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Pitbulls

MyOwnDrum

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We're having an issue in our neighborhood regarding a Pitbull. I'm against this breed, having been bitten by a Pitbull in an unprovoked attack. I believe they are a violence prone breed. I have two dogs myself, a Bab and a order Collie/Australian Shepherd.

# The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls.

# In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.

# From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.

# In a study reported by a retired professor from California State University at Chino, Robert Plum, it was found that one dog in 55 will bite someone seriously during the course of a year. With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds.

Dog Bite Statistics from dogexpert.com
 
I am a dog expert, and I earned that title the hard way. As a power company employee I've literally dealt with thousands of dogs in someone else's yard, and furthermore have recieved professional training in dealing with dogs.

Pit bulls are not, to my experience, inherently vicious unless someone made them that way. That is not to say they are "safe", as NO DOG IS SAFE. Any dog, I don't give a rat's ### what breed, may bite under the right circumstances. The only dog that is 100% sure to never bite is one that has no teeth.

The problem with Pitts is twofold:
1. Many people DO deliberately make them vicious, with the intent of using them as guard dogs. Drug dealers are particularly prone to this, and many dealer houses will be literally surrounded with Pitts on chains so that you cannot approach without encountering at least one.
2. IF A PITT does "go bad" or attack someone they shouldn't have, the Pit-bull's incredible musculature and powerful jaws make him a deadly threat.

I have "known" probably a hundred or more Pitbulls. Many of them were sweet and friendly dogs. Some were vicious. I have been attacked by a Pitt, once. The attack was very serious, the dog tried to kill me with great persistence. I was forced to kill the dog to prevent him from killing me.

Despite this I don't automatically fear Pitbulls, instead I observe their behavior before getting out of the truck and determine whether they are a threat... most Pits are NOT if not provoked, unless they've been raised to be vicious as I said. If I judge them a threat, I don't fool with them. If a pitbull was in my yard and showed any sign of aggression I would shoot him immediately. A "Bad" pit is no joke.

Some people want to ban the breed. I wouldn't go that far, but possibly classifying them as a "dangerous breed" and holding owners in higher liability if they get loose and harm someone might be reasonable.
 
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Thanks for your imput. I'm on good terms with these neighbors but I've discussed my feeling about this young dog that belongs to the daughter who is 'temporarily' staying with them. They are of the lower strata of the white community in terms of education, and intelligence, if you know what I mean. ;)

The Pitbull has attacked another (weekender) neighbor's dog and is utterly untrained and unresponsive to the owner's command. Another neighbor informed me yesterday that the dog threatened her the other day while she was walking back from her job. She hoped I would speak to the neighbor, which I did. the neighbor informed me that they are now keeping the dog chained up. Meanwhile, the dog is remaining unneutered and is about 10 months old, and in my opinion is a timebomb.
 
Thanks for your imput. I'm on good terms with these neighbors but I've discussed my feeling about this young dog that belongs to the daughter who is 'temporarily' staying with them. They are of the lower strata of the white community in terms of education, and intelligence, if you know what I mean. ;)

The Pitbull has attacked another (weekender) neighbor's dog and is utterly untrained and unresponsive to the owner's command. Another neighbor informed me yesterday that the dog threatened her the other day while she was walking back from her job. She hoped I would speak to the neighbor, which I did. the neighbor informed me that they are now keeping the dog chained up. Meanwhile, the dog is remaining unneutered and is about 10 months old, and in my opinion is a timebomb.


The Pitbull that tried to kill me was on a chain also. It broke, suddenly, and suddenly is a good word for the life-and-death situation I found myself in.

Dogs have instinctive drives. Some dogs have stronger drives than others. They may be fear-driven, territorial, or predatory. A dog with strong predatory drives is an extremely dangerous animal, especially if he is a large dog.

A Pit that is wandering the neighborhood and acting aggressive towards people in public spaces (ie not the dog's own yard) is no joke.

Like I said, if he showed up in my yard and acted the least bit aggressive, I'd shoot him immediately and the owner will just have to suck it up. I like dogs, for that matter I like Pitbulls overall, but I don't take chances with something whose potential threat level is that high.

If he ever is seen wandering the neighborhood again and acts anything but deferential to any humans he encounters, a call to Animal Control would not be amiss.
 
The Pitbull that tried to kill me was on a chain also. It broke, suddenly, and suddenly is a good word for the life-and-death situation I found myself in.

Dogs have instinctive drives. Some dogs have stronger drives than others. They may be fear-driven, territorial, or predatory. A dog with strong predatory drives is an extremely dangerous animal, especially if he is a large dog.

