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Well that was f'ing depressing.

Aunt Spiker

Aunt Spiker

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We went to Hallmark to buy a few ornaments for Xmas gifts - and they had a new Star Trek ornament. The scene from Star Trek III where Spock dies. (The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many).

And it even played the dialogue from that scene.

I had to tell my husband to shut it up.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khanâ„¢ Mr. Spock and Captain Kirk The Needs of the Many Ornament - Keepsake Ornaments - Hallmark

What in the HELL! That's the single most depressing ornament to ever walk the face of this earth. I get the sentiment - but no thanks. I don't need SAD all over my tree. I have spock and he's saluting - not dying. my existing ST-tos ornaments don't make me cry!
 
That's one of my most hated lines from Star Trek myself, as much as a fan of that Show I am.

Basically put, it is a very faulty statement, and is indicative of a lack of knowledge of things like inalienable rights, civil liberties, and individual rights.

Because basically, it means that, the majority rules and when the majority rules, that is mob rule.

While it is pure Democracy, mob rule is just a bad thing all around.

Because the minorities and disenfranchised would never get anywhere.

for example, if the majority rules in America all the time, then we would have no handicapped parking spots. That would be their needs. When the issue was first brought up, there was a lot of resistance based on fear and ignorance of the general public. They simply did not see the handicapped shopping in public stores because seeing them is scary vusiness.

now, society has certain needs too, and i don't begrude that.

But i balk at placing society's needs above the individual.
And here's why;

You can not have a society without the consent of the individual.

So, that's why i absolutely loath that saying.
 
Ancient Herald said:
That's one of my most hated lines from Star Trek myself, as much as a fan of that Show I am.

Basically put, it is a very faulty statement, and is indicative of a lack of knowledge of things like inalienable rights, civil liberties, and individual rights.

Because basically, it means that, the majority rules and when the majority rules, that is mob rule.

While it is pure Democracy, mob rule is just a bad thing all around.

Because the minorities and disenfranchised would never get anywhere.

for example, if the majority rules in America all the time, then we would have no handicapped parking spots. That would be their needs. When the issue was first brought up, there was a lot of resistance based on fear and ignorance of the general public. They simply did not see the handicapped shopping in public stores because seeing them is scary vusiness.

now, society has certain needs too, and i don't begrude that.

But i balk at placing society's needs above the individual.
And here's why;

You can not have a society without the consent of the individual.

So, that's why i absolutely loath that saying.
Click to expand...

I guess you totally missed the moral of the movie. It was about the needs of the one outweighing the needs of the many--friendship.
 
Kinda sad but once you watch III it's not that bad. Definitely an ornament I'm going to have to buy now
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I guess you totally missed the moral of the movie. It was about the needs of the one outweighing the needs of the many--friendship.
Click to expand...

No, I did not.

And that was the focus of Star Trek III, not II.

The needs of the one, that is.

Star Trek II was a very powerful tale of friendship and sacrifice for that friendship, and so was III. It was also a powerful tale of conflict between two enemies,a s pathetic as Khan was.

And no other Star Trek movies have captured that feel, well, at least for me.

All I was saying is that I jsut don't like that line.
 
Ancient Herald said:
That's one of my most hated lines from Star Trek myself, as much as a fan of that Show I am.

Basically put, it is a very faulty statement, and is indicative of a lack of knowledge of things like inalienable rights, civil liberties, and individual rights.

Because basically, it means that, the majority rules and when the majority rules, that is mob rule.

While it is pure Democracy, mob rule is just a bad thing all around.

Because the minorities and disenfranchised would never get anywhere.

for example, if the majority rules in America all the time, then we would have no handicapped parking spots. That would be their needs. When the issue was first brought up, there was a lot of resistance based on fear and ignorance of the general public. They simply did not see the handicapped shopping in public stores because seeing them is scary vusiness.

now, society has certain needs too, and i don't begrude that.

But i balk at placing society's needs above the individual.
And here's why;

You can not have a society without the consent of the individual.

So, that's why i absolutely loath that saying.
Click to expand...

Idk, Spock volunteered his own life, he was not forced, so i wouldn't call it mob rule.

Spock simply recognized that the ship full of people, which includes his own life, was more important than his life, alone.

Individual consent was given. If you recall, Spock had to incapacitate Bones in order to enter the radiation chamber. Bones was trying to stop him. Spock did his vulcan nerve pinch thing to knock him out, claiming there was no time to explain (as he had to get the warp drive operational before the explosion).
 
Crovax said:
Kinda sad but once you watch III it's not that bad. Definitely an ornament I'm going to have to buy now
Click to expand...

I cry - like a baby - every time I watch that scene.

And I can't watch II without immediately watching III (and of course I have to follow it with IV - so it just turns into a marathon) purely because of Spock. And now it's even more tragically painful.
 
Absentglare said:
Idk, Spock volunteered his own life, he was not forced, so i wouldn't call it mob rule.

Spock simply recognized that the ship full of people, which includes his own life, was more important than his life, alone.

Individual consent was given. If you recall, Spock had to incapacitate Bones in order to enter the radiation chamber. Bones was trying to stop him. Spock did his vulcan nerve pinch thing to knock him out, claiming there was no time to explain (as he had to get the warp drive operational before the explosion).
Click to expand...

He did volunteer, but it was based on the needs of the many. he sacrificed his own life to save the ship and its crew.

However, my comments were directed at the line itself, not what Spock did in the movie.
 
Ancient Herald said:
He did volunteer, but it was based on the needs of the many. he sacrificed his own life to save the ship and its crew.

However, my comments were directed at the line itself, not what Spock did in the movie.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense, i understand. The line doesn't really reflect what happened or what should happen.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I cry - like a baby - every time I watch that scene.

And I can't watch II without immediately watching III (and of course I have to follow it with IV - so it just turns into a marathon) purely because of Spock. And now it's even more tragically painful.
Click to expand...

Yeah I always watch II, III and IV in a row. Probably my favorite of all trek. I'm gonna have to watch those tomorrow now.
 
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