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Macabre story at the gun range today

WELL NOW, she was motivated.

I want to know why an attractive young woman wants to go.

Women dont often do the gun, so I wonder what is strange about this woman

But mostly what interests me is how narcissistic this woman is, what she is willing to do to this guy so that she can get what she wants. I have a feeling that she was quite the bitch.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
WELL NOW, she was motivated.

I want to know why an attractive young woman wants to go.

Women dont often do the gun, so I wonder what is strange about this woman

But mostly what interests me is how narcissistic this woman is, what she is willing to do to this guy so that she can get what she wants. I have a feeling that she was quite the bitch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I actually agree with you, here. That was a pretty messed up thing to do to that guy.
 
Renae said:
People find easy ways to off themselves that are quite selfish to those around them. Do it the right way, tie an anchor to your neck and throw yourself into deep ocean water.
Click to expand...

BUT.....at least leave a note behind.
 
- The Illinois Department of Human Services (IDHS) today announced new Firearm Owner Identification (FOID) Mental Health Reporting System requirements as part of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act (PA 98-063). IDHS plans to raise awareness of the new law that took effect on July 9, 2013, that requires a variety of clinicians and other health professionals to report patients who they believe pose a "clear and present danger" to themselves or others. The definition of "clear and present danger" has been clarified and the number of health professions required to report has been expanded under the new law.
"The new concealed carry law broadens the scope of the Illinois FOID Mental Health Reporting System, both [in terms of] who must report and what information they must report," IDHS Secretary Michelle R.B. Saddler said. "We are partnering with our sister state agencies and many statewide associations and others to ensure that clinicians and facilities understand the importance of the new reporting requirements."
The Illinois FOID Mental Health Reporting System is an online system administered by IDHS. It collects information on persons in Illinois who have been declared in court to be mentally disabled; admitted to an inpatient mental health facility within the last five years; determined to be a "clear and present danger" to themselves or others or determined to be developmentally disabled.
Click to expand...
DHS: IDHS Announces New FOID Mental Health Reporting Requirements

And mom is a mental health professional, maybe because she has long known that at least one of her kids has problems....

I am going to take a leap and say that this woman had likely been institutionalized in the last 5 years, at moms work, and that she was smart enough to know that this might jam up buying a gun. I picture her going to the gun range plan sorta pissed off that it came to this. Then she had to wait a day, making her even more pissed.

But why did she go through all this, why was she so determined to use the gun, which is a bit strange for a woman? That is something that I would like to know, it would tell us a lot about her I think.
 
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SmokeAndMirrors said:
It's an interesting one. I was reading recently about how the happiest people in the world are, in fact, people in some developing countries, especially in South America.

I've wondered about that for a long time. I've seen all these documentaries in these poor places in the world, yet everyone smiles and talks to one another, and even strangers, with total ease. In most of the developed world, smiles are much more rare, people are colder, more nervous, and do everything they can to block out their awareness of the people around them.

When I was taking classes about psychology, we learned that there are some developing countries or tribes that actually have a much better success rate than the West when it comes to helping schizophrenics, despite that they often have limited access to therapy and medication. They do it through community. And things like depression are actually quite rare.

Clearly we have easier lives in many respects. I have a fridge full of food, no concerns about still having my roof next month or even next year, I have an education, and health care. I'm not going to downplay their struggles for a moment.

Those people often don't have any of those things. Yet they're probably happier than I am. And I'm not an unhappy person by the standards of the society in which I live. But the fact is, now headed steadily towards 30, I no longer know *anyone* who hasn't had a problem with depression and/or anxiety at some point in their lives. I certainly don't know anyone who hasn't felt alone, despite living in these vast inter-connected webs of people.

Is that normal?

Is it normal for depression and anxiety to be such an expected part of life that it's pretty likely everyone you know has been through it by the time they're exiting their youth? What should be the happiest, healthiest, most energetic period of their lives?

I wonder sometimes what the constant beeps and the endless rapid-fire information does to our minds.