A Pit that is wandering the neighborhood and acting aggressive towards people in public spaces (ie not the dog's own yard) is no joke.

Like I said, if he showed up in my yard and acted the least bit aggressive, I'd shoot him immediately and the owner will just have to suck it up. I like dogs, for that matter I like Pitbulls overall, but I don't take chances with something whose potential threat level is that high.

If he ever is seen wandering the neighborhood again and acts anything but deferential to any humans he encounters, a call to Animal Control would not be amiss.


Good grief! :shock:

Glad you're ok, G.

 
Let me say that this Pitbull non-responsive to human direction. I have extensive experience with dogs because I'm a walker and runner. They are universally easy to ward off with body language and verbal signals in my experience. This dog is impervious. It essentially ignores humans, including the owner, who has no influence over the dog.
I pray that it will stay on it's chain, but I'm fearful, which is a rarity in me.
 
when it comes to dogs, any failure in behavior of the dog, is due to lack of proper raising by the owner.

I have been with 2 pits. Lovely wonderful dogs
 
What is a Bab?

It is the human's fault when a dog attacks. Big dogs need responsible owners. I am against breed bans but I would be okay with mandatory dog training for large breeds.

The statistics are skewed. Chihuahuas and other little dogs bite people a lot. Nobody reports it because its not life threatening.

That dog should be neutered, especially if he is running free. Call animal control if you see him running free.
 
when it comes to dogs, any failure in behavior of the dog, is due to lack of proper raising by the owner.

I have been with 2 pits. Lovely wonderful dogs

In general, I agree with you. The majority of pits I've known were fine dogs and very friendly, unless someone was using them as a guard dog (and presumably made them aggressive on purpose).

I don't usually concern myself overmuch with a dog's breed, since dogs are individuals and every dog is unique. However...

Sometimes it seems like mixed-breed pits can be a problem though. I've known pit breeders who tell me it is a mistake to mix pits with any other breed.

I rescued a puppy once who turned out to be some kind of pit mix. He grew up as my son's best buddy. He was playful and happy, he loved me and loved my son and never showed the slightest sign of aggression...for the first year.

During the dog's first year of life we were pretty isolated out on the old farm, and almost never had visitors. The dog, Mack, almost never saw anyone but me and my son. Long story, on to the point:

One day we went for a walk on my property and came across my brother-in-law, who was fishing... and the dog suddenly went berserk. He attacked my BIL, who grabbed him defensively while I got him and pulled him off. I'd never seen him act that way.

After that we never let him go on walks without a leash, and it is a good thing. It turned out that Mack wanted to attack EVERY HUMAN BEING HE SAW except me and my son.

I installed a heavy-duty dog-run and took extra precautions to make sure Mack didn't get loose unsupervised. Still, that dog worried me. We'd never seen any previous sign of hostility, and he continued to treat me and my son as if we were his beloved family. He just hated the rest of the world.

I never did anything to make him mean or defensive, at least not on purpose, and I knew a thing or two about dogs even then. I speculate that the relative lack of human contact other than me and the boy in his first year had something to do with it, but the extreme aggression is all but inexplicable, unless it was somehow inborn.


Mack is dead now, rest his doggie soul, and we have a mild-mannered Lab and a little Pekinese, and I will never have another mix-breed Pit.
 
What is a Bab?

It is the human's fault when a dog attacks. Big dogs need responsible owners. I am against breed bans but I would be okay with mandatory dog training for large breeds.

The statistics are skewed. Chihuahuas and other little dogs bite people a lot. Nobody reports it because its not life threatening.

That dog should be neutered, especially if he is running free. Call animal control if you see him running free.

Exactly right. The little ones are the ones that get you most of the time. Sometime I'll tell the story about Why I'll never laugh at minature Dachshunds again.
 
What is a Bab?

It is the human's fault when a dog attacks. Big dogs need responsible owners. I am against breed bans but I would be okay with mandatory dog training for large breeds.

The statistics are skewed. Chihuahuas and other little dogs bite people a lot. Nobody reports it because its not life threatening.

That dog should be neutered, especially if he is running free. Call animal control if you see him running free.

Beer induced typo. ;)I meant 'Lab' and 'Border Collie' :rofl
 
It is impossible to train a dog perfectly for every situation it will ever encounter in its lifetime. When a dog is in a situation it wasn't trained for, it reverts to a natural or instinctual response. And pit bulls were bred to attack bears. Owning a pit bull is more dangerous than owning a handgun; a gun can never kill on its own.

