose.

When ten people all claim to have seen the same direct evidence of the reptilian shape shifters, and all willingly die for their belief, get back to me on the comparison.

Nice dodge.
 
soot said:
What, exactly, am I dodging?
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My demonstration of the absurdity of your understanding of what constitutes proof.
 
Paleocon said:
My demonstration of the absurdity of your understanding of what constitutes proof.
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Right.

Well, provide some proof and we'll revisit this.

So far you've failed miserably.
 
soot said:
Right.

Well, provide some proof and we'll revisit this.

So far you've failed miserably.
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Can you prove that the civil war happened?
 
soot said:
Sure.

There's plenty of evidence.

Start here:

Civil War

Samuel Proctor Oral History Program » University of Florida

Now, am I going to waste my time doing so to whatever absurd standard you would consider proving it to your satisfaction?

No. Of course not.

Because there's no comparison between the Civil War and a bunch of marginalized people making supernatural claims 2000 years ago.
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But how do we know all those people aren't just lying, or repeating lies they heard from others?
 
Paleocon said:
Can you prove that the civil war happened?
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The old "How do you know, you weren't there" gibberish? There is plenty of evidence of the Civil War in battlefields around the nation. There is NO evidence for demons or God at all. In fact the more we know the less the chance that God exists. When you die you go the same place as all other living things on Earth....back to dirt. You'll figure that out eventually, we all do.
 
iguanaman said:
The old "How do you know, you weren't there" gibberish? There is plenty of evidence of the Civil War in battlefields around the nation. There is NO evidence for demons or God at all. In fact the more we know the less the chance that God exists. When you die you go the same place as all other living things on Earth....back to dirt. You'll figure that out eventually, we all do.
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But those battlefields could have been faked.
 
Paleocon said:
But those battlefields could have been faked.
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For the sake of argument I'm perfectly willing to concede that they may have been faked.

You mentioned intellectual honesty earlier.

If I'm willing to concede that the Civil War may not have happened, by the standards and metrics you provide, then you must, in the interest of intellectual honesty, be willing to concede that by the same standard that the Resurrection may not have happened.

Understand, I'm not asking you to denounce your faith-based belief in the Resurrection and everything it has come to represent.

I recognize your right to have faith in anything that you want to have faith in.

But you have to drop this pretense of proof.
 
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soot said:
For the sake of argument I'm perfectly willing to concede that they may have been faked.

You mentioned intellectual honesty earlier.

If I'm willing to concede that the Civil War may not have happened, by the standards and metrics you provide, then you must, in the interest of intellectual honesty, be willing to concede that by the same standard that the Resurrection may not have happened.

Understand, I'm not asking you to denounce your faith-belief in the Resurrection and everything it has come to represent.

But you have to drop this pretense of proof.
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:doh

You missed the point. Both the Resurrection and the civil war can be questioned as to their occurrence by those who wish to not believe they happened, however such is unreasonable.
 
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