For all their poverty and strife, is there something about being able to see the stars at night, sit in silence even with others, or have the ebb of their life uninterrupted by bombastic headlines full of tragedy that makes them more able to just... be happy? Be human?

I wonder sometimes if we're really so much better at living than they are. And whether, as creatures of the mind, it's really "better" to be of sound bank account than of sound mind.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine told me about a study he had read. A sociologist had found that in some very primitive tribes, there is practically NO incidence of depression. He also found that there were 5 consistent factors in those tribes that seemed to contribute to that lack of depression:

1) Working or being outside in the sun a lot.
2) Being busy with productive work and activities. Little idle time.
3) Having lots of extended family nearby.
4) Socializing as a major form of "extracurricular activities" and a sense of community with those around them.
5) Eating a lot of fish.

If we look at these, it makes sense. The first and fifth, from a nutritional standpoint, have been proven to help one's mood. The others, from a psychological standpoint, also have been shown to help one's mood. In more "advanced" societies, we are often more isolated and distant from family, spend less and less time in social activities and more and more in solitary ones, work inside and work at jobs that are unfulfilling, and don't eat enough fish. It's interesting who advancements in technology and society as a whole has actually HARMED us, psychologically. That's why the meme "first world problem" is actually accurate.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Yeah, I actually agree with you, here. That was a pretty messed up thing to do to that guy.
Click to expand...

Talk to RR locomotive engineers who get forced to be part of a suicide by train scene.....it tends to screw them up a bit.

I feel for the chap.
 
MaggieD said:
Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Sad stuff Maggie.

I knew a young sailor assigned to the Sub Base in Groton who hung himself back in the early 80's. He was busted one pay grade at Capt's Mast and restricted to the base for 60 days for being UA. He told me prior to Capt's mast that he met a girl from NYC and took off for 10-11 days. (AWOL = UA) He was having a meltdown over his parents finding out. I knew he had gone to mast, but I didn't find out that he hung himself until I was asking around the Pro Shop at the base golf course. I played a lot of golf with the guy and never ever saw that coming.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
A friend of mine told me about a study he had read. A sociologist had found that in some very primitive tribes, there is practically NO incidence of depression. He also found that there were 5 consistent factors in those tribes that seemed to contribute to that lack of depression:

1) Working or being outside in the sun a lot.
2) Being busy with productive work and activities. Little idle time.
3) Having lots of extended family nearby.
4) Socializing as a major form of "extracurricular activities" and a sense of community with those around them.
5) Eating a lot of fish.

If we look at these, it makes sense. The first and fifth, from a nutritional standpoint, have been proven to help one's mood. The others, from a psychological standpoint, also have been shown to help one's mood. In more "advanced" societies, we are often more isolated and distant from family, spend less and less time in social activities and more and more in solitary ones, work inside and work at jobs that are unfulfilling, and don't eat enough fish. It's interesting who advancements in technology and society as a whole has actually HARMED us, psychologically. That's why the meme "first world problem" is actually accurate.
Click to expand...

That needs to be pared with the FACT that people tend to be very poor at understanding/predicting what will make them happy, and as well evidence that in societies the level of happiness tends to be pretty static, and is not much related to anything that is going on.....if things start going good people find a reason to be unhappy, if things go to crap they stay about as happy as they were before.

We dont understand this at all, about on par with understanding what we should eat, I think.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Talk to RR locomotive engineers who get forced to be part of a suicide by train scene.....it tends to screw them up a bit.

I feel for the chap.
Click to expand...

Me too. Very selfish of her to do it the way that she did. Thing is, when one is that mentally ill and in that much psychological pain, they aren't thinking about anything other than getting out of that pain. That's how intense it is. I'm not excusing her behavior. Just explaining it.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
That needs to be pared with the FACT that people tend to be very poor at understanding/predicting what will make them happy, and as well evidence that in societies the level of happiness tends to be pretty static, and is not much related to anything that is going on.....if things start going good people find a reason to be unhappy, if things go to crap they stay about as happy as they were before.