I don't necessarily think they should be illegal. After all, we let certain people own tigers and snakes and wolves and you don't see those running loose very often. If you don't mind endangering your own life I am not going to stop you. But when one gets out there should be consequences.
 
In general, I agree with you. The majority of pits I've known were fine dogs and very friendly, unless someone was using them as a guard dog (and presumably made them aggressive on purpose).

I don't usually concern myself overmuch with a dog's breed, since dogs are individuals and every dog is unique. However...

Sometimes it seems like mixed-breed pits can be a problem though. I've known pit breeders who tell me it is a mistake to mix pits with any other breed.

I rescued a puppy once who turned out to be some kind of pit mix. He grew up as my son's best buddy. He was playful and happy, he loved me and loved my son and never showed the slightest sign of aggression...for the first year.

During the dog's first year of life we were pretty isolated out on the old farm, and almost never had visitors. The dog, Mack, almost never saw anyone but me and my son. Long story, on to the point:

One day we went for a walk on my property and came across my brother-in-law, who was fishing... and the dog suddenly went berserk. He attacked my BIL, who grabbed him defensively while I got him and pulled him off. I'd never seen him act that way.

After that we never let him go on walks without a leash, and it is a good thing. It turned out that Mack wanted to attack EVERY HUMAN BEING HE SAW except me and my son.

I installed a heavy-duty dog-run and took extra precautions to make sure Mack didn't get loose unsupervised. Still, that dog worried me. We'd never seen any previous sign of hostility, and he continued to treat me and my son as if we were his beloved family. He just hated the rest of the world.

I never did anything to make him mean or defensive, at least not on purpose, and I knew a thing or two about dogs even then. I speculate that the relative lack of human contact other than me and the boy in his first year had something to do with it, but the extreme aggression is all but inexplicable, unless it was somehow inborn.


Mack is dead now, rest his doggie soul, and we have a mild-mannered Lab and a little Pekinese, and I will never have another mix-breed Pit.

The problem with Mack is that he was not socialized. This was totally preventable. It has nothing to do with being a mixed breed. In actuality, pure breeds often are harder to work with because the energy and instincts are stronger.

I have a Rottweiler mix who is great with everyone. I had a lab rescue that wasn't socialized and he nipped my nieces face and bit through a vet tech's arm. It isn't the breed. They should have been socialized properly. Unfortunately in your situation, you should have had him on a leash and possibly muzzled when you started socializing him with your BIL.
 
It is impossible to train a dog perfectly for every situation it will ever encounter in its lifetime. When a dog is in a situation it wasn't trained for, it reverts to a natural or instinctual response. And pit bulls were bred to attack bears. Owning a pit bull is more dangerous than owning a handgun; a gun can never kill on its own.

I don't necessarily think they should be illegal. After all, we let certain people own tigers and snakes and wolves and you don't see those running loose very often. If you don't mind endangering your own life I am not going to stop you. But when one gets out there should be consequences.

Dogs have four responses to situations that make them anxious.

Fight, flight, avoidance, and submission. They can be taught submission is the correct choice. You have to gain their trust. Give them rules and limitations and plenty of exercise. You have to be the pack leader.
 
The problem with Mack is that he was not socialized. This was totally preventable. It has nothing to do with being a mixed breed. In actuality, pure breeds often are harder to work with because the energy and instincts are stronger.

I have a Rottweiler mix who is great with everyone. I had a lab rescue that wasn't socialized and he nipped my nieces face and bit through a vet tech's arm. It isn't the breed. They should have been socialized properly. Unfortunately in your situation, you should have had him on a leash and possibly muzzled when you started socializing him with your BIL.


Maybe. I've had other dogs who grew up on the farm and didn't see many strangers, and never had that level of problem.
 
Dogs have four responses to situations that make them anxious.

Fight, flight, avoidance, and submission. They can be taught submission is the correct choice. You have to gain their trust. Give them rules and limitations and plenty of exercise. You have to be the pack leader.

I agree. A good book on dog training is 'How to be Your Dog's Best Friend' by the Monks of New Skete.

33342274.JPG
 
Maybe. I've had other dogs who grew up on the farm and didn't see many strangers, and never had that level of problem.

Every dog is different. A lot of it depends on the temperament of the mother as she gives him his social skills early on. That's why dogs purchased from breeders should always be able to meet the mother and check the place out.

