How I learned about ETHICITY vs. RACE...It was eye opening

RetiredNSmilin · Mar 15, 2016

RAMOSS said:
I find when people say 'You ahve to have a little faith', so often they are wrong when the facts come into light. As for a real bigfoot coming into light, gosh, yo uwould see people excited. But, then again, there have been so many fakes, and people get their money taken following a con man, I don't think it's likely.

Just because someone makes a story up doesn't mean it's true.

The oral traditions of the ancient people's of the world are NOT..."made up stories". They actually happened, and the facts of what happened are passed down articulately and faithfully from one special person to another.

There is a big difference about me telling you about a dunken night in the Ologapo, and a traditional FACTUAL story that has been preserved through oral tradition.

My story would have a lot of "oral" in it too, but not the same kind.

I can tell by your tone, you have ZERO respect for the passed down oral traditions of ancient cultures, so I will not discuss this subject with you anymore. Your disrespect is quite apparent.

It is this very same disrespect that makes science having to reassess their platform. Every so often they are proven completely and 100% WRONG, so they run back to the lab, play with their toys some more, then write a paper on how their calculations were off a bit. NEVER once admitting they had their head up their ass.

I gave three examples in a previous post, and see you ignored them completely. That is MY evidence of a closed mind. There are hundreds more examples, but showing them would be a waste of time.

RetiredNSmilin · Mar 15, 2016

longview said:
I have to agree, there are many cases of, "We don't know, what we don't know!"
If we have oral legends, that have some unusual details, they have as good a chance of being true as not.
If the detail is something totally unheard of, the odds improve on the side of the oral history.
Since there is no likelihood of the residence of Nevada circa 1000 BC ever having seen someone with red hair,
it would seem odd that they would add that to the story, unless it were true.

Thank you. Knowledge comes with an open mind and an open heart.

I akin oral history to a war story by a WW2 vet. They may be off on the dates, or a few obscure names, but you can take to the bank, when they tell you their PERSONAL story, and the names of their buddies that got blown to bits, or the small village they liberated. Those details are etched in their mind and are not going away.

The ancient oral traditions are exactly like that, but instead, it would be Grandpa sitting your father or mother down and making sure he got each and every detail correct, and they repeated it correctly back to him. Then after Grandpa passed, YOUR parents would sit YOU down and go over each and every detail until YOU got it right, and so forth through the generations.

Now, fast forward to this thread. How would you feel if someone said, hey you are wrong. The village you say your Grandpa liberated is not around anymore, and there is NO EVIDENCE of his story at all.

That does not mean it did not happen.

Lovebug · Mar 15, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
Indeed. Technically I am of a Mixed Race (around 50% Creole, which includes Black, Native-American and Italian - and the other half various slivers of different European races) but of European/Native-American ethnicity. I take pride in being more American than most Americans. It's a funny sort of irony.
Plays well into my cynical brand of Patriotism.

Cynicism, what kind of ethnicity is that?

I am not quite as mixed..although my head gets mixed up at times..., but my heritage is non white. I seem to be mistaken for lily white all the time.
Meh, who cares?

RetiredNSmilin · Mar 15, 2016

longview said:
I have to agree, there are many cases of, "We don't know, what we don't know!"
If we have oral legends, that have some unusual details, they have as good a chance of being true as not.
If the detail is something totally unheard of, the odds improve on the side of the oral history.
Since there is no likelihood of the residence of Nevada circa 1000 BC ever having seen someone with red hair,
it would seem odd that they would add that to the story, unless it were true.

The arrogance of science is sometimes embarrassing to people with common sense.

SCENE:
Madagascar coast, 1535...Locals catching and eating these really yummy big scary looking fish right off their coast.
Fast Forward, 1935...Scientists say, Hey, WE...and only WE...DISCOVERED these prehistoric fish the western world thought went extinct 200 million years ago. Ain't we just the greatest!!!!
Locals looking at them and wondering what all the fuss is about, WE have been eating these damned scary fish for the last 400 years. Eating his fish on a plant leaf thought to be extinct for 300 million years. Wipes his ass with it after he is done and motions for scientists to come "discover" what he just did.