We dont understand this at all, about on par with understanding what we should eat, I think.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is pretty accurate. One of the most insightful things I ever heard was on an episode of Star Trek, the Original Series, said by Mr. Spock: Wanting is often much better than having.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
A friend of mine told me about a study he had read. A sociologist had found that in some very primitive tribes, there is practically NO incidence of depression. He also found that there were 5 consistent factors in those tribes that seemed to contribute to that lack of depression:

1) Working or being outside in the sun a lot.
2) Being busy with productive work and activities. Little idle time.
3) Having lots of extended family nearby.
4) Socializing as a major form of "extracurricular activities" and a sense of community with those around them.
5) Eating a lot of fish.

If we look at these, it makes sense. The first and fifth, from a nutritional standpoint, have been proven to help one's mood. The others, from a psychological standpoint, also have been shown to help one's mood. In more "advanced" societies, we are often more isolated and distant from family, spend less and less time in social activities and more and more in solitary ones, work inside and work at jobs that are unfulfilling, and don't eat enough fish. It's interesting who advancements in technology and society as a whole has actually HARMED us, psychologically. That's why the meme "first world problem" is actually accurate.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've read all kinds of stuff about this. I am someone who has maintained a pretty good "instinct" about what I need (I credit being one of the few millenials to grow up eating entirely home-cooked meals for that fact). Fish and other foods with fatty oils is one of my biggest cravings, and I have very strong, sudden urges that say "GO RUN AROUND IN A FIELD TODAY. GO. NOW." I rarely ever use my regular lights. My sleep schedule is very touchy, and I find that makes it worse. Whenever possible, I stick to natural light turning the day, and my desk lamp or candles at night, though I admit I'm not so good about turning off screens. Also, I've left behind depressing cubicle jobs for full-time crafting. I don't think that's a coincidence either.

I have to admit that as much as I love it, and as much as the reasons I chose it are still true, techy city living does take a toll on me. A lot of people in cities are profoundly lonely. I have been sometimes, although this is partly because of factors outside my control. Even if I'd stayed in MN, I had still lost my family, so that is what it is.

But it is absolutely striking how intolerant one becomes to all the noise after a few years. Some get anxious, some get angry, some get exhausted. I think it's a big part of what drives us to try to isolate ourselves. Really, what we seek is not isolation, but rather a less crazy level of constant input.

Me and my flatmate get really annoyed by all the kids screaming here. No one will be surprised to hear me say that, but my flatmate loves kids. She never felt like that when she lived further out, even though she was a nanny for families with multiple children. This is something pretty much all city people are sick of.

But then you look at it from the kid's perspective. I see people out with their infants at midnight. No joke. Babies are supposed to sleep, what, 16 hours a day? No wonder they're so cranky. Their parents won't let them sleep.

The constant input, lack of sun, lack of motion, lack of meaningful interaction, lack of proper diet, makes all of us cranky.
 
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SmokeAndMirrors said:
It's an interesting one. I was reading recently about how the happiest people in the world are, in fact, people in some developing countries, especially in South America.

I've wondered about that for a long time. I've seen all these documentaries in these poor places in the world, yet everyone smiles and talks to one another, and even strangers, with total ease. In most of the developed world, smiles are much more rare, people are colder, more nervous, and do everything they can to block out their awareness of the people around them.

When I was taking classes about psychology, we learned that there are some developing countries or tribes that actually have a much better success rate than the West when it comes to helping schizophrenics, despite that they often have limited access to therapy and medication. They do it through community. And things like depression are actually quite rare.

Clearly we have easier lives in many respects. I have a fridge full of food, no concerns about still having my roof next month or even next year, I have an education, and health care. I'm not going to downplay their struggles for a moment.

Those people often don't have any of those things. Yet they're probably happier than I am. And I'm not an unhappy person by the standards of the society in which I live. But the fact is, now headed steadily towards 30, I no longer know *anyone* who hasn't had a problem with depression and/or anxiety at some point in their lives. I certainly don't know anyone who hasn't felt alone, despite living in these vast inter-connected webs of people.

Is that normal?

Is it normal for depression and anxiety to be such an expected part of life that it's pretty likely everyone you know has been through it by the time they're exiting their youth? What should be the happiest, healthiest, most energetic period of their lives?