It may have been something as simple as your BIL making eye contact with him that made him feel threatened and he attacked him to protect you. It's a damn shame that something so innocent could possibly have gotten your BIL attacked. I'm sure you had no idea that it would happen or else you would have taken measures to prevent it. I don't mean to make you sound irresponsible, you had no idea. I just want to offer my opinion that it was not the breed, but lack of socialization. It can happen with Akitas, Mastiffs, Dachsunds ;), mutts, Saint Bernards, Newfoundlands, etc.

Did he have structured exercise?
 
I agree. A good book on dog training is 'How to be Your Dog's Best Friend' by the Monks of New Skete.

33342274.JPG

I'm reading Cesar Millan.

Thanks for the suggestion. I like to check out a lot of different philosophies.
 
Every dog is different. A lot of it depends on the temperament of the mother as she gives him his social skills early on. That's why dogs purchased from breeders should always be able to meet the mother and check the place out.

It may have been something as simple as your BIL making eye contact with him that made him feel threatened and he attacked him to protect you. It's a damn shame that something so innocent could possibly have gotten your BIL attacked. I'm sure you had no idea that it would happen or else you would have taken measures to prevent it. I don't mean to make you sound irresponsible, you had no idea. I just want to offer my opinion that it was not the breed, but lack of socialization. It can happen with Akitas, Mastiffs, Dachsunds ;), mutts, Saint Bernards, Newfoundlands, etc.

Did he have structured exercise?

The Monks of New Skete use a puppy evaluation tool to determine the pups propensities toward domination or submission. They recommend a middle of the road pup for the average family pet.
 
The Monks of New Skete use a puppy evaluation tool to determine the pups propensities toward domination or submission. They recommend a middle of the road pup for the average family pet.

Yes, they also do this for evaluating police, rescue, and tracking dogs.

The owner and the dog should also have matching energy levels.
 
Yes, they also do this for evaluating police, rescue, and tracking dogs.

The owner and the dog should also have matching energy levels.

Right. Unfortunately, many dog owners don't go into the relationship with much thought. They see a cute puppy and hope for the best.
 
Right. Unfortunately, many dog owners don't go into the relationship with much thought. They see a cute puppy and hope for the best.

Many people are ignorant when they first get a dog.

I know I was. I immediately studied up on it and learned about my mistakes along the way.
 
People who are "against" pit-bulls as a breed are just ignorant and uninformed.
They jump on the band wagon because they buy into everything that is force fed to them in the media.

Pit-Bulls were originally bred as "nanny-dogs" because they are great with children. They are very gentle and protective of children and their families.
Unfortunately, because they are powerful dogs, the media loves to portray them as monsters.
There may be a dozen attacks a year amongst thousands of dogs...and yet...communities get all up in arms because of the hype.

Here's a clue people....educate yourselves. Education is a great tool to dispel myths and fear....and a great tool for ignorance.
 
Thanks for your imput. I'm on good terms with these neighbors but I've discussed my feeling about this young dog that belongs to the daughter who is 'temporarily' staying with them. They are of the lower strata of the white community in terms of education, and intelligence, if you know what I mean. ;)

The Pitbull has attacked another (weekender) neighbor's dog and is utterly untrained and unresponsive to the owner's command. Another neighbor informed me yesterday that the dog threatened her the other day while she was walking back from her job. She hoped I would speak to the neighbor, which I did. the neighbor informed me that they are now keeping the dog chained up. Meanwhile, the dog is remaining unneutered and is about 10 months old, and in my opinion is a timebomb.

Chaining will make dogs mean.

If these people can't keep it indoors when they aren't home, and can't afford a good fence, (course the arrangement is always temporary), they can't afford the dog.

I'm sorry for this dog, cause it's future is bleak.:( Pitbulls are probably the most abused breed, and they are usually a very lovable breed.
 
People who are "against" pit-bulls as a breed are just ignorant and uninformed.
They jump on the band wagon because they buy into everything that is force fed to them in the media.

Pit-Bulls were originally bred as "nanny-dogs" because they are great with children. They are very gentle and protective of children and their families.
Unfortunately, because they are powerful dogs, the media loves to portray them as monsters.
There may be a dozen attacks a year amongst thousands of dogs...and yet...communities get all up in arms because of the hype.

Here's a clue people....educate yourselves. Education is a great tool to dispel myths and fear....and a great tool for ignorance.
Doing so will only lead to the same conclusion everyone already realizes: that pit bulls and (to a lesser extent) rottweilers are more dangerous than the other domestic breeds. Whether they attack more often is unclear. But the methods and severity of those attacks cause most of the serious injuries and fatalities. And those factors seem to be breed related.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog Attacks 1982 to 2006 Clifton.pdf
 
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