RAMOSS · Mar 15, 2016

Lovebug said:
Cynicism, what kind of ethnicity is that?
I am not quite as mixed..although my head gets mixed up at times..., but my heritage is non white. I seem to be mistaken for lily white all the time.
Meh, who cares?

It really doesn't matter, as long as you get identified as human.

Moot · Mar 17, 2016

Sweden said:
There we have it. Agreement at last. Race is a 'cultural concept' with no more scientific justification or underpinning than the latest artistic fad. Upon this thing which has been decided on a whim rests a great tower of public policy. No wonder that the tower is tottering and bits keep falling off it.

If you want to see how 'race' doesn't work look at President Obama who has been shoehorned into an imaginary 'black race' a million times. Whereas the reality is that he is a man of both European and African ethnic heritage, culturally influenced by both.

With regard to South Africa I do not think that the groups have a neatly defined cultural identity. I would start by calling 'White Africans', 'Black Africans' and 'Asian Africans' people. One from each group that are, say, university lecturers would culturally be almost indistinguishable. While two 'black' South Africans with different educational backgrounds, one Zulu ethnicity and the other of Tswana ethnicity might be culturally very different.

So the cultural concept which is 'race' should be junked. Now.

Yes, it should be junked. In Latin America it's pointless to ask someone's race on a questionnaire or application because the entire continent is so mixed and what one mixed ethnic group might consider black or dark skinned, another group doesn't. So they don't even ask and racial tensions are practically non existent. The US census is finding it more difficult to define a race as well...it's so confusing IE: are you Caucasian or a white non-Hispanic? I think a lot of people might've changed their race to match their ethnicity or just guessed because they weren't sure what their race is as it was defined by the census. So now there is debate whether to ask the question at all.

mbig · Mar 17, 2016

PoS said:
Well said. Science does not recognize race at all, its a cultural construct. There just isnt enough differences between people of varying skin colors to classify them as a sub race in any way.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/01/racism-science-human-genomes-darwin

You're tried that Social commentator article from Left-wing Guardian before.
It's still BS.
The FOURTH Time (3 Unanswered)

http://www.debatepolitics.com/scien...3-pseudo-science-racism-3.html#post1064576411

mbig said:
That's funny.
You couldn't answer me just a Week ago (and still can't) when I posted why/HOW there IS Race.
So you found Lefty Guardian :^) INSTEAD.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/history/208449-southern-europeans-white-6.html#post1064550469
mbig to PoS

You clearly don't understand Race at all.
1. You confuse Nationality with race, as if everyone living in 'China' (or other locales) must be Han Chinese and not the myriad of people's in Western China!
1a. You post pictures of exceptions of blond/'white' girls living in that Crossroads/Silk-route/Tarim Basin/Central Asia.. region as [fallacious] 'proof'.

2. But In a room with 300 Naked People: 100 Pygmies, 100 Scandinavians, and 100 Northeast Asians (Japanese etc)..
what do you suppose your rate of error would be in telling them apart?
Why?

3. Race is not just about Hair or eye Color!..
Race is a whole SET of features including stature, Skeletal and muscular structure/facial features, Hair coverage and Texture of it..., Blood components, disease susceptibility, etc.

So that Forensic anthropologists are More accurate telling apart Races from Skeletal Remains than from seeing any 'Color'!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/145843-many-human-races-exist-8.html#post1061264044
and they do it every day.

In fact, the two genetically Furthest apart Races are people of 'color', subsaharan africans and Australian aboriginals, due to geographical separation and Isolation of the latter.

So that with those above 3 Races, if a pygmy (or NE Asian) was an Albino, he would Still be Easily distinguished from the other two by the SETS of features that make up race.

Race is.. morphological difference, caused by genetic difference/adaptation, in turn caused by geographic/evolutionary separation.
It/they can be divided into as little as 3, or as many as 30, or perhaps a multiple of that. (Coyne, Cavalli-Sforza, etc)
The point being though, they are Distinguishable by SETS of features which are determined by SETS of GENETIC Loci.

4. And btw, if you send your Blood and a few bucks into ("Racist") National Geo's Genographic Project, they'll tell you what Percent of each indigenous people/RACE (11) you are.