I wonder sometimes what the constant beeps and the endless rapid-fire information does to our minds.

For all their poverty and strife, is there something about being able to see the stars at night, sit in silence even with others, or have the ebb of their life uninterrupted by bombastic headlines full of tragedy that makes them more able to just... be happy? Be human?

I wonder sometimes if we're really so much better at living than they are. And whether, as creatures of the mind, it's really "better" to be of sound bank account than of sound mind.
Click to expand...



All good points, and I agree. I have been to many very poor countries, and found the same, people are warm, open and generous. I once ran out of gas in a remote area in Belize. Four teens came and pushed the car a few hundred meters to a friend's yard, where he friend syphoned some gas out of his car to get us on the road again. They declined the money I offered them, but wanted a picture taken of all of us together.

What I see in Mexico, the Caribbean etc. is many people simply sitting, thinking, people gathered in clumps talking. Here I see individuals texting while endangering lives, people in such a hurry they blow their car horn at pedestrians in a legal cross walk.

The answer, since the early 50's has been drugs, "mother's little helper" has been to throw drugs at it. Anti-depressants now outsell aspirin and ibuprophen, we're all ****ed up. And becoming more so. Now retired, I have had to teach myself to do nothing, which is a misnomer as you are actually resting the brain, letting it go where it wants. It is amazing how some things just gel and become clear. When we are "multi-tasking" we are not receiving, we don't get all the data, we are not at all self aware.

It is in retirement that I have learned that more than 80% of my hurrying, panicking etc. was entirely unnecessary, that risking my life to get a 2 minute item to air on time really didn't matter in the scheme of things. There is a saying in Polish "too soon old, too late smart."

That's us..
 
Fearandloathing said:
All good points, and I agree. I have been to many very poor countries, and found the same, people are warm, open and generous. I once ran out of gas in a remote area in Belize. Four teens came and pushed the car a few hundred meters to a friend's yard, where he friend syphoned some gas out of his car to get us on the road again. They declined the money I offered them, but wanted a picture taken of all of us together.

What I see in Mexico, the Caribbean etc. is many people simply sitting, thinking, people gathered in clumps talking. Here I see individuals texting while endangering lives, people in such a hurry they blow their car horn at pedestrians in a legal cross walk.

The answer, since the early 50's has been drugs, "mother's little helper" has been to throw drugs at it. Anti-depressants now outsell aspirin and ibuprophen, we're all ****ed up. And becoming more so. Now retired, I have had to teach myself to do nothing, which is a misnomer as you are actually resting the brain, letting it go where it wants. It is amazing how some things just gel and become clear. When we are "multi-tasking" we are not receiving, we don't get all the data, we are not at all self aware.

It is in retirement that I have learned that more than 80% of my hurrying, panicking etc. was entirely unnecessary, that risking my life to get a 2 minute item to air on time really didn't matter in the scheme of things. There is a saying in Polish "too soon old, too late smart."

That's us..
Click to expand...


As a student of Zen I am not shocked to find this, but it has most certainly been true. For instance I spent the better part of 4 decades trying to understand my father, who died in 1986, but less than a year into retirement it all came into focus for me.

Really good post.

:applaud
 
Cephus said:
Says the person who wants to force someone who doesn't want to live to live against their will.
Click to expand...

Many who are suicidal do not get the help needed.
Next- If a person is committed to killing themselves they find a way.

Cephus said:
Evolution in action. If she wants to die, let her die. Who cares?
Click to expand...
Clearly you do not support a person receiving help when they are suicidal.
As to who cares, fortunately we live in a society where the vast majority care.
Where they support help and assisting a person who is suicidal.
Clearly your opinion on this represents a tiny minority of society.
 
MaggieD said:
Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Weird for sure. She had a message no doubt and that "date" was extremely lucky. Mom must have this coming and it's a shame she didn't head it off. Suicide is an escape or a way to make bad things stop. I'm sure the rang employees are quite devastated by this and will look at people twice now.

I'm not a big fan of indoor ranges and I'm sure it only added to the macabre experience.
 
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