5. Many animals have LESS morphological and genetic separation than humans, but Do have Race, aka subspecies, Including Chimps and Gorillas. The latter even has 2 separate species.
The Only reasons H sapien doesn't have further designation is 100% Political, NOT Scientific/Taxonomic.

6. Aside from one or two people here, virtually NO one has any understanding of Genetics/Speciation/evolution.
Even the considerably more who have Some understanding of/or say they believe in, Evolution, are Blinded by PC political views.

"Liberal Creationism" (Slate mag, another story)
That is, Like YECers who deny ANY evolution, Liberal Creationists demand it stopped 100,000-200,000 YEARS ago with the appearance of H Sapiens!'
Yes..
Scores of other geographically separated species kept evolving into many other subspecies, but Humans? DON'T YOU DARE say it!
"Racists"!
That constitutes about Half the mindless people who populate this board...who even calls people who criticize Islam- a Religion -"Racists".. and knows NOTHING about any science.

7. Pygmy Mammoths, a separate Specie, evolved from Mammoths in just 30,000 years from Island Isolation.
Pygmy mammoth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BUT, Whoa to he who points out Australian Aboriginals did also into the even smaller/more easy Subspecie, and had much More time! Similarly other groups evolved.

8. I also suggest https://www.google.com/webhp?source...th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=10,000 year explosion&es_th=1
ie, The 10,000 Year Explosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
which explains how Evolution of Humans was greatly Accelerated in the last 10,000 years [alone] due to agriculture/cities etc, and some groups got 'left behind'.. by this.
Due to the above, humans have Evolved/Separated even faster than other species.

/Primer

UNanswered

Talk about a One Trick Pony!

mbig · Mar 17, 2016

Harry Guerrilla said:
That post was largely incorrect.
An example,
Tiny Genetic Differences between Humans and Other Primates Pervade the Genome - Scientific American
You wouldn't think we should stop defining species, would you?

Edit add: It's a bit more complicated than what was posted.
There are definite genetic differences between regional populations.

The Reality of Human Differences by Sarich and Miele

Sarrich and Miele:
"... What is Astounding is that there is Greater morphological and Genetic distance between human Races than there are between the two Chimpanzee Species or between Gorilla Species/Subspecies. That is, the differences between human Races are Real, they are Substantial, and they did not take millions of years to diverge. Humans, rapidly occupying every available niche after leaving Africa 50,000 years ago, has been under enormous pressure to adapt. To do this meant selection for morphological, pharmacogenetic, behavioral, and cognitive traits. Not only are there many human races, but there are at least as many races as there are ecological niches, and only humans can create their own niches with forethought.
What this means is not only Are there human Races, but humans have evolved uniquely to alter there own cultures or ecologies, further increasing unique selection pressures...."

And I might add, there are many species with Less morphological and genetic difference that do get delimited as races/subspecies. The 4 Chimp Subspecies have about the same difference as Our groups/races do.
Gorillas have Two Species, and each have subspecies, and they, along with chimps, live in a Tiny area of West Africa with less selective pressures than many human groups/Races.
Among the 37 subspecies of Gray Wolves (15 in North America alone) there is Less Genetic and Morphological difference among some than there is between human races.
Many more examples.

Second [of scores], if you send your Blood (I could swear that's biological) into ie, NatGeo's Geongraphic project, they'll tell you what Percent of each 'indigenous people'/RACE you are (11).

The problem is most people have No Zoological or Taxonomic frame of reference to debate this, just PC politics.

mbig · Mar 17, 2016

Corr'n
The excerpt from my above article should read ""...What is Astounding is that there is Greater morphological distance between human Races than there are between the two Chimpanzee Species or between Gorilla Species/Subspecies...
I mistakenly inserted part of the excerpt quote with "and genetic" instead of/along with my parts of the post.

How I learned about ETHICITY vs. RACE...It was eye opening

RetiredNSmilin

RetiredNSmilin

Lovebug

Be humble and kind

RetiredNSmilin

RAMOSS

Moot

mbig

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mbig

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mbig

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